Cue the guy from Cool Hand Luke "What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

The internet is sometimes the worst place to try and resolve a misunderstanding, simply because our English language depends so much on nuance, inflection, body language, and the like. It doesn't look like this is going to be resolved well, and I hate that.

Daniel, I'll let the forum decide whether a reasonable person would have interpreted your instructions to not email you in an attempt to argue as allowing me to respond privately. I felt you had closed that door so I posted a precise, accurate, fair account with an admission that I could have triggered it with an ill-chosen word. But I stand by the meaning of that word. My perception is what it is.

As to the rest of what you wrote, what can I say?

You probably deal with thousands of customers. There's only me to provide laptops for the 18 kids in my 3rd grade classroom out of my pocket (my salary is a public record) and the generosity of some people on here. So I have purchased from you when your prices were best, and gotten a quote and not purchased when your prices were not. Since you are a business not another individual on the forum, I probably wasn't as good at letting you know whether I was going to purchase or not as I could have been. You never emailed a followup so didn't think it was a big deal. There were three occasions of that according to my records. I have copies of each and every email dating back to 4/11 when you sent me some helpful info on how to be a godly teacher.

Yes on one order that I thought would take 3 days took 8 (ordered 11/12/11 delivered 11/22/11) and I wrote and asked where it was. Again, if you are a business and I am told 3 day shipping (which you admitted was your normal behavior) and it's 5 or 6 I will email. Not "frantically", but I did email. My orders were small, but they matter. Each part got another laptop in a kid's hands. I had "low" kids other teachers had given up on. But I was never "frantic" and there was never an "or else."

I live a great life here 12 minutes from the beach in Destin. My wife of 38 years teaches kids piano. We're about to have our first grandchild - I have two great sons. We have two Airedales we rescued. I teach 3rd grade on base and get to serve military families and also pastor a small church of 50 people that feeds the hungry, drills wells in Africa (we're on our third), supports orphans in Uganda, buys HIV meds, provides school supplies to Title 1 kids, works to end the sex trade, helps out at a women's shelter, and tries to live together in peace.

We spent two weeks in New Orleans this summer where I finally found the perfect shrimp poboy and pecan praline. Just got back from an anniversary dinner with some friends who celebrated their 44th tonight. Everyone around the table had been married at least 38 years - yes we were the "young" couple there.

I'll let the folks here decide who is stressed, irrational, and has high blood pressure. My goodness.

And I'll retire the word "off-putting." For sure.

David

Priority Mail takes 2 to 3 days, guaranteed. When you pay for First Class Mail shipping for a small, inexpensive item, we email you and tell you it has been shipped First CLass Mail. So I wonder how frantically emailing me, and it was frantic/disturbing by the way, can help to expedite USPS First Class Mail. The item was shipped within 24 hours, IIRC, and a Tracking # was emailed to the buyer. The package was handed over to USPS. The rest lies in the hand of the USPS, as Tracking showed the item as "accepted" by USPS and showing progress. So to harass me for something out of my control, is indeed irrational behavior.

You may pretend to be well-mannered and try to cover your tracks with a long resume of things you have done in the past, but your emails and poor communication recently reveal something is indeed very wrong emotionally, psychologically and spiritually. And I will continue to pray for you. What counts is a not a momentary "show" here on the Forum, but what is truly in your heart. My stand when being attacked by the "Lions" is not against you personally but against Satan who is obviously afflicting your mind. I pity you as a very mixed-up person. Once again, I offer my services to pray and Anoint with Oil in the Name of the Lord Jesus and drive out demonic spirits. I have done this and brought great relief and Peace into the souls of many, many afflicted ones. So I can minister to your spiritual needs, but I cannot do business with someone who will falsely accuse me and who has a short fuse.

