How far back do coffee resistant keyboards go? Thinking used

[bbmiller]

Hello
I have just joined this forum because the ThinkPad was coming up as having a spill resistant keyboard and I have ruined keyboards that way I use on my one desktop computer. So how far does this feature go back in the ThinkPad line of laptops. I have been searching eBay to buy a used laptop, but I need more research in this area before I go ahead and choose a ThinkPad. I do not want to spend much money so an oldie could be a goodie if it meets my requirements. I am also wondering the spill resistance include the included pointer devices?

[ZaZ]

It's spill resistant, up to three ounces I believe, though less can do serious damage if it hits it the right way. If you're getting an oldie, it's probably not a big deal as replacement parts are cheap and older ThinkPads are easy to work on unlike the new ones.

[rkawakami]

Welcome to thinkpads.com!

I believe that the first systems that had dedicated drain holes was the T40 series (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). Spilled liquid is supposed to be channeled by the keyboard so that it drains out through the bottom of the case via the hole(s). I've never had the opportunity to test this out however. My guess is that the Trackpoint is just as resistant to liquid damage as any one of the individual keys; meaning that if any liquid gets through the rubber seals or whatever barriers exist on the Trackpoint assembly, you're probably better off replacing the entire keyboard.

You didn't mention exactly what constitutes an "oldie", nor what your budget is. As a point of reference, I am currently running a recovery disk set on my first T410 system (2522-25U). It came with everything except a hard drive and AC adapter (i5 2.53Ghz 4GB, WXGA+ screen, Intel graphics, DVDRW, Bluetooth) for $145 (shipped) from eBay. I threw in a spare 320GB 7200 drive ($33) and if you include the cost of the recovery disk set ($36), then I spent a total of $214 for this setup. A second T410 is on its way to me, but that one is ready to go out of the box (2522-CD5; i5 2.4Ghz, 4GB, 320GB, WXGA+, nVIDIA, DVDRW, Bluetooth, camera) for $148.49. There have literally been hundreds of T410 systems recently sold on eBay, many fully loaded, for less than $250.

You also haven't told us what type of system you are looking for (desktop replacement, road warrior, gaming, etc.). If a T410 is too big, then you might want to look at the X200 systems. Or if the size of the T410 is about right, but you want a thinner, lighter system, then maybe an X300 is more suitable.

ref: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111414033302
ref: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380957937590

[bbmiller]

Welcome to thinkpads.com!
There have literally been hundreds of T410 systems recently sold on eBay, many fully loaded, for less than $250.

You also haven't told us what type of system you are looking for (desktop replacement, road warrior, gaming, etc.). If a T410 is too big, then you might want to look at the X200 systems. Or if the size of the T410 is about right, but you want a thinner, lighter system, then maybe an X300 is more suitable.

OK allow me to explain my needs a little better. I am a retired bachelor with not too many dollars through certainly could afford the $250 you mentioned if I had to, but I was thinking of maybe using sniping software and snag something for less than 200. I would not mind getting one with some cosmetic damage that would bother me.

I think it must be at least four years ago now when only computer broke down and I had to get another one fast since my computer is basically most of my entertainment. I even watch all of my TV via a television antenna and my computer tuner.

I would have found a better desktop computer than the one I have now if I had some sort of other computer to search the web with. I wound up getting bamboozled by a salesman who led me to believe a two core desktop was really a four core. I would've liked to build my own, but that would've required at least some sort of second computer for instructions.

My needs are these I do not play computer games, but I do watch many high quality videos. Many of these are music videos which I listen to with very good audio gear via my computer and audiophile headphone set up. So first of all I need to be able to play videos with the parameters I will give you hear directly below.

example 1
General
Complete name : E:\RecordedTV library-ms march 2013\Great American Songbook_KRMADT_2013_12_04_20_28_00.wtv
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
File size : 8.42 GiB
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Law rating : TV-G

