New Lenovo Support Site

[Saucey]

I couldn't find my specific model TYPE of my machine.
Looks like getting barebones IPS T60's are going to be a gamble now from craigslist and eBay.

[Johan]

I couldn't find my specific model TYPE of my machine.

If you read the thread Lenovo Driver Sweep. *LenovoSupport severely limited!* and see this post you will find a link to a Lenovo-site which (still!) allow for the MTM-lookup.

My suggestion: Get (= download!) all the "pre-T61" documentation you wish NOW! Soon it may probably be too late...

Johan

[pianowizard]

About a year ago, Dell trashed their age-old good support site, took-down countless documents

A couple days ago, I went to dell.com to look up my 15-year-old Inspiron 7500 (which is still working fabulously BTW, with a super bright 1280x1024 screen). All drivers are still available for download -- I mean ALL of them, including Linux, DOS, and Windows 3.* through Windows 2000. And several manuals are still there, including a hardware maintenance manual with complete disassembly and parts information.

Then I went to lenovo.com to look up the 7-character, non-CTO product code for an X200s, which is what, 5 years old? The system couldn't find it. I had looked up this exact same product code several months back, and it worked then.

HP's Web world was always messy.

Agreed completely. At one point, it even had a super tiny font size. The HP site is maintained by morons.

[RealBlackStuff]

My guess is that Lenovo has now hired those HP-morons to help screw up their own website.
As if they didn't already have enough a$$holes themselves!

We should really change the thread-title to: New Lenovo Lack-Of-Support Site.

[sriram00]

Pardon me if I am going against the grain here, but I do have one more perspective to offer.

I am a long-time Thinkpad user (600E, R40e, R52) current (T42 SXGA+ IPS, T60p UXGA IPS, X60s). I am 30, and my first Thinkpad was at 15. So have been using them for half of my life. Except the R52, all my machines have been purchased used. Apart from replacing batteries or the ultra-bay, I do not have the expertise, the tools or the skills to tinker with my laptops and do my own modifications and replacements.

The reason I enjoy Thinkpads

A) Stability -- Back in the day when most people in India were getting assembled desktops or be proud of some other laptop they would always complain how Windows would freeze/hang/shut down, or how they lost their data. I had no issues running standard Win 98 and XP in my standard 600E.

B) Ergonomics -- I can work on it all day on a desk or on the lap and never feel any fatigue, aches, strain or stress. In fact, 2006 was my first foray into high res screens with my T42 SXGA+ and from 2008 have been on the UXGA panel of my T60p. At 30 I still have 20/20 vision and no carpel tunnel.

C) Support and durability -- The machines were engineered to last long and remain durable even after repairing or replacing components. More than that, the company was excellent in providing on-site or in-depot support with the payment of an annual fee.

In all fairness, I think we have to understand that not everybody is a tinkerer, and ten years is a reasonable amount of time to keep machines running. And a company cannot be supporting classics like the 600e or an A31. That said, it would have been appropriate if Lenovo just kept those old support pages as they and not bother with it.

However, I think what all of us as users should also look into is the current business model of consumer tech where a technology is never allowed to settle. And this is leading to a business model where if you have to survive, you have to keep encouraging short lifespans and even shorter product support.

We should have modern machines, with modern internals, with light weight design, with better battery life etc etc. But with constant messing about with the design, companies like Lenovo don't realise they are making it difficult for themselves. For instance, a T61 could have been a T60 with modern internals. But because the external design is different -- asymmetrical bezels, different body, different panels, different placement of ports -- a T60 part won't fit in a T61 or vice versa. At that time, the processing jump from a Core Duo to a Core 2 Duo may be negligible. But by needlessly changing stuff around, you are making it difficult for your own self to keep manufacturing/maintaining parts and components for various generations. Forget such old systems. Look at the first gen X1 and the current gen X1. You already have a mismatch with keyboards, mouse/touchpad.

I guess for a substantial tech upgrade -- let's say Intel comes out with a fanless design -- by all means, go berserk with that new laptop. But for every processor update that increases performance by x1.5, everybody comes out with a machine that's x10 different from the previous one.