Anyone who has had extended dealings with me knows I am absolutely well-mannered, have the patience of an angel, and go the extra mile as a Christian. Even you agree in your first post above:



In this day and age of Internet fraud, and scams of all sorts, any honest seller must protect himself from those who may try to take advantage of him. So for you to attack me publicly because you feel I rejected you in some way is very immature. For someone who claims to have so much experience dealing kindly with people, you have not re-payed the many positive transactions and quality merchandise I shipped you with kindness. Not to mention so much time I spent researching items on your behalf when you were about to purchase the wrong part number, once again going the extra mile as a Christian and saving you from a lot of trouble. Instead you have attacked me most unjustly. May the Lord, who is ever-faithful and just, look upon this.

And the word "off-putting" was just another clever and deceptive way to insult while still pretending to be a nice guy. According to the Free Online Dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/off-putting

"off-putting: Tending to disconcert or repel. Brit informal: disconcerting or disturbing. off-putting - causing annoyance or repugnance; "an off-putting remark"

My, my. Really? Is my little business and our honest and upfront, transparent approach to helping our buyers all of those bad things? As a teacher with a good command of the English language, you expressed exactly what you wanted to express. Don't try to soften it up now. Your actions in sending me such a reply and in posting against me here in the Negative Feedback thread speak for themselves. But you are not hurting me, I am used to being treated unfairly. You are hurting some low-income, better known as poor kids in the inner-city, better known as slums, of New York City. Shame on you ...

We sell these items on the Thinkpad Forum to raise funds for work among disenfranchised, low-income families, new immigrants, at-risk youth, etc. The work is often difficult and dangerous. I have almost had my face slashed with a box cutter, been the only source of protection, (besides God's angels of course), for a group of elementary age school children during a shootout , and lots of other fun things I could tell you about. Whatever God Blesses me with in my own work I share with those in need. I am a self-supported ambassador for Christ, and do not have a big church sending me funds.

A friend in Northern India (where there are a lot of blackouts and floods recently) shared this story with me. Helps me to keep a proper perspective about money: "A little girl and her family living in a slum in Calcutta were about to go to sleep for the night. They were a homeless family living out in the streets. The little girl began to say her prayers. As she did, her mother could hear her saying, 'God, please help the poor people who have no place to sleep. It will be cold tonight.' Her mother did not say anything at first. Finally, she could not contain herself any longer. 'Child,' she said, 'I don't want you to feel bad. But we are very poor ourselves.' 'Oh no, mommy,' the little girl cried out, 'we are not poor. We have a cardboard to sleep on. We even have an extra cardboard to keep us warm tonight. What about those people who don't have a cardboard ' "

Daniel,
the little YP/ teacher in NYC.
"We had pizza in the Lion's Den "

Okay, now that everything that needs to be said has been said about this matter, just drop it here and now.

@ Daniel..

from reading the first post from dwilsonfl my thoughts were these:

your terms seem a bit terse but not unreasonable.. not unreasonable since most of what you are trying to protect yourself from i have personally been the victim of when selling in the far past..

now, dwilsonfl's reply was reasonable and his remark that your terms seem harsh when he wrote:
does NOT seem to me to be anything more than just that..
your terms are terse and could be construed to mean that you do not trust anyone at all..

now, i see that dwilsonfl has been a forum member since 2006 so that alone should have some value..
you have been a member since 2011..

THEN you go on to be so touchy and easily offended and, waving your bible, you suddenly and with little or no real cause refuse to do business with what I see to be a valued and apparently honest forum member..

I would, if i were you, be cautious so as NOT to get a reputation as being an unreasonable, easily offended person but rather i would hope that you would be more courtly and either take a small critique of your "TERMS, etc" with a smile and perhaps modify them to be less blunt..

I would also hope that you will rethink your position and maybe do a rewrite of your several responses to dwilsonfl's post..
OH!, no, i have not read all your many many replies, above..