Video
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Bit rate mode : Variable
Maximum bit rate : 19.4 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Time code of first frame : 22:09:21;08
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Text #1
ID : CC1
Format : EIA-608
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #2
ID : 1
Format : EIA-708
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #3
ID : 2
Format : EIA-708
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

example 2
General
Unique ID : 171638323177649616999949573673292933021 (0x812056AFE16EBCD9BBBB2D1FC5EC279D)
Complete name : C:\Users\marc\Desktop\music overflow & TV raw\BBC Hooray for Hollywood Proms 2011 - Prom 59 [HDTV 720p].mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 3.23 GiB
Duration : 1h 58mn
Overall bit rate : 3 886 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-09-04 06:57:29
Writing application : mkvmerge v4.0.0 ('The Stars were mine') built on Jun 6 2010 16:18:42
Writing library : libebml v1.0.0 + libmatroska v1.0.0

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 58mn
Bit rate : 3 500 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.152
Stream size : 2.84 GiB (88%)
Writing library : x264 core 116 r2019 9cc407d
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=3500 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=40000 / vbv_bufsize=30000 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1h 58mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 30ms
Stream size : 327 MiB (10%)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No

In addition to watching the above videos I make a once annual airplane trip to my parents and would like to save the money I spend on watching videos you, buy from the airlines which I usually buy both ways. So as I understand it I am allowed a second carry-on bag 18 inches wide for both my lunch and possibly a newly obtained laptop. So my second requirement is whatever I get fits in at 18 inch wide big along with my lunch. I have no concern if it's a road warrior laptop a kind a small laptop etc.

One other thing I would like the computer to have a video output to attached to my big-screen television. Either VGA or HDMI output or obtain it via a passive wire adapter. Well that's the whole story. Hope you could help? And thanks.

[rkawakami]

Getting to your last point first... It just so happens that the main reason why I bought the T410 systems is to play videos on my HDTV. My eventual goal is to use them to stream video from the net, be a media storage center (i.e., store/play .ISOs) and view Blu-Ray disks if I can find a reasonably priced drive. The video output on the T410 is a DisplayPort++ which is able to provide both HDMI and DVI interfaces through passive adapters. Some other Thinkpads also have the DisplayPort but they do not pass audio. I just played a DVD in the Ultrabay drive through one of my TV's HDMI ports and it looked and sounded fine.

I'm not an expert on what the various video codecs require for hardware, but I would hope that an i5 CPU, even with Intel graphics, should be enough to play a Blu-Ray disk. On the off-chance that more video processing power is needed, that's the reason why I also bought the second T410 with nVIDIA graphics.

The T410 is 13.25" x 9.5" x 1.5" so you should be able to find a case that meets the carry-on restrictions. If you have the 9-cell battery, then it's about 10.25" instead of 9.5". The main drawback on the T410 is that it does not have an FHD display (it's 1440 x 900).

[bbmiller]

I'm not an expert on what the various video codecs require for hardware, but I would hope that an i5 CPU, even with Intel graphics, should be enough to play a Blu-Ray disk. On the off-chance that more video processing power is needed, that's the reason why I also bought the second T410 with nVIDIA graphics.

The T410 is 13.25" x 9.5" x 1.5" so you should be able to find a case that meets the carry-on restrictions. If you have the 9-cell battery, then it's about 10.25" instead of 9.5". The main drawback on the T410 is that it does not have an FHD display (it's 1440 x 900).

Type:
Notebook
Processor Type:
Intel Core i5
Brand:
Lenovo
Processor Speed:
2.53 GHz
Product Line:
ThinkPad
Graphics Processing Type:
Integrated/On-Board Graphics
Model:
T410
Memory:
2 GB
Operating System:
Windows 7
Hard Drive Capacity:
160 GB
Screen Size:
14.1"
Operating System Edition:
Professional

OK the above copy of a T410 specs is one that I do or do not know if I want to bid on? But perhaps you could use it to inform me of what those specs all mean. I highlighted in bold and text size the parameters I most have questions about. Are those graphics not 5i Intel processor graphics, but on the board graphics. Is the RAM sufficient to run the videos I wish to run or do I have to find one which has more RAM? And how much would it more RAM likely cost? For that matter how much would getting a larger hard drive likely cost? Are all things like RAM and hard drives available used at good prices?

