*) (Johan’s note): I believe that this SSD is found here with a comprehensive datasheet found here. In the datasheet (on p.16) the sequential read speed for this (32 GB) model is claimed to be 109 MB/s while the sequential write speed is claimed to be 39 MB/s (for the mSATA SSD probably mounted directly in a SATA-PC). The (4k write) benchmarks reported by Lycom however falls way short of these specifications, and the above benchmarks are absolutely, completely surprising, ridiculously poor for a SSD?!?In thier reply to me of Feb. 14, 2014, Lycom support wrote: A quick look in our lab, the following models have been tested and worked properly:
Innodisk: DRPS-32GJ11C1DN (32 GB)*)
Intel: SSDMCEAC120B3 (120 GB)**)
Plextor: PX-256M5M (256 GB)***)
The quick tests below were done on the KA790GX platform****), with Windows XP SP3 x86. See the following benchmarks:
For the Innodisk DRPS-32GJ11C1DN (32 GB):
For the Intel 525 SSDMCEAC120B3 (120 GB):
For the Plextor PX-256M5M (256 GB):
Regards,
Support Department,
LyCOM Technology, Inc.
**) (Johan’s note): This is the Intel 525 (the full “product specification” can be found here), which was launched in Q1/2013, in other words a relatively new SSD. Notice the outstanding benchmarks for this SSD recorded/reported by Lycom (for a mSATA SSD with a SATA-to-PATA adapter etc.)! Also, note the very low (claimed!) power consumption of only 300 mW (active), and 250 mW (idle). According to this Anandtech review (and this overview-table) the Intel-525 series are using the SandForce SF-2281 controller. If it was not because I have previously had so much trouble with the 1.8" Intel X18-M SATA SSD and the JM20330-based SATA-to-PATA based controller, I would not hesitate to go for the Intel 525… but… I can’t help ask myself how comphehensive Lycom did test the Intel 525 with their adapter; did they e.g. use it long enough to achieve complete confidence that it will without any doubt work, completely stable with the Lycom adapter?? That’s what I’m asking myself- and that’s why I am still hesitating a bit to just order the ‘525.
By the way, note the very fine benchmarks of the Intel 525 with the Lycom SATA-to-IDE/PATA adapter compared against the benchmarks from a SATA-modded T43p such as the one shown benchmarks for in this post: “Results from my [ajkula66’s] SATA-modded T43p (2.26GHz/2GB RAM/Intel X-25E SLC SSD)”… the Intel-525 with the Lycom SATA-to-IDE/PATA adapter is actually better on the average compared to the SATA-modded T43p with the top-notch SATA SLC SSD!
What’s also puzzling in relation to the Intel 525’s are the various boot-times reported for smaller or larger capacity SSD’s, see e.g. this comparison or this comparison. Normally I believe I have seen that the larger-capacity SSD’s were faster (at least in "pure-SATA" PC’s, with no PATA-to-SATA adapters etc.), so if going for an Intel 525, and seeking lowest boot-time then what capacity should be chosen? Spooky…!
***) (Johan’s note): The Plextor PX-256M5M uses the Marvell 88SS9187 controller; see e.g. the Storagereview.
****) (Johan’s note): I guess it must be this motherboard that they have used for their tests?
Note that the Lycom etc. adapter is available in two versions; a 7 mm high (ST-173-7) and a 9.5 mm (ST-173-9). Also note that the Lycom etc. adapter is sold (mainly in the Eastern Europe) as KOUWELL ST-173-7 … see e.g. the Youtube video: Kingston SMS200S360G mSATA SSD disk using KOUWELL ST-173-7 adapter. This Kingston SSDNow mS200 uses a LSI Sandforce 2241 controller. Its power consumption (idle: 0.4 W, read: 1.2 W ("typ."), and write: 1.8 W ("typ.")) is significantly higher than e.g. the Intel 525.
In their reply to me of Feb. 14, 2014, Aleratec, Inc. support wrote: Thank you for contacting Aleratec Support.
