The problem is there's not enough complaints because most people don't even know what stereo mix is unless you work with audio in Windows (DJs, Musicians, Radio People, etc.). To be honest, I was surprised that the removal of the stereo mix option in newer laptops was not featured in any Google technology news.

What can be said about this is that the recording industry and the motion pictures industry absolutely want to make sure that users are not able to rip CDs/DVDs and distribute them freely without a proper license to do so. Then like I said, there are many ways to use stereo mix, and obtaining copyrighted music is just one of them. What if you produce your own music and want to play that over the Internet? You use stereo mix.

I have a T42 that also has a SoundMax (but an older chipset). I'll look through it's inf file for any clues as to what other lines may need to be changed. At this point, I'm glad I did not sell the T42 so I can use it to watch TV and capture and archive my family home movies with the ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0.

There must be someone in the world who realizes that there is a legitiment need to bring in Audio for the TV tuners and home movies while still preventing unauthorized copying .... we sent guys to the moon about 40 years ago and you'd think some young smart programmers or marketing managers would figure out how to to it without upsetting all the the $750/hr lawyers feeding at the trough of intellectual property rights.

What about USB TV tuners .... don't college students use them on laptops anymore?

my dvb-t usb2 tv tuner works good. with sound. even in the mixer i dont have a new line in....

i think the sound will be transfered normally via usb and than normally player over the soundcard.

that would be tooo much anyway.

but i think it is a tragedy with the crippled soundmax. anyone with experiences with new notebooks from other brands ???

I use a HP Dual TV Tuner with my T60p and route USB audio through multiple USB devices. I am using the SoundMAX current driver. I do use Windows Vista Ultimate as that is required for the TV Tuner I own.

What make and model is your USB TV Tuner device? So you only feed it the coax cable or antenna and it outputs one USB connection to the laptop? What software are you using to tune and watch TV. Can it also record channels (including the sound)?

Is your T61 a US model or a European model ... They may not be crippling the sound card outside the US.

Thanks!

Could you please elaborate about the multiple USB devices .... also doesn't Vista come with features like the old WinXP MMC Edition designed for use with an external tuner however?

Can you record the shows on your laptop?

I have a thought, what about routing audio from external sources into the mic jack (I think it is stereo). Would that allow for recording audio? Or, is the mic jack incompatiable for use as a physical line-in connection?

The mic jack for the Thinkpads is mono. Unless you want a mono audio recording result even from a stereo source, you'll want to use VAC or buy an external USB sound card like Sound Blaster.

The drivers for the HP Dual TV tuner have specifically been disabled to make it not work with Windows XP or anything less the Vista Ultimate. This is a decision of Adaptec AVC-3610 the actual maker of the HP Dual TV tuner. I also have a Microsoft USB Headset a LiveChat LX-3000, and a Micro innovations NB690MM USB Travel Speakers. I have a Transit M-Audio device that works well under XP, and not so well under Vista, still waiting for real, not beta drivers for it.

And yes the HP Dual TV Tuner works under Vista Ultimate and under Windows Media Center as a Personal Video Recorder, I have recorded two shows at the same time, video and audio. While also using Skype and the LiveChat LX-3000 headset.

terratec, cinergy xs....yes hoop up the antenna and it only comes one usb connections to the notebook and voila you go. also i CAN record with sound, even with a crippled soundcard....

that brings me the question isnt it just software crippled ???

i thought users can use real player to download videos off youtube? with audio and video

I might be wrong, but I think those are files or streamed media .... the problem lies with external devices that rely on using a stereo "Line in" to mix the audio into the video ... like an external box type USB TV tuner.

Someone else here may be better able to explain this.

Was there anyone who was aware of this "defect" prior to purchasing their ThinkPad? Is anyone aware of a disclosure of this defect by Lenovo in any of the sales literature? By reading the ordering material on the Lenovo website, can anyone point out a place where the inability to record is cited, disclosed, warned about, etc.

I, for one, feel hoodwinked by this and believe an explanation by Lenovo should be forthcoming and some form of remedy supplied. Does anyone agree with me?

After spending a lot of time searching about crippled onboard soundcards it seems other mfgs are now doing the same.

As for the notice, I personally did not see disclosure as there probably was none.

The key is to figure out if this is a hardware or software cripple.

I for one believe some person much smarter than I will figure that out.

Since my T61 spends 99% of it's time on an Advanced Mini-dock hidden behind my 22" WS external monitor and external lenovo KB / travel mouse with the lid shut, I would not mind adding an external sound card into one of the slots if that's what it takes to get a stereo mix working again and simply disable the onboard SoundMAX sound card.

Has anyone done this yet and will it solve the issue is my question to everyone here on this great forum? ..... thanks

Well I bought my Thinkpad expecting the stereo mix feature to still be around. I complained to Lenovo several times about this issue, and they told me to contact SoundMAX since they are the one responsible for built-in sound devices in motherboards these days. Worse yet, none of the Lenovo tech guys know what stereo mix is all about. Some of them told me to contact Lenovo experts, which is a paid support service. I certainly wasn't going to pay additional for support services when I paid premium for my machine already with warranty included.

I think the stereo mix disable implementation is in the sound driver provided by SoundMAX, which is a software cripple. Obviously tweaking the INF file didn't do the trick, so I believe the real deal is in one of the sys files. It will definitely take a real skilled hacker to crack that one. Also mentioned earlier in my posts, VAC is a better but more complicated workaround for the stereo mix feature and it works on any machine that supports WDM drivers. If you use Windows XP, you're good to go. Vista users might encounter some minor problems, but try it for yourself and see what happens. If you're looking to just record music from outside sources, try Total Recorder.