EDIT:

now having scanned a few of daniels reply lines i think the term "Cool your jets" applies here..
please be a little more humble and less.... err... well, can't think of the word i want but i think you get the idea.. maybe the term "HISSY-FIT" is appropriate..

cordially and with respect,

There is nothing wrong with me underscoring the fact that I follow Christian principles and have a Biblical foundation in my business. I am proud of who I am as a Christian, and others can be proud of who or what they may be. People curse and swear on this Forum all the time, use foul terms, references and quote vain philosophies. I follow and quote the Bible. If that bothers anyone, then perhaps they are the one who is touchy.

This exchange, by the way, was with someone (dwilsonfl) who also labels himself as a Christian. So that context is important. I will freely use Christian terminology in my vocabulary and in all of my conversations. I will quote the Holy Scriptures and mention the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ in a free country until they throw me to the Lions. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If I am censured for being a Christian, very well. That is your right as the Forum owner.

I have done nothing wrong in explaining my side of the story. I am the party here who has been attacked and treated unfairly. If someone attacks me, I will defend myself in the Power of Christ. I will stand up for my rights.

I HOPE THIS POST IS NOT DELETED AND THERE IS A PUBLIC RECORD OF THESE HAPPENINGS FOR THE WORLD TO SEE. If someone's reputation and integrity are attacked, they should have the right to tell their side of the story. That is the American way.

*** AS OF THIS MOMENT, I WILL BEGIN WITHDRAWING ALL OF MY FOR SALE LISTINGS FROM THIS FORUM ***

I will work through the night, as I am used to doing.

Thank you for the time you have allowed me on your Forum.
With all respect,
Daniel,
the little YP/ Teacher in NYC.
" We had pizza in the Lion's Den "

Do we really have to fight out personal vendettas (or crusades) on this forum?
I suggest we delete the whole "Negative feedbacks" thread!

This thread serves its purpose, I think. People should have a place to complain about what they deem to be unpleasant/unfair transactions. If you delete this thread, you will just end up with many people starting new threads every time they have a problem.

Now, deleting some posts that get too personal may be a good idea from time to time, as is deleting certain posts pertaining to a particular transaction, in case the issue has been resolved and both sides agree. But in any situation it has to be done with care so as not deprive anyone of a fair representation of his/her claims, and not withhold from the other forum members information which may be important to them for potential future transactions.

My two cents.

I think if we keep this section it will need some strict guidelines. We just lost a seller that brought a wide variety of goods to share with the community, and it was over something really silly. Granted he did perhaps overreact, but I can certainly understand the desire to defend one's position. I'm also beginning to see the wisdom of the ebay system that allows only a single very short sentence when posting feedback. Most of us that offer parts and systems here on an ongoing basis do so from a genuine desire to share with the community and sometimes things can go wrong, but I don't think anyone likes reading long drawn out posts filled with supposition, perceived attitudes, and posturing.


I also hope Daniel will reconsider and return to our forum where many members have benefited from what he has had to offer.

It was silly, and I'm still shaking my head about it.

I try to buy first here to help other Thinkpad enthusiasts out, whether cottage businessperson or hobbyist. Part of the reason for that is the trust you build up over time that you don't get with most eBay sellers.

Sorry if I marred which for me has been a great experience for several years with clumsy communication. But coming to this thread having been denied direct email and PM was, I thought, the right thing to do for a quick and positive resolution. Mea culpa.

David

Im sorry to see that this arguement has happened. I truly hope that both parties involved can resolve there differences of OPINION and come back together in appreciating the almighty THINKPAD. It seams like both of you are literally picking each other apart for no reason, and that honestly saddens me. Stuff happens in the personal world that can totally have an effect on shipping delays, lack of communication and temperament. We forgive! What are you both going to say to the younger generation of Thinkpad enthusiasts like myself when there is no where to go?

I thought the point of this forum was to come together for one purpose, Thinkpads.

-Chris

Agreed. That being said, if one sells often enough for a prolonged period of time, they will find themselves in this thread sooner or later, for one reason or another.

dwilsonfl wrote:



Indeed. And it's not just the English language per se...I lost a highly valued repeat customer of mine some time ago due to the simplest of miscommunications that would've never had occured had we been speaking face to face...unfortunately, we were not.