Unfortunately, I do not have a published list of compatible mSATA SSD's that I can send you today. However I will put together something after discussing with our engineering team that I can send you sometime Tuesday.
Aleratec did not provide me with any benchmarks for the SSD’s mentioned. Note however that the above-mentioned "approved" drives by Aleratec are completely identical to those immediately reported by by Lycom – which in my interpretation indicate that the Aleratec’s "engineering team" is actually the supporters at Lycom!… and then, replying back to me again on Feb. 21, 2014, Aleratec, Inc. support now wrote: I'm sorry the list isn't longer however so far here is what I have:
InnoDisk 32GB SATA II mSATA drive
Intel 525 Series 120GB SATA III mSATA drive
Plextor 256GB PX-256M5M SATA III mSATA drive
If there are any drives that you would like to know about please do let me know and I will try and work with engineering to get the drives qualified.
Please let me know.
The Transcend MSA720 (64 GB) is also a SF-2281 based SSD; brief specs. are found at Transcend’s site (choose “SATA III 6Gb/s mSATA (Ultimate)”) under P/N TS64GMSA720. Note the relatively high power consumption of this SSD; 2.97 W (active), 0.5 W (idle). I couldn’t find the full datasheet for this SSD, and I also can’t find any information about which ATA modes are supported?In their reply to me of Feb. 14, 2014, DeLock support wrote: Unfortunately there is no compatibility list for our hardware. For this reason, we can the requested information not provide.
In our tests became a Transcend MSA720 64 GB, mSATA 6 Gb/s (TS64GMSA720) used.
Yours sincerely,
Delock Support
… followed up by this subsequent reply:In there reply to me of Feb. 14, 2014, Addonics support wrote: I must say your message was quite amusing! I'll explain: Take a look at the product page here. By default you're looking at the overview tab. Scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page. Down there you will see an mSATA card being installed in the adapter, then the completed assembly being installed into a caddy and finally into my own personal T42p!
I tested this configuration using Fedora 19, and after the full installation was completed (including post-install setup and all updates applied), and including the extra time to get past my unit's fan failure screen (the CPU fan died about 10 years ago but the unit can still run 24/7 without ever overheating) and user login, I measured the time from power button to desktop-ready at around 20 seconds! That was with a very cheap, slow (1.5 Gbps), 32 GB mSATA card.
Unfortunately I can't specifically recommend a certain media, but I've been notified Addonics is planning on qualifying and offering some mSATA SSD devices very shortly. If you're willing to wait for that I can assure you I'll bring my T42p back in and let you know exactly what happened for me.
By the way, between my own experience with my T42p and other Addonics products that include the same SATA-IDE adapter chip, I can assure you there's little reason for concern for compatibility. I've used that chip with hard drives, DVD drives, CompactFlash cards, and mSATA (converted to IDE).
…sent to me on Feb. 19, 2014, by Addonics support, where they now wrote: There's no real reason to wait, the media I tested the adapter with on my T42p were purely arbitrary and they worked great. We use that Marvell chip in some of our products and have had very little trouble with it. Either way I'll let you know as soon as I know myself.
I have been promised to hear when (/if) Addonics start offering specific mSATA SSD’s for use with their ADMS25IDE adapter.
In this page on the German ThinkPads forum mSATA-to-PATA adapters are also discussed, incl. the DeLock 62495 (= the Lycom ST-173-7) which has been used by galloper in two T42p’s. In reply to my questions ("Q" below) about the long-term experience with this DeLock mSATA-to-IDE adapter in his ThinkPad gallopher answered ("A"):
*) (Johan’s note): With respect to checking if the drives are indeed running at maximum speed in a T42p (which is "UDMA Mode 6" and "active mode" = ATA/133), that is very easy using "HD Tune"; just see the "Info" window there… an example is shown here. Observe what "Supported" says, and what "Active" says.Dear Johan,
Thanks for your PN - I did not really expect somebody reads my post so in detail
In general, I'm really happy with the modification. At first I'll explain, that I'm running 2 T42p UXGA 15" at home for a long time now. One of these Laptops is running in somehow standard usage by my wife - 240GB SSD. The second Thinkpad runs now for approx 4…5 years as a weather station and media player and internet connection. This Laptop runs 24/7 connected. Hast 120 GB SSD. Both are upgrade with Crucial mSATA SSD, latest version (6 GBps) - and the DeLock Adapter.
