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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:40 pm 
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Hello,

I've been playing around with an UltraNav SK-8845 (made in 2007). Come to think of it, pretty rare to find a keyboard lacking windows keys made in 2007, but IBM was known to throw microsoft a sour bean here and there... windows keys are stupid but I digress.

I'm having problems getting the drivers to work. I've installed the drivers for the SK-8855 (in hopes that they'll work for the SK-8845), but they don't. Seen here: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-73183

I tried forcing the keyboard to use that driver, no dice. Although I did see two synaptics items pop up along with other USB HID entries seemingly all tied to the keyboard somehow.

I tried the UltraNav driver (typically for thinkpads), refused to install from not seeing any device(s) present: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/downloads/ds029425

I went ahead and tried some older vista drivers which some folks were using for the SK-8845 under Windows 7-- now these drivers DID enable the trackpoint to function (sans the middle button). BUT, it only functions for 15 seconds and then stops working-- until I restart or reinstall it again. But only for 15 seconds, no more. Weird.

Has anyone else had any luck running an SK-8845 under Windows 8?

I just found this page for drivers (http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd026503), I swear I tried this package already, but it looks different from that SK-8855 package.

For various reasons I do not want to get an SK-8855 and I guess I'll explain since it may come up. For starters the cable routing has been reduced, not sure why Lenovo has done this, even on their desktop keyboards whereas the IBM variants had more cable routing options. The middle 'scroll' button has received a reduced footprint, I like it being larger. I have no need for a windows / context key (which affect the sizing of alt and ctrl). I don't like those ESC and Delete keys, if I can help it. And finally the most vain reason, I prefer the IBM branding.


Cheers.

_________________
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:00 pm 
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To provide an update, the drivers at http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd026503 are actually for the later chiclet ultranavs as far as I can tell.

However after doing some digging, I found out that the SK-8835 (essentially the SK-8845 with numpad) is auto-detected by windows 8 with a functioning trackpoint and touchpad according to some users. That means there's either a fundamental hardware difference between SK-8835 and SK-8845, or 8.1 had a larger change from 8. It's unlikely that 8 and 8.1 would have that much of a difference.

Now I'm curious if the SK-8835 has different hardware (however I do not care for numpads with the extra size and the hideous price tag those go for is even more deterring)-- I still don't have concrete proof SK-8845 uses the synaptics ultrastyk. I suppose I could look for some ultrastyk windows 8.1 drivers to experiment. I'll also continue a search in the depths of the internet to see what drivers were explicitly released for SK-8845; the product hasn't really been documented well, anywhere.

_________________
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:34 am 
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Good news and bad.

The good news is, I finally got the trackpoint working. The bad news is, it doesn't seem like the middle 'scroll' button is functional.

After playing around endlessly with installation package 'v5kyb04us17', it somehow finally took. I am not sure if this is also because I was trying to install '6hgx81ww', which happens to be a synaptics-specific UltraNav driver. Every time I ran 6hgx81ww, it claimed there were no synaptics devices, which was false as the device manager showed it after you install v5kyb04us17.

Anyways, somehow... the synaptics drivers are working now. They don't look to be Lenovo branded though... under 'buttons' I have two devices:
Synaptics TouchPad V5.9 on USB port
Synaptics TouchStyk V1.13 on USB port

At this point I can verify it's not a resistive trackpoint but a capacitive touchstyk. The touchstyk doesn't seem to suffer from the drifting problem that a regular resistive trackpoint does. Also, synaptics does give the option to reduce the pressure required quite dramatically, so it tracks quite well.
EDIT: actually after some more extensive stress tests, the touchstyk does suffer from drifting. So it's not a problem exclusive to negative inertia as commonly touted.

In fact I'm very surprised at how well it tracks... on its HP brethren I can never seem to use it properly (although this may be primarily due to poor rubber nubs). I like the rim trackpoint cap the best.

Anyways... has anyone else had a different experience with these SK-8845 UltraNavs? I'm curious about getting the middle button working... if anyone has done so.

