Thinkpad USB Keyboard w TrackPoint gone? Replaced w chiclet?

[pkiff]

[Added later: the old USB keyboards are available from Lenovo again as of July 2014, so this first post is no longer accurate. For further comments on the differences between the old and new versions, see my posts further below.]

I guess time moves on, and models get updated and replaced. But I was disappointed to learn that Lenovo appears to be discontinuing the original Thinkpad USB Keyboard with TrackPoint (P/N 55Y9003):
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/product ... MIGR-73183

Presumably, it has been replaced by the newer bluetooth and USB "chiclet" style version ThinkPad Compact USB Keyboard with TrackPoint:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=0B47190

I haven't actually used the chiclet-style Thinkpad keyboards yet, since my Thinkpads are all still from the generation before the move to chiclets. When I do make the move, I expect I'll get used to the new style easily enough. But I really like the USB Keyboard with TrackPoint for use as a desktop keyboard. I liked the generous palm rest, I liked having a keyboard with the full, dedicated Function key row separated from the additional (ESC, volume, mute, PRTSCR, etc.) keys, and of course, I liked NOT having the numpad pushing my mouse further away from me, and I've become somewhat dependent on having a TrackPoint on my desktop keyboard for typing/productivity reasons.

Finally, I really liked having a desktop keyboard that had an identical layout to my X61 and T60 keyboards.

Here's a very good video discussing and demonstrating the differences between the two versions of the keyboard, and this reviewer emphasizes how the lack of a generous palmrest in the new version prevents it from being a good choice for users like him (and me) who rest their palms on the keyboard while typing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ovMqIZijhg

For me, these keyboards were not primarily used as "portable" keyboards, but as full-fledged standard desktop keyboard replacements. But the new versions seem to be focused on the "compact" aspect - making them easily portable and usable with tablets and whatnot. And along the way, they seem to have lost some of the functionality that made them good desktop keyboards for me.

I remember when Lenovo touted the new design on its design blog:
http://blog.lenovo.com/design/the-keybo ... ped-design

I guess they are just updating the new version to match what they've done with the keyboards on their new machines. But for people who don't like (or aren't ready for) the new keyboard design on their latest Thinkpads, the disappearance of this original external Thinkpad keyboard is a shame.

Ah well.

[Ole]

Should probably get one before they spike in price on ebay. The old one with the numpad is expensive as f with UK/EU key configuration.

[Adda]

As long as it is bluetooth, I'll never even consider buying it, no matter how it's made, I HAVE to have cabling, nothing else will do.
A bluetooth keyboard or mouse for that matter, can never replace cabled equipment, this is just another example of Lenovo not understanding the purpose of their own products.

I have one of the elongated Esc and Delete key USB Keyboards with Trackpoint, it's not broken, not lacking, nothing is really wrong with it, so of cause it's being discontinued...
Normal keyboards from W510 fx. can be put in to the palmrest and the USB interface works, and the keyboard from the "USB keyboard with Trackpoint" (terrible name really) can be put in to a W510.

The vendor of the pats in the... sigh... "USB keyboard with Trackpoint" is LiteON, so different form usual NMB (good, but lettering wears off easily), Alps (feels clumsy, lettering wears off easily) and the Chicony (haven't tried it).

The LiteON feels a lot like the NMB, I don't know how well the lettering will hold, but the layer that protects the print on the keys, is very thin compared to other vendors.
This makes your nails less likely to catch the lettering and scrape it off (unforgivable incompetence), I have ThinkPad keyboards form the 90's with good letting, but Lenovo can't manage the simple things IBM did 20 years ago...

[Ibthink]

As long as it is bluetooth, I'll never even consider buying it, no matter how it's made, I HAVE to have cabling, nothing else will do.
A bluetooth keyboard or mouse for that matter, can never replace cabled equipment, this is just another example of Lenovo not understanding the purpose of their own products.

No, this is just another example of someone who doesn´t know any better, because there is a USB version of this keyboard: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=0B47190 Thats the same link as in the start-post of this thread...

I have one of the elongated Esc and Delete key USB Keyboards with Trackpoint, it's not broken, not lacking, nothing is really wrong with it, so of cause it's being discontinued...

This old keyboard had some huge build-quality problems in terms of flexing, and it wasn´t available with Bluetooth, which you maybe not want, but many others want Bluetooth keyboards.

It would be a bit pointless to have the old keyboard in the external version, while all newer ThinkPads have the new keyboard - after all, the charm of the external ThinkPad keyboard is that you can have the same keyboard on you desk and in your Notebook, and the TrackPoint of course...