Installation went very well - I was surprised how easy it was.
1) Q: What OS are you using/have you tried?
A: I've installed Win 7 Ultimate 32 bit - on both Thinkpads.
2) Q: What are your long-term experience with the DeLock 62495 and the different mSATA SSDs you know of; have your observed any peculiarities/abnormalities/stuttering/freezes or otherwise odd behavior etc. with any of these? Or: Has your setup perhaps on the contrary always functioned super-fast, purely perfectly with no issues at all?
A: There are only positive experiences - I did not experience any freeze or so - just as expected.
3) Q: Do you have any benchmarks e.g. in your T42 for any mSATA SSDs, such as e.g. from CrystalDiskMarks?
A: The Benchmark was done using HDTune. I reached approx. 80...85 Mbps data transfer rate. But the more important thing is, that there is much better feeling in the work with it - no more lagging in the "daily usage".
4) Q: Have you verified that your setup runs at full (ATA-5/UDMA-6) speed (= 133 MB/s in a T42p)? [some users cannot obtain full 133 MB/s throughput with the DeLock adapter and with some mSATA SSD's?! ... see e.g. this post and the subsequent posts by member JBUK in the same thread].
A: I don't know, how to test this - but I would check it, if you could tell how to do it?*)
5) Q: You mention that both you and your wife’s T42p are using Crucial mSATA SSD’s (a 120 GB and a 240 GB, of "latest version"). Are you able to say which specific models of the Crucial mSATA SSD’s these are? I guess these are of the Crucial M500-family and that the 120 GB is the CT120M500SSD3 and the 240 GB is the CT240M500SSD3 – is this correct?**)
A: Yes you are right, I've installed the SSD from M500 series - they came with latest firmware - no need to upgrade.
6) Q: Have you ever checked if TRIM is enabled/supported with your DeLock/Crucial setups? It’s very easy to verify; just issue the command: "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify" in an elevated command-prompt (see here). It will give you one of two results, either a 0 or a 1. A zero ("0") indicates that TRIM is enabled correctly, a one ("1") means that it is not.
A: I've tried your hint - the TRIM is enabled. The test showed a "0" as result. This (to my understanding) is the indicator, that it is working with TRIM. That also means, the degrading of the SSD is as low as possible.
Hopefully you could be as successful as I was and you will have much fun with this "renewed laptop".
Best regards, Hendrik
If it runs at a lower speed ("Active") compared to what is supported, the speed (I believe!) can be forced higher; see e.g. here or this page but I really don’t believe you will need to do anything… I am rather certain that your DeLock/Crucial setup already runs at maximum speed!
**) (Johan’s note): Datasheets for the Crucial/Micron "M500" mSATA SSD’s can be found here. These SSD’s are using the Marvell 9187 - Micron MLC controller (Marwell 88SS9187-BLD2). According to the Micron datasheet ("m500_msata_ssd.pdf") the M500 support the following ATA modes:
… and hence not UDMA 6! It would be very interesting to find similar ATA/UDMA specifications for the other mSATA SSD’s mentioned in this thread!PIO mode 3, 4
Multiword DMA mode 0, 1, 2
Ultra DMA mode 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
In this Japanese blog-post a Japanese user, Krozkin, has reported his experience with the "Kuroutoshikou KRHK-mSATA/I9" (= Lycom ST-173-9) adapter in a (PATA-based) ThinkPad X31. Through the very friendly help of forum.thinkpads.com members Rupan and zobbo I managed to get hold of an e-mail address to Krozkin, who was very kind to reply very detailed back to me, about his experience etc. Here is what I received – as a reply to the experience with this adapter, and what mSATA’s that had been tried etc., again with my questions marked with "Q" and answers marked with ”A”:
Final remark (a "related addition"?): Just stumbled over yet another adapter; Adapter SATA Seria A-ATA Festplatte an 2,5 Zoll IDE 44 Controller which looks to be identical to this: 2.5'' SATA Hard Drive Adapter to IDE ATA 44 Pin Cable (in the case that one or both of these eBay advertisement should "die"/dissapear, I've posted the relevant images here and here). By a quick glance it could seem to fit in a 15" T4x/p. The controller is the JMicron 20330 (I found this adapter first mentioned in this post to actually fit in the main T4x/p HDD-bay with a full-size 2.5" SATA drive!).Dear Johan.