[rkawakami]

"Integrated graphics" refers to the usage of an Intel graphics processing unit (GPU). For the T410, this means an Intel HD that is part of the Core i5 package. Another option is "discrete", which means a separate nVIDIA GPU is mounted on the motherboard. The nVIDIA is generally seen as the better of the two, at the expense of added cost (when bought new) and higher power consumption; important if you are going to be running on battery for any length of time. Some systems have the best of two worlds; being able to run the Intel graphics for low power, but if extra processing power is needed, the nVIDIA can be swapped in. These systems are known as "switchable graphics". I don't have enough experience at the moment to say which one you will need for running your videos. Maybe somebody else out there can chime in and educate us both.

I would say that 2GB of memory now days is on the small end of the spectrum. Your list indicates that the T410 has a "Professional" operating system. I'm assuming that it would be Windows 7 but there's two versions: 32 bit and 64 bit. 32 bit version can only address a maximum of 4GB of RAM so if that's the case, you would be wasting your money if you installed more. 64 bit can address more than you could possibly install.

Prices for RAM and hard drives for the T410 should be on the reasonable side at the moment. RAM requirements of the T410 is DDR3 PC3-8500 (204 pins). I have not yet seriously gone out looking at DDR3 laptop RAM prices but a quick check on eBay says you can get 2GBx2 (total of 4GB) for $20 shipped. So if you only need one more 2GB module, figure $10-$15. Hard drive for the T410 is SATA (Serial ATA) 2.5" wide (i.e., laptop), 9.5mm high. It's been some months since I bought any large SATA drives off eBay but my usual rule-of-thumb (i.e, my sniping limit) is $35 for 320GB and $40 for 500GB. I generally go after Seagate Momentus 5400 and 7200 RPM drives.

My recommendation would be to look around for a system that already has 4GB and a decent sized hard drive, as opposed to assembling pieces, since you don't already have those items on your shelf. It's usually more expensive to do it that way (i.e., my example of ~$178 for the 1st T410 vs. $150 for the 2nd one).

[bbmiller]

"Integrated graphics" refers to the usage of an Intel graphics processing unit (GPU). For the T410, this means an Intel HD that is part of the Core i5 package. Another option is "discrete", which means a separate nVIDIA GPU is mounted on the motherboard. The nVIDIA is generally seen as the better of the two, at the expense of added cost (when bought new) and higher power consumption; important if you are going to be running on battery for any length of time. Some systems have the best of two worlds; being able to run the Intel graphics for low power, but if extra processing power is needed, the nVIDIA can be swapped in. These systems are known as "switchable graphics". I don't have enough experience at the moment to say which one you will need for running your videos. Maybe somebody else out there can chime in and educate us both.

Would this be the form of these forms to post a new question on graphic power needed to display the videos I give examples of in their full glory?

[Saucey]

I did watch a 720p .mkv that seemed to have a nice playback on an oldder 2008 X61T with an SSD, 1.6GHz CPU and 4GB of ram.
I had the SXGA+ screen, so I don't think I had full 720p quality on there, I have to check if I have any more 1080p videos and to try and play em.
It played it well on its battery power too, this was may be a video of 2 or 3 years ago so I domnt know the advance!ents of codecs. I don't know what frames per second it had, I think its no better than 50. I know its a deal breaker for some when it comes to video games but it doesn't matter when it comes to video, unless you like the frame rate of The Hobbit...

I can't say how great the sound is on them, I don't get any interference unless I have an amplifier hooked up to any of my ThinkPads. It sounded good to me (keep in mind I've yet to have a pair of $200+ cans) when I did play it on my MDR-V6s, didn't get any interference there...

It did do a decent job pushing out a 1080p video to an external monitor via VGA, there wasn't any frame skips or sound bumps. The video was played from an external hard drive as via UBS 2.0, but I do know that my machines struggle at video streams, Netflix is OK but each video varies on resolution...

I have Windows 7 ultimate running with MPC-HC, trimmed aero and other whistles from the default Win7 settings so I have less tasks running in the background. There is a Broadcom HD chip that can be used for the X61t to push slightly better video from its onboard/integrated graphics. Ive yet to try one but I do plan on getting it.