PS: I was able to disable the synaptics touchpad. Curiously my SK-8845 came with a piece of foam installed over the touchpad rendering it nonfunctional sans the buttons anyways... I am not sure if this came with the original keyboard that you'd stick on, or if it's custom made and applied. If it's custom they matched the corners perfectly... anyways it's staying on.

_________________
Abused daily: T601 14.1" 1600x1200 Win7, T43p 15.1" 1600x1200 OS/2
Sleeping: 360PE, Z61t, 850


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:45 pm 
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Well I have gotten the middle button working properly now.

You have to go into the synaptics touchstyk options and set the middle button for the continuous scrolling. By default it's configured to behave like how you'd push down a wheel of a typical mouse.

With that said, it actually also scrolls *horizontally* as well, allowing more functionality than the standard IBM driver and hardware (and in a way a bit more like a scrollpoint). The SK-8845 has some rather abysmal rubber membranes for the middle click button so it feels rather soggy (despite using more or less the identical button than your standard T30 would have). I'm experimenting with some rubber membranes from the T30 and T60 NMB keyboards which actually make it feel how it should. The T30 membranes seem to work the best, however I'll have to shave the top off a bit as it's too high. I'll probably make an article on the whole modification process when it's done.

So far the SK-8845 is getting better and better. At first I was disappointed, but now I quite like it.

_________________
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:52 am 
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Let me go and check on what drivers I am using on my Win7 x64. Maybe those could work?

_________________
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:03 am 
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crashnburn wrote:
Let me go and check on what drivers I am using on my Win7 x64. Maybe those could work?


It's alright, I figured out the correct driver package is v5kyb04us17. I think other installations were conflicting with the package the first time I gave it a try. And to get the middle button behaving how it should, it requires to be manually configured to do so.

_________________
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:16 am 
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micrex22 wrote:
crashnburn wrote:
Let me go and check on what drivers I am using on my Win7 x64. Maybe those could work?


It's alright, I figured out the correct driver package is v5kyb04us17. I think other installations were conflicting with the package the first time I gave it a try. And to get the middle button behaving how it should, it requires to be manually configured to do so.


:) Awesome. Thanks for the post back. I will be moving to Win 8 x64 Pro so that should come in handy.
Hmm.. do share what conflicts / packages you are facing and how you configured manually :)

PS: I was googling around and found this as well.. similar/ related.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=83662&hilit=v5kyb04us17

Edit: Missed the link :)

_________________
T61 8892-02U: 14.1"SXGA+/2.2C2D/4G/XP|Adv Mini Dock|30" Gateway XHD3000 WQXGA via Dual-link DVI
X61T 7767-96U: 12.1"SXGA+/1.6C2D/3G/Vista|Ultrabase
W510 4319-2PU: 15.6"FHD/i7-720QM/4G/Win7Pro64 (for dad)
T43 1875-DLU: 14.1"XGA/1.7PM-740/1G/XP (Old)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:50 pm 
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I would like to update this--

Erik (who was very kind in contacting me) sold a Japanese SK-8835* and included with the often neglected driver disc for these series of keyboards: which has additional files that is nowhere available at Lenovo, and IBM has long since removed the files. I'll be uploading these files publicly at some point, but if anyone needs them 'now' just send me a PM and I'll send you a download think with a .ZIP. Some ebay listings selling these keyboards NOS include the driver discs, but usually older versions -- aaaaand -- it would be annoying to fork over $100 just to get an outdated drivers disc when someone already has one to share. This driver disc should work for both the SK-8845 and SK-8835.

On that note, the Japanese SK-8835 assembly seems to have a different trackpoint cap... one where it uses an 'adapter' that attaches to the old style smaller square stem. I am not sure if this is due to different manufacturers (which I think it is as the switches feel *slightly* different) or if IBM just used alternative caps on non-US boards.

'USB Keyboard with UltraNav Software and Installation Manual - Version 4.0'
(it also includes the old IBM HTML support pages and W2K / XP drivers, but of course the Vista drivers are the ones most people would be interested in).

