I for one have no idea.

How big is the cost difference between "old" (e.g. X220) and new (e.g. X230) keyboard anyway? (Your guess/estimate to get an idea is fine by me.)
And is it due to keyboard layout (number of keys, form/size) or maybe due to the new backlight?

The new keyboard is more expensive with backlight.

You are absolutely right, that's why I am betting on it.
Do you have any knowledge in this area you could contribute?

Me? I know the price of the X1 keyboard, and that price is much higher than the classic keyboard, 40 € (classic) vs. 80 € (X1).

no sorry, I got thats was directy at bill b.

Interesting post from W530 forum viewtopic.php?f=70&t=104315
Especially for us who rushed to buy X220 just because the keyboard

This review http://www.laptopreviews.com/lenovo-thi ... ew-2012-05 states

"I managed to put the X220 old style keyboard and palm rest onto the X230. It fits perfectly, but before you run out to buy a X220 keyboard in anticipation of getting a X230, the keys are mapped in the BIOS and exchanging them yields some strange results. While the letter characters work normally, the Delete key moves to the Page Up key and controlling the screen brightness is done using Fn + F7 or F8, like it is on the X230."

What remains is a BIOS mod to use the keyboard. Funny, in the past there were BIOS mods to use proper display, now to use proper keyboard.

With a little bit of good will by Lenovo (offering a nice BIOS update), one could fit a semi-classic keyboard onto the X230.
That should not be too hard to do.

It'd probably take less time to just adjust to the new keyboard.

I'd put my money on someone like Middleton rather than Lenovo when it comes to stuff like this...

If it were up to them, our R61/T61/X61 machines would still be capped at SATA I speeds...

Then it is easier to "adjust" to different brand.

Sure...because other vendors make better keyboards. It is not easier to adjust to a different brand.

Same crap as Lenovo. But they can offer more features like better display resolution or lighter chasis.

Oh, yes. Look at Dell or HP. They don´t offer better displays, except 15,6" (and the FHD display from AUO in the W520/W530 is really good too). Indeed, HP and Dell have nothing for example to beat the X230. They don´t offer IPS on their 12,5" business-notebooks, and the Precision keyboard is still the best in the industry (IMHO). It also is lighter than the Elitebooks or Latitudes, and has more battery-life. Or another example: The W530. It is lighter then Dell and HPs mobile workstations, and has a better battery-life. The screen is maybe not IPS, but it is a pretty decent TN.

I wish you much fun "adjusting" to HP and Dell.

Sony and Asus have 13" 1920x1080 IPS equipped models. Yes, the keyboard layout is horrible. Same as new Lenovo one.

Hm, yes, but Consumer-Ultrabooks. Can´t matching the toughness and the maintainability of a ThinkPad.

The keyboards are a way more horrible on these Ultrabooks too, because the have flat keys and less travel.

You can´t compare them. The only really competitors for ThinkPads are Latitudes and Elitebooks. And unless HP and Dell are not moving to better displays, Lenovo won´t move too. The consumer Ultrabooks are not important for Lenovo.

Both HP and Dell offers 15" IPS display option in their workstation models, Lenovo doesn't. The last biggest Lenovo advantage, the proven keyboard layout, had been thrown away. That makes the comparison easier, no need to stay with Lenovo anymore.
No ? Why is there second article about X1 Carbon this month on Lenovo blog then ? "The X1 Carbon will be the first Ultrabook™ in the ThinkPad X Series." And yes, the same fail again: "We opted for a high-resolution 1600 x 900 pixel LCD with a matte, anti-glare finish." Calling such resolution "high" for 14" screen is ridiculous considering that even a "low-end" company like Asus can offer better product.

It is high compared to the last years X1. And the X1 Carbon is a business-Ultrabook, consumer Ultrabooks from Lenovo can be found in the IdeaPad U-Series. And the new U310s is not announced yet.


Yes, very expensive. The ThinkPad W FHD screen is also very good, and, again, the W530 is lighter and more mobile than the Dell and HP systems.


I don´t care about the layout and see no advantage for me in the old keyboard...the feel is important for me, and that is why Lenovo wins for me.

Shouldn't it offer better features being business model than Asus consumer one ? Screen estate is one of parameters that affects productivity.

You forget completely the ergonomics as a important parameter for productivity. Most people say that 1920x1080 on 13" oder even on 15,6" is a way to small. There are even some who say that the text on my L520s HD+ 15,6" is to small! So I think 1600x900 for 13"-14" has a nice balance of screen estate and ergonomic work.

True, but the FHD panel in the T520/W520 *is* a wide gamut panel and is pretty phenomenal for a TN panel. As far as color coverage is concerned it's superior to the IPS panel in the 8560w (not sure about the Dell options.) It's a little inaccurate in some areas, but not massively so. For on-the-go graphics work it's definitely as suitable as the LP156WF1 in the EliteBooks.

While I don't understand the reasoning behind changing the "gold standard" of laptop keyboards, from what I have read it is still good as far as laptops keyboards usually go. (usually soft/mushy with no travel) ThinkPads have been appealing to many people because they have a "proper" traditional keyboard, I guess not anymore..

The only reasoning behind this that I can think of is that it makes ThinkPads more appealing to consumer-laptop buyers.

However while I don't necessarily like it either I will still be buying a new ThinkPad.

I am about to buy a new TP; perhaps a W530. But that keyboard... what the heck?!

Let's see:


And I count another one: The right click key!!!.... and... it's gone

Who on earth comes up with that crap? No spacing between the F keys. Good luck hitting the right one! As soon as you're used to it, they will make them smaller on the next model!?

And how do I get the function of those five removed keys? Yeah, ok; I didn't use ScrollLock, but all the others I did use. Especially forward, backward and the 'right click key'.

Lenovo!

What's a "right click key"?

The key between the right side of Alt and Ctrl on the old layout.

Cheers.

What a wasted key. I don't think I've used it more than accidentally in the 17 years since it was introduced.

Speaking of which, I wish manufacturers would move ahead and get rid of this Windows logo. The key itself has value, but why not label it either "Mod" or "Option." The new Windows logo is hideous, is that going to be on my next keyboard?

New Lenovo Blog post: Change Is Hard: Why You Should Give In to the New ThinkPad Keyboard

Now they keep on trying to "talk it beautiful".
The next try might be, to suggest to drink some pints of beer
("Old Peculier" comes to my mind, another classic, also called "‘Lunatics Broth’"),
before looking at the new keyboard layout.

SCNR

What a joke. Nowhere in that blogpost did "they" give a reason for switching from 7-row to 6-row. All that's said is that "it takes not as long to adjust as you think".
Yeah, well: why not put just a numpad on there? You'll hit '3' twice for the 'e', hit '2' one time for 'a'. Don't worry: there is a learning curve, but you'll get used to it.

And of course the poh-ha of the backlight option... it's just as silly as the 'blue enter' stuff; you're not supposed to look at the keyboard!! For the same reason there is a ridge on 'f' and 'j'. It might be "beautiful" to some people; but that's all it is: aesthetics.

And I agree with the comment of Corsac on that blog post:


If Lenovo was so sure that a big Escape and a big Delete was better, this new 6 row keyboard simply _must_ be worse. I doubt we will ever get a response from Lenovo on that one.