I would say discrete graphics card will help when it comes from watching video from your web browser, but only my W700ds is my most recent machine and that thing is a workstation so it still chugs alone very well. Too big to carry around.
The W500 with its V5700 does OK compared to it.
But these machines are older and much lower than your budget...

[bbmiller]

OK with all of the ways to search eBay and the rest of the web I think I may have been confusing myself, but perhaps I am beginning to get the answers I seek. At this URLhttp://www.notebookreview.com/notebookr ... -review/2/ there is a review that says. " For the average user the T410 in even the basic configuration will be able to handle 1080P HD video without breaking a sweat. " Well I am not exactly sure if they mean and externally displayed video on a television capable of 1080 P display or they mean displaying a 1080 P on the T410 low-resolution screen itself, but it seems like this T410 must be at least in the ballpark for displaying videos the way I want to on a television.

Well in spite of that above statement in that review should it be necessary to get a dedicated graphics processor even after reading all I have read it is still not clear to me whether it is available as it as a add-on even if you don't buy it that way. Is it? And if so will the one at this eBay url http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-NVIDI ... 2ec725d356 Be compatible as a dedicated graphics processor? It is not that bad in price should it be necessary.

[Saucey]

Regarding that review, the T410 doesn't have a 1080p display.
It comes equipped with either a WXGA/HD and a WXGA+/HD+ display. So it probably can play a 1080p video but it would only show 720p or 900p on the display, but if you have a WUXGA monitor then you see the 1080p in full glory.

Also that chip that you had a link to, I don't know if anyone could upgrade from integrated to discrete graphics. Laptops for the most part aren't modular like desktop PCs (there are a few exceptions). You'll have to swap motherboards, so its best to buy the unit with discrete graphics already.

[rkawakami]

As far as I know, none of the recent Thinkpads can be internally upgraded graphics-wise, by simply adding/swapping a GPU chip. I'll have to qualify this by saying I'm not that familiar with the L or W series systems. For that type of upgrade, you'd have to do what Saucey suggests and change the entire motherboard.

There's also the possibility to use an ExpressCard slot or a docking station to host another video card but now we're talking added expense in one case and not a portable solution in the other.

Therefore to keep everything simple and cost-effective, my suggestion would be to snipe a discrete (i.e., nVIDIA) system if you are still not sure about the minimum system configuration you'll need to play your referenced files. Or you could post your question (in another topic) and see if anyone here has your answer. I can say from experience that an T410 Intel graphics system can easily play a DVD through the DisplayPort++ via an HDMI input on my TV. If I get some time tonight, I'm going to try and see how well these video clips play on my T410 (assuming the files are still available): http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=106660

[bbmiller]

Thanks for the help the respondents gave me on this thread! At the end I believed the review I quoted and went for one from a large seller who claims their refurbished laptops are in A1 condition. I got one without the better graphics per the review I quoted. And my T410 has only a 160 GB hard drive, 4 GB RAM and acclaimed second generation i5 processor. However the small hard drive should not be a problem since I also own an esata docking station and and intend to use this computer mostly at home. The price was shipping ended up being $206. I went for who I was thinking giving me a good condition use computer from whom I thought was a reliable seller rather than price.

[rkawakami]

I finally got around to downloading those video clips and playing them. Using VLC (2.1.5) and viewing them on my 1440x900 T410, there appears to be some interlacing going on. It's noticeable in the first clip (clip 1.m2ts) as tiny horizontal lines next to the tree trunks as the camera is panned from side-to-side. Playing with Windows 7 Media Player I don't see the same lines. All three clips play smoothly on my i5 M540 with 4GB of memory. The real difference is with the CPU loading. VLC averages around 33% utilization, while Media Player barely makes it over 10%.

[ajkula66]

...and acclaimed second generation i5 processor.

No it doesn't.

All of these machines utilize 1st generation Core CPUs, no ifs, ands or buts.

[bbmiller]

I have received my ThinkPad T410 it appears to be in the A+ condition they promised.