Most of the people reading the very beginning of this unfortunate thread five years ago thought that I would've never had survived the spat that occurred between scosgt and myself at the time. Those amongst you who joined at a later date have no clue how ugly it got, since most of the posts - along with a whole another thread - got deleted.

And I wouldn't have survived, if it were not for Bill Morrow himself, who had the wisdom to look behind all the fury-rage-anger and understand the essence of the problem. Communication breakdown, as Led Zeppelin would have it.

One of the valuable lessons that I had learned from the debacle in question was to take a deep breath, count to ten (or ten thousand if needed) and try to understand what the person on the other end of the dispute is trying to tell me instead of shooting from the hip.

If you know anything about the business that you're trying to run, you'll spot a scammer from a mile away. And they're easy to get rid of, since they don't show up often in this neck of the woods.

However, if you're dealing with someone - be it a buyer or a seller - who you've dealt with before and things aren't going the way they're supposed to, just drop the issue at hand in the most polite of manners. You never know what the other guy/gal is going through. We're all entitled to less-than-perfect days. As well as to a benefit of a doubt.

My $0.02 only...

well, c'est laVie..

waving your bible was not said with disrespect..

also, please, point to such cursing.. we do not allow it, period..

and finally, daniel, someone recently brought this to my attention and i now cordially present it to you..

"A gentle answer turns away wrath" (proverbs 15:1)

and i suggest that you way overreacted with mr. wilson and some others, whose names i have forgot..

pleasant journey..

Not reading all the "rants" and "raves" that have preceded this post, it seems we should just move on.

I really enjoy this Forum and the people that populate it. Intelligent and friendly human beings. We say what's on our minds. And we have common goals.

I can appreciate that. But there comes a time when we should just call it quits, end it, and start over again.

Life's too short. Right or wrong isn't always the final say. Laptops are just things. It's people that matters..

Let's get on with the rest of our lives. And enjoy.............

Ron

I believe this thread is still helpful in providing the originally stated purpose of being able to leave feedback if/when something goes wrong on a deal with another forum member. This latest case shows how helpful it can be to maintain communications with the other party.

My feelings exactly. Which is why I went on record with Bill that this exchange should remain in place. In my opinion, one of the best things you can do when deciding about a potential eBay seller is to peruse their feedback and look at all of the neutral and negative postings, paying attention to how the seller reacts to the problem with the transaction. Seeing the seller leave responses like "buyer is an idiot" to all of their negative feedback gives you a good insight on how they might act with any problem you could have.

That's not entirely true. Daniel left his email addresses in most of his postings so whoever wishes to deal with him can still do so. He had also posted his web site address a few times.

Your tirades against "dwilsonfl" are still there, as are your feedbacks in the Positive thread, so stop whining!

Hi Daniel,

To you it seems as if you were simply defending yourself against a false accusation.

To someone else it may seem as if you responded to slight criticism with over-the-top hostility and unfounded personal attacks.

All posts by both you and David Wilson are still here. Do you want to ask a hundred people to give their opinions on how the situation looks to them?

Daniel, I say this with the utmost respect, and I think most if not all will agree with me that you over-reacted to the negative feedback. I can't speak for the forum administration, but I suspect the post would have been deleted since it didn't involve a sale, but this forum always seems to act on these things after much deliberation, which is a good thing. I think if you limited yourself to one post, simply saying that there was no purchase related to this post and if there was, you would offer a refund, and it probably would have been removed.

You and I both know the Bible teaches us to be humble, and this is something that our "sin nature" won't easily accept, but I think whether or not you decide to continue to sell here, the best thing to do is apologize for your reaction. Be humble in Christ and show some of His Love to your brothers and sisters... make friends with all involved, regardless of your intentions to be a part of this forum or not.

I know all to well how easy it is to get stressed out and I've been known to overreact myself, but if you take a deep breath and remember this...