On that note... since the keyboard does use a synaptics touchstyk, it should be possible to install later (generic) touchstyk drivers if the vista drivers in this package don't work for someone. I'll be investigating that in the future some time...

It is possible to switch assemblies from an SK-8835 into an SK-8845 and vice versa (the numpad is separate). With the only exception that the SK-8845s may not have the numpad ribbon connector soldered on, I think they do, but I can't remember.

*The Japanese SK-8835s seem to be pretty hard to find at this point, at least in North America. Mostly just ANSI and UK-ISO NOS ones that remain.


Thanks,

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:12 am 
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micrex22 wrote:
I would like to update this--

Erik (who was very kind in contacting me) sold a Japanese SK-8835* and included with the often neglected driver disc for these series of keyboards: which has additional files that is nowhere available at Lenovo, and IBM has long since removed the files. I'll be uploading these files publicly at some point, but if anyone needs them 'now' just send me a PM and I'll send you a download think with a .ZIP. Some ebay listings selling these keyboards NOS include the driver discs, but usually older versions -- aaaaand -- it would be annoying to fork over $100 just to get an outdated drivers disc when someone already has one to share. This driver disc should work for both the SK-8845 and SK-8835.

On that note, the Japanese SK-8835 assembly seems to have a different trackpoint cap... one where it uses an 'adapter' that attaches to the old style smaller square stem. I am not sure if this is due to different manufacturers (which I think it is as the switches feel *slightly* different) or if IBM just used alternative caps on non-US boards.

'USB Keyboard with UltraNav Software and Installation Manual - Version 4.0'
(it also includes the old IBM HTML support pages and W2K / XP drivers, but of course the Vista drivers are the ones most people would be interested in).

On that note... since the keyboard does use a synaptics touchstyk, it should be possible to install later (generic) touchstyk drivers if the vista drivers in this package don't work for someone. I'll be investigating that in the future some time...

It is possible to switch assemblies from an SK-8835 into an SK-8845 and vice versa (the numpad is separate). With the only exception that the SK-8845s may not have the numpad ribbon connector soldered on, I think they do, but I can't remember.

*The Japanese SK-8835s seem to be pretty hard to find at this point, at least in North America. Mostly just ANSI and UK-ISO NOS ones that remain.


Thanks,


I was able to find: v5kyb04us17. Is the ZIP file you are offering the same or another driver package?

_________________
T61 8892-02U: 14.1"SXGA+/2.2C2D/4G/XP|Adv Mini Dock|30" Gateway XHD3000 WQXGA via Dual-link DVI
X61T 7767-96U: 12.1"SXGA+/1.6C2D/3G/Vista|Ultrabase
W510 4319-2PU: 15.6"FHD/i7-720QM/4G/Win7Pro64 (for dad)
T43 1875-DLU: 14.1"XGA/1.7PM-740/1G/XP (Old)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:13 pm 
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I would like to update this for two reasons: #1 to provide the latest driver packages and what I have discovered, #2 to clarify a few things to one-time-registrations exclusively to send me PMs about drivers for the SK-8845.

Here is a download to the *latest* Lenovo SK-8845 specific driver:
http://ibmfiles.com/ibmfiles/peripheral ... rivers.zip

Here is the download to the *latest* UltraNav driver (which is the one I recommend, read below):
http://support.lenovo.com/ca/en/downloads/ds019164

I was able to install the *latest* ThinkPad UltraNav driver on the SK-8845 as Lenovo's driver also runs Synaptics devices. The driver is actually a package (partly) developed for IBM/Lenovo on behalf of Synaptics. And Synaptics manufactures all trackpoints. What you need to do is manually point the SK-8845 to the UltraNav package, and then the UltraNav driver will switch into 'Synaptics' mode and run the SK-8845 just fine. Yes, the UltraNav driver has different modes, depending on what 'UltraNav' it sees-- I found this out after hooking up an SK-8845 to a ThinkPad--which caused the driver to change modes and stop working for my ThinkPad, but worked fine on the SK-8845.
ThinkPad Edge laptops also operate on the 'Synaptics' mode like the SK-8845, whereas a regular T series ThinkPad uses the more deluxe Lenovo branded portion of the driver. The TouchStyk implementation is less 'precise'.