Thus far I have been trying to display videos on my television through the T410's VGA output port and my televisions VGA input port, but I have been not successful. The graphic interface we you change the graphic resolution seems to say something like no other monitor recognized. So do you think I have to go the display port adapter to HDMI route to get an external monitor recognized?

[Saucey]

Weird, I know one of my laptops didn't like to use the monitor while running, but seemed to work fine when I restarted it while connected.
Not sure if this was changed on the T410, basing this from my X61 and T60.

I mean it should work, the X61T upscaled to my 1080i TV.

[ajkula66]

What happens when you toggle Fn+F7 ?

[bbmiller]

What happens when you toggle Fn+F7 ?

Well I know what F7 is but maybe I should but I do not know what Fn is. Also I gave it another go the VGA cable and right clicking on the desktop I chose Intel integrated graphics which is what I believe I have an there were options on that interface that said TV/monitor not supported. But that doesn't make sense to me since this computer comes with those hardware interfaces like the VGA port and the display port. So I was thinking maybe the display port to HTML will work. Consequently I ordered such a cable. It will get here by Friday and I reread my PayPal agreement and supposedly I have 14 days to return this computer should it be unsatisfactory. So it looks like I will have enough time to return it if necessary.

The review I read that convinced me this computer should work I link to above basically as the same computer with the exception they say their reviewed computer it had a M540 processor and my as a M520 processor and a smaller hard drive, but all of the pictures showing all the ports on the same. I know there is T410s model which is different, but I seem to have the one in that review with some small differences. Well maybe I might have have to go to that review website and post their as well as here to see if I can get the answer.

If I can't get to work with any external monitor be it in slightly lower resolution than the full video resolution of the the video then I will return it. I think even paying return shipping in that case be better than keeping it. So I would appreciate whatever help you all can give me. I think for now I have to just wait for that display port to HDMI cable through arrive by Friday and see.

[rkawakami]

Basic operation of Thinkpads:

There are several built-in software/hardware control functions that are accessible directly from the keyboard. In some cases you may have to have an appropriate Thinkpad driver or utility program installed. If you look closely at the keyboard you'll see several keys with blue legends on them:

F3, F4, F7, F12, Home, End, PgUp

At the lower left of the keyboard, the Fn key is in blue. This visual indication is reminding the user that the secondary functions of keys that have the blue icons/legends on them can be performed when the Fn key is held down at the same time when the other key is pressed and released. Think of it as a "shift" key. The convention for this keystroke action is:

Fn+<other key>

so, Fn+F7 means to hold the Fn key down while you press and release the F7 key, then release the Fn key. If you look at the F7 key, the blue icons represent a screen and monitor. These symbols indicate control over the video display on the LCD screen and external monitor. When you plug in an external monitor, the video signal is not normally being routed to the VGA port. To activate the VGA port you press the Fn+F7 keystroke one time. In most cases this will deactivate the laptop's LCD screen and send the video out to the external monitor. If you press Fn+F7 again, the video should be active on BOTH the LCD and external monitor. Pressed a third time, only the LCD will be active.

To complicate matters some, if you have one of the custom Thinkpad utilities loaded, you may get an on-screen selection of the various combinations of display options.

Note that you should NOT have to do this keystroke operation if you are connecting via the DisplayPort. Fn+F7 only controls the LCD screen and VGA port.

And to answer your next logical questions...

Fn+F2 - locks your desktop
Fn+F3 - launches Power settings
Fn+F4 - puts the system into Sleep mode; you wake it back up by pressing just the Fn key
Fn+F5 - controls your wireless hardware; WiFi, Bluetooth
Fn+F6 - launches Communications utility (sound, camera, microphone control)
Fn+F7 - selection of video outputs
Fn+F8 - UltraNav (touchpad) options
Fn+F12 - puts system into hibernation
Fn+Home - Display brightness up
Fn+End - Display brightness down
Fn+PgUp - toggles ThinkLight on/off

[bbmiller]

In some cases you may have to have an appropriate Thinkpad driver or utility program installed. If you look closely at the keyboard you'll see several keys with blue legends on them:

F3, F4, F7, F12, Home, End, PgUp

At the lower left of the keyboard, the Fn key is in blue. This visual indication is reminding the user that the secondary functions of keys that have the blue icons/legends on them can be performed when the Fn key is held down at the same time when the other key is pressed and released. Think of it as a "shift" key. The convention for this keystroke action is:

Fn+<other key>

so, Fn+F7 means to hold the Fn key down while you press and release the F7 key, then release the Fn key. If you look at the F7 key, the blue icons represent a screen and monitor. These symbols indicate control over the video display on the LCD screen and external monitor. When you plug in an external monitor, the video signal is not normally being routed to the VGA port. To activate the VGA port you press the Fn+F7 keystroke one time. In most cases this will deactivate the laptop's LCD screen and send the video out to the external monitor. If you press Fn+F7 again, the video should be active on BOTH the LCD and external monitor. Pressed a third time, only the LCD will be active.

Thanks for replying so quickly. I am retired and slept late and have just seen your reply. I tried the Fn+F7 function key using the keyboard sequence you suggested with no results. Mind you I was not playing a video, but but merely trying to display my desktop on my television. You have to proactively enable the television to uses the VGA input but I believe I did that correctly. Consequently I wonder about those utilities you mentioned could I need one? Is there a way of checking?

I have a passive display port to HDMI cable on order with an arrived date of on or before Friday. According to Wikipedia it can be seen at this link " compatibility with HDMI, DVI and VGA " that some past employments of the display port have required active adapters, but according to what has been said in the replies above it appears that the ThinkPad T 410 should not be one of them. So once again to you think I require it utility?

[rkawakami]

You should not need any kind of software utility or driver in order to get video out the VGA port with the Fn+F7 key sequence. You are correct in assuming that you can display your desktop via the VGA port (i.e., you don't have to be playing any type of video). There exists two possibilities:

- your system has a retail (non-OEM) Windows installation; usually means you have none of the factory utilities or drivers
- your system has a factory Windows installation; this usually means you have all of the default ThinkVantage utilities and drivers

You can tell the difference between the two by:

- Windows 7: right-click on the Computer entry off the Start menu and select Properties. Locate the "System" section. If there's a Lenovo icon above "Support Information", you have a factory install. If not, then it's a retail version.
- Windows XP: right-click on the Computer entry off the Start menu (or right-click on the My Computer icon on the desktop) and select Properties. If there's a Lenovo icon under "Manufactured and supported by:", you have a factory install. If not, then you have a retail install.

The Fn+F7 key sequence can result in different responses depending upon the Lenovo utility software that's installed (or not). However, when you do correctly press the Fn+F7 sequence you should at least see one of two things:

- the T410's LCD goes blank
- an on-screen menu appears on the T410's LCD

If possible, connect a regular computer monitor to your T410's VGA port and see if that works. That would eliminate your TV's setup as a possible source of error. Most computer monitors can actively scan their ports and detect any valid video signal. You could also manually select the input source using the monitor's controls.

As outlined in the Wiki article, your T410 has a DP++ (Dual-mode DisplayPort) connection. This means that you do not need an active adapter when connecting to your TV's HDMI port. A simple passive adapter can be used, however it appears that not all passive adapters can pass the audio signal. A model that works for my T410 is described here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 37#p738337

[bbmiller]

If there's a Lenovo icon above "Support Information", you have a factory install. If not, then it's a retail version.

I successfully found a basic computer information screen by right clicking on computer and then going to properties, however the only Lenovo icon I see there is not above system support, but beside system manufacturer. There is a with Lenovo then© then support heading separation but no icon there just a telephone number 1-866-45-THINK.

The Fn+F7 key sequence can result in different responses depending upon the Lenovo utility software that's installed (or not). However, when you do correctly press the Fn+F7 sequence you should at least see one of two things:

- the T410's LCD goes blank
- an on-screen menu appears on the T410's LCD

Well doing the Fn+F7 sequence gives me a momentarily black screen, but it doesn't stay continuously black just momentarily. I never see the menu you have also mentioned.