The bottom line is, if VAC works, then that probably means it's a software not a hardware cripple. I agree that Lenovo should inform us about this feature cut, but as someone wrote above, this issue seems to be widespread with recently manufactured machines. The RIAA and the MPAA are definitely behind this act.

I contacted Analog Devices. Basically, they told me to get lost and take it up with Lenovo. The email is too long to post here, but you can tell they've been dealing with this and are being at best, obstructive.

please do post the email.....especially the relevant parts

Admin Edit: Contact mixz1 by PM if you feel the need to see the email.

I'm not surprised ..... If there is a workable software solution to this, I'm sure it will eventually happen by those who love such challenges and word will get around. The issue is probably too fresh so let's give it a few weeks.

BTW .... you have a PM.

Thanks

Here are some chip specific stats from an analysis of my mobo. Hacker opinions are solicited. Maybe someone with a T from an earlier generation can compare. I used Astra 32 to get this.

Sound Chip Vendor Intel Corporation
Sound Chip 82801H (ICH8) Family HD Audio Controller
AC'97/HDA Codec Name Analog Device 1984
Susbsys Vendor Legend Ltd.

Driver Desc. Microsoft UAA Bus Driver for HD Audio

Device Timing Fast
Memory Access Supported
I/O Access Not Supported
Bus Master Supported
66 MHz Speed Not Supported

I have two USB tv tuners. Both came with dongles to allow capture of external audio/video. We used this with the xbox so that you can use the thinkpad as a monitor. In addition you can use the pvr feature of the software to capture it to a file. Then you can use moviemaker to edit the file. I remember my son telling everyone in halo to shutup because he was starting a capture session.

One tuner is USB and the other is a cardbus. One does analog tv while the other does analog/digital. One is made by avermedia and the other i can't remember.

I don't want to sound like a nag here, but I think we all realize that we're going to need extra devices to perform vid caps. I'd like to re-direct this thread to its initial focus.

A) We can't perform an AUDIO capture using the NATIVE feature of these machines.
B) This feature has always been available until now.
C) Intel/Lenovo/Analog Devices have deliberately crippled this feature with no notification or explanation to the end user.
D) We'd like it fixed without resorting to ancillary software or equipment.

We are complaining about regular WinXP based operating systems ..... Is your operating system Vista or XP Media Center?

Also, what is your laptop model number?

Thanks.

Yes I agree, but we should also explain to Intel/Lenovo/Analog Devices/other manufacturers and the RIAA that their good intentions to help struggling recording artists in Malibu and Beverly Hills (by crippling sound recording/capture capabilities to prevent music pirating) has led to unintended consequence for legal legitimate uses of this crippled feature such as viewing TV and capturing non-copyrighted material like family home movies on laptops running WinXP SP1 or SP2.

In my opinion, they have taken a sledge hammer approach to fix something that only needed tweezers. They and their lawyers did not fully "Think-Pad" this through properly and the same applies to most other laptop makers.

I wonder if Mac laptops are now also being crippled? By the performance of Apple corporate stock nearly tripling over the last 18 months I would suspect not ..... although the iPod and iPhone also helped to a great extent with the stock performance. I have a nephew now majoring in film and music technical production at a Los Angeles area university and he switched from the ThinkPad I gave him for High School graduation this year to a new Mac just two months ago as recommended by his professors ..... and who else to best know the real deal these days .... his profs right?

I think that pretty much sums it up regarding my opinions on this forum topic.

Fortunately I can afford to buy a cardbus sound card as a workaround, but I know lots of starving college students who don't live in Malibu or Beverly Hills that will get stuck with new non-Mac laptops running Win XP this year for Christmas. I predict that they will be quite upset when they discover that they no longer can watch TV on their laptops from their dorm rooms

I fear that the real Tsunami of complaints has yet to arrive.

Our forum Moderaters would be doing a public service to make this Thread a Sticky.

Thanks to everyone for their hard work and conrtibutions to this topic.

Note from Moderator: We're discussing whether this merits a sticky, and nagging us doesn't hasten the process.

I forgot to ask what operating system are you running .... WinXP or Vista?

BTW, do you know if I can disable the T61 onboard SoundMAX audio and use an external cardbus soundcard (rather than a USB sound card) as a workaround for WinXP?

i am using winxp, sp2.
yes i tried using an usb external soundcard. worked. but i dont remember as it works with recording the stereo mix.

and yes, i think because of vac works, it is software crippled...

i think one thing everyone can do is complain at lenovo so if lotsa people doing this they hopefully react. i guess the riaa and co just paid all the manufactures a lot of money to do that, due that they cant force them on the legal way...

it is a shame...also for lenovo...

I disagree. Anyone using Messenger or Skype can perform audio capture
Still is.
Well gee I'd like to buy a dell and have it be an IBM. You got what you bought and if you didn't understand what you are buying well I'm sorry.

Sorry about that ..... really.

Let's see. 57 posts, 914 views and your T6x series ThinkPad can perform native stereo sound capture? Either you don't understand what the rest of us are talking about or...

And no, I don't want to buy a Dell. I bought a ThinkPad and paid for a ThinkPad. I got less than a ThinkPad.