Everybody does this despite seeing a successful, profitable business that does not do change for the sake of change -- the Porsche 911. It's stuck to its current configuration since the day it was born in 1964. It continues to be the sportscar everybody from Jaguar to Ferrari to BMW wants to match. And it's a sportscar that continues making money and profits. I am an auto journalist by profession. It's common knowledge that a car, especially a sportscar is never a sound investment. It depreciates. Yet, the 911 remains desirable, the base models are reasonably priced and it's the top when it comes to retaining value in the used market. Primarily because while every generation sees massive improvement in performance/efficiency/comfort, the changes are not radically drastic. So quality is good, and parts for cars as far back as 1996 (when they moved from air-cooled to water-cooled engines) are available freely. And the older ones are available with specialists.

The 911 is an economy onto itself and survives changes in trends, legislation, whims of the buying public, recession. And this despite being much cheaper than its direct competition.

The Thinkpad was that, and could have continued being that. It was it's own economy. It generated a parallel economy of a used market. If it's more expensive, fine. People/businesses who understand it, will buy it. People who understand it, but can't afford it, will buy a used one. You can earn money by providing paid warranty support. And to do that, Lenovo's design should walk the line between improvement, progress, compatibility and support. I am sure a lot of forum members here, if they are given a pencil, paper and a ruler can design a laptop. But that's not what design is. Come on Lenovo, everybody can design. But it takes a genius to come up with clever, sustainable, profitable design.

Lenovo's worrying about how to maintain their site or breaking their heads over which support manual to take out. Instead they should worry about the Thinkpad, the Porsche 911 and a business model that can produce long-lasting products that are distinct from the market. They may be low in marketshare, but can be high in profits.

Longevity is a good, marketable quality. Have any of those uncountable annual package MBAs (not macbook airs) thought of marketing it? Or am I, at 30, already part of a different era?

[JaneL]

Pardon me if I am going against the grain here, but I do have one more perspective to offer.


In all fairness, I think we have to understand that not everybody is a tinkerer, and ten years is a reasonable amount of time to keep machines running. And a company cannot be supporting classics like the 600e or an A31.

Lenovo is the #1 PC manufacturer, and keeping that data around is pocket change for them. Don't be ridiculous. Go troll somewhere else.

[Ibthink]

Then I went to lenovo.com to look up the 7-character, non-CTO product code for an X200s, which is what, 5 years old? The system couldn't find it. I had looked up this exact same product code several months back, and it worked then.

Well, the MT-lookup might not work for some older model right now (which Lenovo should fix ASAP!), but be fair: All the files, downloads, manuals etc. for the X200s are still available: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/product ... kpad-x200s They can be find easily by simply using the product name.

Lenovo is the #1 PC manufacturer, and keeping that data around is pocket change for them. Don't be ridiculous. Go troll somewhere else.

I agree. Money shouldn´t be an argument here. The only vaild argument I see for the removal of the content from the main support site is the performance of the support site - the new site appears to be much faster to me. But thats no reason to stop offering this content, as it could be saved by simple creating the proposed legacy site and seperate the older models from the new models...and to maintain that site would cost Lenovo nearly nothing.

[Dekks]

The only vaild argument I see for the removal of the content from the main support site is the performance of the support site

Or they want to reduce the secondary market in order to sell new product.

[sriram00]

Janel,

I am sorry you think of it as a troll. But if you read the very next line,

That said, it would have been appropriate if Lenovo just kept those old support pages as they are and not bother with it.'

While maintaining support information is always good, my post was more on what if design can be such that parts, components are interchangeable across several generations, and change is not done for the sake of change. It could be another way of ensuring products and parts can be supported longer. And subsequently reducing dependence on support information for each model generation.

Look at the first gen X1 and the current gen X1. You already have a mismatch with keyboards, mouse/touchpad. For every processor update that increases performance by x1.5, everybody comes out with a machine that's x10 different from the previous one.

My apologies for a different point of view. In all honesty, it was only meant to be an idea that could be discussed. And was not intended as an argument, defense or alternative.