I do not have a an other monitor with a VGA port, my other monitor has ports, but nodded VGA port.

Should I need the Lenovo drivers because I have an installation that isn't Lenovo supported can I get them for free?

[rkawakami]

Hmmm... I just checked my T410 running with a freshly installed Windows 7 Pro from the factory restore disks and there's a Lenovo logo where I described:

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/images/W7ProSystem.jpg

I also don't see any "System manufacturer" title/section anywhere. What version of Windows is on the machine (at the top under "Windows edition")?. And while you are at the System window, click on "Device Manager" at the left side. That should open up Device Manager which shows a list of all the hardware that Windows knows about. Click on the arrow/triangle next to "Display adapters". That will then reveal a line naming your video chip controller; probably Intel HD or something like that (please provide that name when responding). Right-click on that line and select Properties. Several tabs will be visible. Click on Driver and then tell me who the Provider is and what Version is installed.

Since you are not getting any on-screen menu when you press Fn+F7 it appears you do not have the Lenovo Presentation Director software installed. You can download it for free from the Lenovo Support site but I don't think that is your problem. Also, because your LCD screen is briefly going dark and then returning to normal, that doesn't seem to me to be normal (which is why I'm asking for the video driver version).

In the event you need any of the factory utilities or drivers for your T410, you can find them here:

http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/researc ... MIGR-74582

In most cases it's a three-step process to upgrade your system:

- downloading the correct file; pay particular attention to the operating system that is supported by the utility/driver
- finding that file on your computer (wherever your browser stores downloads) and then executing the file
- going to a specific folder (usually c:\drivers\<xxxx>) and executing another file (typically setup.exe or the like); check any related "Readme" or "installation notes" file on the Support webpage

[bbmiller]

Thanks for your continued help. Some screenshots of the information you asked for firstly the basic configuration, secondly the device drivers and expanded device property Gen graphics tab,, and thirdly the device driver graphics tab.

Hope you can figure out something from these screenshots and tell me what I have to download and if I can find it all at the link you already gave me?

[bbmiller]

Hmmm... I just checked my T410 running with a freshly installed Windows 7 Pro from the factory restore disks and there's a Lenovo logo where I described:

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/images/W7ProSystem.jpg

I also don't see any "System manufacturer" title/section anywhere. What version of Windows is on the machine (at the top under "Windows edition")?. And while you are at the System window, click on "Device Manager" at the left side. That should open up Device Manager which shows a list of all the hardware that Windows knows about. Click on the arrow/triangle next to "Display adapters". That will then reveal a line naming your video chip controller; probably Intel HD or something like that (please provide that name when responding). Right-click on that line and select Properties. Several tabs will be visible. Click on Driver and then tell me who the Provider is and what Version is installed.

OK I've been a bad old man. I haven't provided what you want in the text form you wanted it so here it is. My operating system is Windows 7 professional with service pack 1 installed. Also in the system type it says 64 bit operating system. I believe your screenshot said 32 bits so that's a difference. Also going to the driver tab and display graphics properties I have drivers version 8.15.10.2622 installed and the drivers are made by Intel (R) HD graphics (or at least that's the name Intel calls it).

Please inform me if you just think I should add " Lenovo Presentation Director " software-only?

[Compgeke]

Here's another way of connecting a 2nd screen to the laptop. I'm reusing old screenshots but I did post instructions below each screen. This way just uses the built in Windows display support rather than the Lenovo utility.

http://imgur.com/a/qQPBH

If this doesn't work it's also worth trying to update the graphics drivers with the one from the Intel site. The latest Intel has is 8.15.10.2993. This should also have the Intel graphics control panel with it which would have multi-monitor options as well although I can't give any screenshots of it as I have an nVidia model.

Here's a link to the latest driver from Intel:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail ... ldID=22521

[rkawakami]

At the moment I can't point to any one thing that is preventing your system from accepting the Fn+F7 sequence. I also just checked the driver page and it appears that there is no Presentation Manager software for Windows 7. If Fn+F7 does not work then try Window's own control over external monitors by holding the Windows key down and pressing P.