WWJD (I know you will understand what this means, the rest can use google)

I really hope we can all get over this and be friends again, and if you ever need to talk you have my email

Daniel, you need to let it go and just move on.

I think that your speculations on dwilsonfl's personal and spiritual character were inappropriate. They did not help your cause and only exacerbated the problem.

What's done is done. Put this sorry affair behind you and move one. I am sure that a lot of people will continue to buy from you.

For some reason, I'm still following this thread....

Yes, as I said a little while ago, closure and let's get on.....

I agree also that peolpe will still buy from Daniel, though I have a very hard time reading and figuring out what's sold, what you're getting in and what's sold.. Just a little confusing for these old eyes...

Ron

just so you guys all know whats going on..

since daniel chose to sneak back without permission or asking for his account to be reactivated and make more of a mess for cleanup, i moved all thinkpad lover2 posts out of sight..

personally, it looks to me like daniel kind of went off the rails.. got himsepf into a snit and then decided not only to punish his erstwhile customer but every forum member, by taking himself off the forum (and i imagine into a corner to sulk)..

so, he has been further banned unless and until there is some sign of sanity returning..
all this is only my opinion and carries no further weight than that..

it should be also known that it is the policy for commercial sellers to kick in a tiny bit when they make money by selling here.. daniel never did..

I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post this, but I wanted to share my experience with the community here. Mods feel free to move/delete this if I've misplaced it.

In brief I'd say this, be careful buying on eBay (duh maybe, but read on). Even though they harp on their buyer protection, and from personal experience have seen they almost always rule against the seller, it is far from a guarantee.

A while back I won an auction for a X230 that was said to be in "mint" condition and was stated quite clearly as having an IPS/Premium display. After quite literally a month delay (during which I had opened a case, hoping to just get my $ back as I needed a new machine) the seller finally shipped it which closed that case automatically. When I at last received it there were clear signs of some heavy use, and it was certainly not IPS. I immediately opened a new case. From what I had heard of eBay's case resolution before I thought I would be fine, but to my surprise they ruled in the seller's favor a few days later.

At this point my only recourse was to actually call customer support and attempt an appeal, where I was met with some verbal acrobatics I'm not sure I even understand enough to repeat here. The rep admitted the seller likely copied the description from another listing, but because the IPS display was a "possible configuration for the laptop" it was still acceptable. Similarly he said my condition complaint was unfounded as at this point it was "possible the laptop is not in it's original listed condition".

Doesn't make sense to you? Me neither, but now I'm stuck with it. I've had probably 99% positive experiences buying/selling on eBay, but I'd still encourage the community here to exercise caution and not put too much faith in eBay to back you up. This whole experience has wasted a lot of my time, and (as a relatively poor student) having $600 I had set aside for a new computer more or less "locked up" for 1.5 months has been a pain.

That's very surprising. I've never lost a Paypal/eBay dispute. I'm curious, what was their reasoning behind the decision. If you paid with a credit card that might offer you some recourse.

Very surprising indeed. Condition aside, but the configuration mismatch (IPS vs non-IPS) is a clear case of "item not as described". Whether an honest mistake, or an intentional misinformation makes no difference.

@Atreides, it would probably do us more good if you let us know who the eBay seller was, rather just a warning about eBay in general. Still surprising, though, that your "not as described" claim was taken so lightly.

I've only opened a handful before and likewise have never had unfavorable results, usually the seller is eager to resolve any issue. Customer support basically said the condition was irrelevant because it was so long after the auction (the seller took forever to send it, so it arrived while I was on vacation), and there was no way I could prove a "niche" feature like IPS was present. They said the seller listed the item "to the best of their knowledge", which I thought was absurd. Unfortunately I paid with straight PayPal, but at this point I think I'm just going to resell it and hope to break even.



Sorry, I should have done that first. Though it's a small seller and I doubt anyone would be buying from him now.

Seller: http://myworld.ebay.com/emirgor/&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2754

In my defense he only had one negative when I won the auction.