[pkiff]

Should probably get one before they spike in price on ebay.

Too late! This version of the USB Keyboard with TrackPoint has been selling on eBay for well over $100 for several years. I have no idea why. It has been cheaper to buy one direct from Lenovo (for about $60, shipping included, plus tax in Canada) almost since they were first released. I don't think eBay ever had them cheaper - at least not with shipping to Canada - I've been tracking them!

[Adda]

No, this is just another example of someone who doesn´t know any better, because there is a USB version of this keyboard: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=0B47190 Thats the same link as in the start-post of this thread...

I read the post, but did not click the links as I'm running off WWAN, with less then 1GB of data for the remainder of the month, the last thing I need is, well pretty much any website out there.
But it doesn't really matter much, the keyboard it self is the same, and is not replacement for the old one.

This old keyboard had some huge build-quality problems in terms of flexing, and it wasn´t available with Bluetooth, which you maybe not want, but many others want Bluetooth keyboards.

My current W510 and the USB key.... doesn't flex, one of the Alps ones I have did flex, but nothing a bit of bending couldn't fix, the lettering issue, well, that's Lenovo for ya, warranty doesn't even cover that.
The new keyboard has problems with keys rubbing against the frame, or get stuck after a while, nothing you can bend your way out of, so quality problems have not improved.
The old IBM ones, have no flex, no built quality problems or anything like that.

It would be a bit pointless to have the old keyboard in the external version, while all newer ThinkPads have the new keyboard - after all, the charm of the external ThinkPad keyboard is that you can have the same keyboard on you desk and in your Notebook, and the TrackPoint of course...

So if you have a laptop, it would be pointless to get a keyboard that is different form the one on the laptop?
There definitely is an advantage to having the same keyboard on both laptop and desktop, but only if those keyboards are any good.
There may even be an advantage to having a good desktop keyboard, for use with a laptop with a crappy keyboard.
But a lot of people don't want to buy current Lenovo offerings, in part, due the new keyboard, I have never heard anyone complain about the old one, except for flexing on a few models, a fixable issue.

So why don't you explain to us, why the new keyboard is better then the old one?

[Summilux]

D.amn, no longer available in my local layout either
Got two in reserve but I'll try to get one more.

[pkiff]

Grrr....more grumbling and griping: I can't find the USB version of the new chiclet-style Compact keyboard with TrackPoint on the Canadian Lenovo site. I can find the French layout, and there are links in the original post to the US-layout version on the US Lenovo site, but Canadians can't order from the US site. So they've discontinued the old model, but haven't yet replaced it with a proper new model (unless you consider the BlueTooth version to be a proper replacement, which I don't). Something seems wrong with the sales and distribution decisions around this to me. Even though the new version has been out for over a year. Harumph!

A quick check on the Lenovo forums and it looks like the USB version with US keyboard layout was slow to get to market generally:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Options-Ac ... 733/page/2

I have three or four other IBM keyboards from various eras that I can pull out and I'm using one now, but it doesn't have a TrackPoint, and I really notice the difference.

[Ibthink]

You could order the USB version over Amazon.ca : http://www.amazon.ca/COMPACT-USB-KYBD-T ... ds=0B47190

Really confusing why the USB version in English is missing on the Lenovo Canada site...here in Germany, both version are widely available in German layout.

[pkiff]

You could order the USB version over Amazon.ca [...]

Thanks! Didn't think to look on Amazon.

Phil.

[pkiff]

Ended up ordering this (i.e. the new, Lenovo Compact USB Keyboard with TrackPoint) through TigerDirect in Canada:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/ ... No=7911019

I also found it at a handful of other online sources in Canada, though TigerDirect was the cheapest after including regular shipping.

Also, FYI, I posted about my experience on the Lenovo Forums, though I don't really expect anything to come of it. If you are looking for other online sources, I've listed them there:
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/General-Dis ... -p/1559078

[lead_org]

i have had plenty of usage time on both, and all i can say is this.

The new Compact ThinkPad with TrackPoint has better feel than the old ThinkPad USB keyboard, and don't get the Bluetooth version, but get the USB version instead.

The Old ThinkPad USB keyboard always had that cheap feel to it, and the tactility isn't as good as the keyboard on the laptop due to the plastic support case used.

[pkiff]

I've been using the new Compact USB Keyboard with TrackPoint for about a week now. I'm starting to get used to the differences between it and my previous Thinkpad USB Keyboard now. A couple things I would note.