Thanks for your question.
I tested some SSD for TP X31, so my interest only HPA recovery. Booting X31, push "Access Thinkpad" and GUI menu indication is excited me. (But windows xp is not useful so I have installed Windows 7 (HPA GUI menu is enable continuously).
Q: The main question is however this: What specific mSATA SSD should I get for best/fastest/most stable use with the KRHK-mSATA/I9?
A: Not tested. HPA recovery is not allowed condition, I have not tested SDD performance. Any SSD are faster than legacy HDD.
1) Q: ) What are your long-term experience with the combination KRHK-mSATA/I9 and the Intel 525 mSATA SSD, and also with the Plextor PX-128M5M setup; have your observed any peculiarities/abnormalities/stuttering/freeze's or otherwise odd behavior etc. with any of these? Or: Has your setup perhaps on the contrary always functioned super-fast, purely perfectly with no issues at all?
A: Any troubles are not happened for the moment. Super-fast? My interest is aimed for HPA.
2) Q: Do you have any benchmarks for these two setups, such as e.g. CrystalDiskMarks?
A: Benchmarks are not significant. I say repeating, SSD are fast sufficiently. But SSD (Intel, ADATA and Plextor) I tested, are not sold or in the trash-bin. If I get bench-marking time, do that (Super-Talent is rubbish. Taking off it from Thinkpad is too difficult. I do NOT install it again). Additional page (Plextor SSD only) --> Benchmarking PLEXTOR PX-128M5M+ on Thinkpad X31
3) Q: Have you verified that your setup runs at full (ATA-5 /UDMA-5) speed (= > 133 MB/s in a T42p) with both the Intel SSDMCEAC120B301 and with the Plextor PX-128M5M+? [some users cannot obtain full 133 MB/s throughput with the KRHK-mSATA/I9 adapter and with some mSATA SSD's?!?]
A: See additional page--> Benchmarking PLEXTOR PX-128M5M+ on Thinkpad X31
Using HDAT2.
Transfer mode: Max. supported Ultra DMA 6/ATA133
Transfer mode: Selected Ultra DMA 5/ATA100
4) Q: Does the HDD-LED work with the KRHK-mSATA/I9?
A: Yes. HDD access LED is enable. Blink correctly.
5) A: Have you tried other mSATA SSD's with the Kuroutoshikou adapter, or do you know of other people who have tried any other mSATA SSD's? If so, do you know their experience?
A: I do not try any SSD and/or IDE44-mSATA adapter. And any try, I don't know.
6) Q: What is/was the specific model-name of the Plextor mSATA SSD you have tried; PC-128M5M+ or PX-128M5M? (I cannot find any "PC-128M5M+" mSATA SSD's?)
A: PX-128M5M+ was. "+" is correct; see here and here. Country limitation model? No English information are found out.
Is this answer sufficient? Enjoy happy Thinkpad life!
Best regards.
- ..- . .
Krozkin
Long post, much info for readers to absorb, so all for now. I feel like having done a substantial amount of homework so far, but unfortunately I am still uncertain as to what specific mSATA SSD will be best (=fastest, completely stable) with my Addonics ADMS25IDE adapter, for use in my T42p under Windows 7? Aaaaargh!!
All educated and constructive feedback to the above is surely and kindly invited! Thanks in advance…
Johan