**To the people who register to thinkpads.com ONLY to send me a one-off private message about asking for help on the SK-8845 regarding drivers. I sort of don't like the ethics behind it as you're using my private mailbox for technical support on an issue without contributing anything to the thinkpads community (since you don't care about the community, you just want your personal issue fixed). If you have no desire to contribute to the thinkpads community and just want to send me PMs without ever posting anything, forget it. The forum was not exclusively designed as a private messaging system.**

Normally I wouldn't have a problem with this, it's just *so many* one-offs are sending me PMs about the SK-8845. So they waste resources on the forum and leave soon as their problem is resolved. One person even told me to EMAIL them as they wouldn't be looking at their private messages on the forum after they sent the message. :roll:

Anyone who wants help on their SK-8845, please publicly reply to this thread, don't send me any more one-off PMs.

_________________
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:02 am 
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Location: Luanda, Angola
I have one Lenovo X230 ... With the last update, after I installed Windows 10 I stop being able to use the SK8845.
What I did ??

I uninstalled the Synapics drive and all re-start working.

The incompatible driver is Synapics Pointing device driver ver 19.0.17.85

Rgds

Rui


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:28 pm 
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passaro wrote:
I have one Lenovo X230 ... With the last update, after I installed Windows 10 I stop being able to use the SK8845.
What I did ??

I uninstalled the Synapics drive and all re-start working.

The incompatible driver is Synapics Pointing device driver ver 19.0.17.85

Rgds

Rui


I have not attempted to get the SK-8845 to work under Windows 10. My suggestion is to find a Windows 10 Lenovo Trackpoint driver, and try to get the 'synaptics' portion working with the SK-8845. If that doesn't work then you're out of luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:14 am 
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I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9400

I presume it is the same? Similar? Same drivers apply to this one?

micrex22 wrote:
I would like to update this for two reasons: #1 to provide the latest driver packages and what I have discovered, #2 to clarify a few things to one-time-registrations exclusively to send me PMs about drivers for the SK-8845.

Here is a download to the *latest* Lenovo SK-8845 specific driver:
http://ibmfiles.com/ibmfiles/peripheral ... rivers.zip

Here is the download to the *latest* UltraNav driver (which is the one I recommend, read below):
http://support.lenovo.com/ca/en/downloads/ds019164

I was able to install the *latest* ThinkPad UltraNav driver on the SK-8845 as Lenovo's driver also runs Synaptics devices. The driver is actually a package (partly) developed for IBM/Lenovo on behalf of Synaptics. And Synaptics manufactures all trackpoints. What you need to do is manually point the SK-8845 to the UltraNav package, and then the UltraNav driver will switch into 'Synaptics' mode and run the SK-8845 just fine. Yes, the UltraNav driver has different modes, depending on what 'UltraNav' it sees-- I found this out after hooking up an SK-8845 to a ThinkPad--which caused the driver to change modes and stop working for my ThinkPad, but worked fine on the SK-8845.
ThinkPad Edge laptops also operate on the 'Synaptics' mode like the SK-8845, whereas a regular T series ThinkPad uses the more deluxe Lenovo branded portion of the driver. The TouchStyk implementation is less 'precise'.

**To the people who register to thinkpads.com ONLY to send me a one-off private message about asking for help on the SK-8845 regarding drivers. I sort of don't like the ethics behind it as you're using my private mailbox for technical support on an issue without contributing anything to the thinkpads community (since you don't care about the community, you just want your personal issue fixed). If you have no desire to contribute to the thinkpads community and just want to send me PMs without ever posting anything, forget it. The forum was not exclusively designed as a private messaging system.**

Normally I wouldn't have a problem with this, it's just *so many* one-offs are sending me PMs about the SK-8845. So they waste resources on the forum and leave soon as their problem is resolved. One person even told me to EMAIL them as they wouldn't be looking at their private messages on the forum after they sent the message. :roll:

Anyone who wants help on their SK-8845, please publicly reply to this thread, don't send me any more one-off PMs.