First, the lack of built-in palm rest is not nearly as big of a problem as I anticipated. I rest my palms on my desktop now and that is working fine. The person who reviewed the keyboard in the Youtube video I linked to above made it seem like it would be impossible to hold your hadn in the right position without it slipping off or something. I think it will depend on how large or small your hands are relative to where you normally want them to rest. In my case, I have reasonably large hands and I would not be able to type if my palms were resting anywhere on the actual keyboard, so my palms are never in danger of slipping off.

Second, I haven't missed having dedicated sound keys as much as I thought I would. I leave the Function key lock set so that my Function keys are F1-F12, and it hasn't been that hard of a transition.

Third, I am having trouble adjusting to the Home, End, and Delete key positions. I can't imagine that I will ever actually be able to find the Home and End keys by touch alone. Certainly right now, I still need to look down at my keyboard to figure out where they are and which is which, or I'm accidentally hitting the wrong one and need to look down to find out what happened. Those are keys that I use all the time for editing. The Delete key position, I'm sure I will eventually get used to, but I continually make mistakes with it right now - accidentally hitting it instead of Backspace or something. And it will probably be a hassle trying to get my hands to remember which layout I'm using when I switch back and forth between my actual T60p and X61T keyboards and my external USB keyboard.

Fourth, the jury is still out for me on the PgUp and PgDn replacing the Forward and Back (or CTRL-Left and CTRL-Right) keys. Once I manage to unlearn my habit of using the Forward and Back keys, I may end up actually liking the new PgUp/Dn keys.

Fifth, on the plus side, I expect I will eventually (in the next 6-18 moinths) move to a chiclet Thinkpad machine with some variation of the new layout, and so I should find that transition pretty easy when I do, since I will have been using the external keyboard for a while by then.

Lastly, although I've heard people say that the switches are identical in the new compact keyboard and the length of travel is the same, and I've heard people complain about the flex of the old USB keyboard, and I've heard people praise the tactility of the new Compact keyboard, I still find the new keyboard less good for me as a touch keyboard. Maybe it will just take time, but I think that even an ideal, almost perfect implementation of the the island-style or chiclet buttons like on the Compact USB keyboard will never quite meet my touch-typing expectations compared to earlier older style keyboards buttons.

Maybe my opinion will be different in another 3-6 months.

Phil.

[pkiff]

Following up on this because the old (7-row, non-chiclet, traditional) version of this keyboard became available through Lenovo Canada again in mid-June, and I ordered two on 28 June and received them on Friday 4 July. (Thanks to moderator Erik for letting me know when they re-appeared on the Lenovo Canada site!!) I see them available now on both the Lenovo Canada site:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=55Y9003
and the Lenovo US site:
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=55Y9003

It looks to me like it is possible that this is a new production run of these keyboards since the date on the serial number label on the shipping box shows as 19JUN14. Hopefully, this means that these keyboards will remain in stock for a few years yet.

Having used the new chiclet keyboard for the past month or so, and now switching back to the original, I can confirm what many people have said about the "cheaper" feel of these older keyboards compared to the new chiclet versions, and I must also admit that there is indeed noticeably more flex and general "mushiness" to the keyboard in the old version as well, which I understand some people have found annoying. But now that I've returned to the old layout, I have to say that for me, it is an unbelievable relief to be typing on a keyboard with a "proper" layout again.

I don't suppose there is any need to explain in detail what the advantage of the old keyboard layout is - many people I think already went into this when the chiclet keyboards were first introduced. So I'll just say that my personal experience confirms what many have found: that the old keyboard layout is simply better for productivity, and I have to object to claims I've heard that Lenovo makes that users will adjust to the new layout in a few hours or days. This may be true for some users, but not this user.

I used the new chiclet keyboard exclusively for an entire month and was never able to reach the typing speed that I had with the old keyboard, nor was I ever able to accurately learn how to locate various essential keys by feel, in particular: Home, End, F12, F4, and despite its convenient location, I was never able to get used to the positioning of the Delete key, and still found myself hitting Backspace when I meant Delete or vice-versa after a month of heavy use. I also found it annoying that the new keyboards removed Fn-F4 for Sleep, and the Context/Right-Click key, and that they did not have a CapsLk light (which is I think essential when using a docked laptop placed somewhere you can no longer see the CapsLk light on your laptop). I also find generally that I depend a great deal on the different gaps that are scattered around the old keyboard (between the groups of F1-F12 keys, between the CapsLk and A keys, beside the Delete key).

In summary, I'm just about overjoyed to be back with the old layout again, and do not look forward to the day when I am forced to upgrade my laptops to systems using the new chiclet keyboard style. Who knows, maybe there will be new keyboard versions available by then...