_________________
T61 8892-02U: 14.1"SXGA+/2.2C2D/4G/XP|Adv Mini Dock|30" Gateway XHD3000 WQXGA via Dual-link DVI
X61T 7767-96U: 12.1"SXGA+/1.6C2D/3G/Vista|Ultrabase
W510 4319-2PU: 15.6"FHD/i7-720QM/4G/Win7Pro64 (for dad)
T43 1875-DLU: 14.1"XGA/1.7PM-740/1G/XP (Old)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:25 am 
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crashnburn wrote:
I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9400

I presume it is the same? Similar? Same drivers apply to this one?


All SK-8845s use the same chip (hidden under a glop top) and synaptics driver package.

_________________
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:06 am 
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Location: Luanda, Angola
My unit is this ...
I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9419

What is happening with it ?
1- the "Lenovo system update" keep saying me that I need to update the drivers.
2- Last "Windows 10 update" told me the same ...
In both cases I installed and updated ... First the Lenovo and later the MSFT W 10 ...
In both cases the SK-8845K trackpoint stop working... I was able to use the "keys/enter etc etc" BUT the pointing device as well as the pad device did not work.
In both cases I "uninstalled" the program from the "Control panel" and all start working again.
The strange thing is that I have another SK keyboard ( THE SK-8840 ) which works fine ...

It looks the SK-8845RC/40K9419 have some incompatibility with the driver.

Rgds

Rui


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:15 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
passaro wrote:
My unit is this ...
I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9419

What is happening with it ?
1- the "Lenovo system update" keep saying me that I need to update the drivers.
2- Last "Windows 10 update" told me the same ...
In both cases I installed and updated ... First the Lenovo and later the MSFT W 10 ...
In both cases the SK-8845K trackpoint stop working... I was able to use the "keys/enter etc etc" BUT the pointing device as well as the pad device did not work.
In both cases I "uninstalled" the program from the "Control panel" and all start working again.
The strange thing is that I have another SK keyboard ( THE SK-8840 ) which works fine ...

It looks the SK-8845RC/40K9419 have some incompatibility with the driver.

Rgds

Rui

#1
IBM (despite making these as late as 2014) does not support the SK-8845 on Windows 10. They only sell them to select corporate clients running server environments from a console in a server rack.
Lenovo (who has not manufactured these for probably over nine years) does not care and wants you to buy their latest *disgusting* PCjr-esque chiclet keyboard: http://shop.lenovo.com/ca/en/itemdetail ... 1FF88E33C7

#2
When you 'uninstall' the mismatched driver Lenovo and Windows tries to install, it reverts to using a generic driver that can operate the Synaptics Touchstyk without a problem (both the TouchStyk, Touchpad and left and right buttons scan as standard HID mouse devices under USB). The TouchStyk driver is necessary for the 'rich' features such as configuring the middle scroll button.
The SK-8840 talks over PS/2, so anything that understands PS/2 will work fine with it (because the bus is specialized specifically for a mouse and keyboard, it doesn't need a complex driver like USB, as *any* type of peripheral can be USB). Don't confuse USB and PS/2 interfaces.

#3
As per my previous notes, I would try forcefully installing Lenovo's latest (Win 10) TrackPoint driver package so that the SK-8845 starts to utilize the synaptics 'TouchStyk' portion of the driver package. All TrackPoint driver packages have two portions: one for the "regular" TrackPoint, and the other for the TouchStyk. SK-8845 and some ThinkPads (like the edge) use the TouchStyk portion. If you don't care about sensitivity and the middle button, then I would just use the generic driver.

Because I have no desire to use Windows 10 with my SK-8845, I'm not going to experiment with it myself. I got it working under Windows 8.1, and that was enough for me.

_________________
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Sleeping: 360PE, Z61t, 850


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