Now closed.

[untitled_no4]

Hi,

My T43 works perfectly if it's on a table but in some angles the system freezes but comes back to life if put it on the "right" angle or if I apply pressure on the palm rest. I always thought it was a problem with the HD connection as it seem to have started happening after changing the HD (but it's not the HD as it now happens with either), but having read some threads here I'm beginning to think it might be the GPU.

My question is whether you think it is a GPU problem or not because I'm now thinking of having it repaired as I'm thinking of selling the laptop (I can live with it but can't sell it like that).

Thanks.

[stutterer]

Hi
Like Jesper I can thoroughly recommend Nicks very reasonably priced UK-based service
having had my T40 returned excellently refurbished [replacement motherboard and
transposing processor etc from old to new, aswell as tracing a faulty memory chip].

Would use again

Many Thanks Nick

best

Jonathan

[poshgeordie]

Hi Jonathan and welcome to the forums!

Many thanks for your kind words and encouragement.

Keep an eye on the post because I didn't refit the five black plastic screw covers from under the front edge of the laptop because I needed to renew the sticky stuff on them.
The double sided sticky tape has now arrived and they are as good as new and ready to refit.
Take care and it's been a real pleasure meeting you.

Nick

[poshgeordie]

Email recommendation from S.R.S who is not a TP forums member:

For a job just completed this week:

"Nick Paton offers a great service to T4x owners with u/s machines with loose GPUs from less than perfect handling. I got a quick turnaround, good communication, reasonable prices and best of all, both my T40 and my T42 now working again. Very pleased. Many thanks, Nick!"

(Original email is on record)

[gforce]

PG, I sent you a message this past Friday. Could you get back to me asap?
Thanks.

[poshgeordie]

Hi Gforce

I've just returned this evening from a week's much needed holiday, so apologies for not replying earlier.

The office will be open tomorrow and I'll send you a reply to your PM.

All the best Nick

[beeblebrox]

I tried reflowing the Southbridge on a T42 just yesterday to test out the theory and it did not cure the 2.0 / 1.1 issue.

However I don't think the USB problem is due to the SB becoming unsoldered like the GPU, since the SB would have other problems as well - it would be too much of a coincidence to have the same set of BGA's coming detached every time.

If only it had worked though....!

I reflowed the Southbridge on several T40 and T41 (now my family all has cheap Thinkpads!) successfully. They all had no or only 1.1 USB.
Actually, the southbridge and the GPU have their problem in a very close range within half an inch on opposite sites. That's exactly the location with the highest flex of the mainboard if you hold your notebook single-handed.
The problm I have are the newer boards that have thos darn red dots around. How can I solve that? Simple Reflow does not work anymore... Any help here on that?

[poshgeordie]

The red dots can be carefully cut away using a new scalpel blade, but be careful not to damage anything (and especially your fingers).

There's plenty of evidence that the USB problem can be cured by reflowing the Southbridge (SB) Chip. There are a number of posts here about this e.g. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=48955

Also there's evidence that Intel SB chip was suseptible to to static electricity - http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_USB_2.0, and therefore needs replacing.

As it happens I'm going to do some specific work trying both reflowing as well SB chip replacement, and I'll get back with my results (if any) probably in a more appropriate thread.

[beeblebrox]

The red dots can be carefully cut away using a new scalpel blade, but be careful not to damage anything (and especially your fingers).

There's plenty of evidence that the USB problem can be cured by reflowing the Southbridge (SB) Chip. There are a number of posts here about this e.g. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=48955

Also there's evidence that Intel SB chip was suseptible to to static electricity - http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_USB_2.0, and therefore needs replacing.

As it happens I'm going to do some specific work trying both reflowing as well SB chip replacement, and I'll get back with my results (if any) probably in a more appropriate thread.

Ok folks, I had no luck with the Xacto knife and the red epoxy beads. After 20 minutes I gave up. It is just too hard and time consuming. There are a lot of electrical wires underneath. I would only damage them.
Now, I fried the chips with higher temps and longer duration. A few balls got soldered for sure. Now the board is dead and blacking the screen.

How can I get rid of the red beads? Acetone, gasoline, lighter to burn them off ?
What do professional reflower do in that case ?

Any help out there?

[poshgeordie]

Beeblebrox (Is your first name Zaphod BTW?!)

If I can answer your PM here to save repetition.

I'm not sure if an Xacto knife blade will be sharp enough, I've done it with an actual surgical scalpel blade, and with great care the dots can be cut away with great care to the board tracks. It's a case of developing the skill.

I'm not sure what type of epoxy the dots are 'made' of.
There are quite a few types which are either UV cured, heat cured at various temperatures, and air cured.
The temperature cured epoxys are the best for us potentially because infra red tools (and I guess hot air guns too) can be used to melt them again.
However the temperature required to melt previously heat cured epoxy is much higher than the temperature needed to initally cure it; so melting them in this manner isn't really feasible either.
Where this comes into its own is when removing a chip to reball it again when the higher temperature needed to sufficiently melt the BGA is about the same as that needed to melt the epoxy.

UV and air cooled are another matter and I don't know what happens if they're heated. I guess we have to assume that cutting away is the only option, no matter what you want to do with the chip afterwards.

So in short - no matter what the type of epoxy, heating temperatures are too high or possibly don't melt the dots, so if they need to be removed prior to reflowing then it looks like cutting is the only option.

[beeblebrox]

I thought about using a dremel to cut them away, but after reading the article about epoxy edge bonding and checking the chip I saw that the epoxy is underneath the chip as well for better attachment. That's impossible with the dremel.
Q: How long does it take to cut away the red dots? 1h, 30 minutes ??

I tried to heat it up, but they stay hard and do not soften.
Contrary to the clear epoxy I used on my snowboard. the heat gun made it soft.

[stevieduff]

Just a quick heads up here for Nick (poshgeordie)
I contacted Nick through these boards last wednesday after reading about his "Reflowing" service.
As i lived in the area, Nick allowed me to drop off my T42 personally(after confirming it was definitely the GPU) and gave me a reasonable quote plus a decent lead time for the repair.
For anyone who is undecided about entrusting your laptop to a complete stranger for them to heat up to hell-like temperatures, let me reassure you.
Not only was the Reflow successful, also Nick managed a two day turnaround and was polite and curteous and, took time out to explain everything to me. And also fixed a couple of other minor items at no extra cost.
I would have no qualms about using him again ,or recommending him to anyone.
Thanks Nick.
Steve

[killer]

Welcome to the forum, Steve. What a wonderful commendation of the service Nick provides. I'm sure he'll be very happy with your testimonial.

[poshgeordie]

@ stevieduff

Many thanks for your kind words Steve, much appreciated.

It's quite a novelty actually meeting a customer face to face! Hope your daughter is enjoying her new birthday present too.

All the best Nick

[poshgeordie]

@Beeblebrox
Yikes! please don't use a dremel since one tiny slip and you'll slice through the chip / board and then wish you hadn't tried it!

Sorry M8 but I use a surgical scalpel and new blade which does cut through them, and also I manage to carefully cut underneath the chip where the dot has 'bled' underneath - just be careful not to damage the BGA behind.
There's no short cuts to this, just patience and a bit of time.

I usually manage to do all of them in around 10 - 15 minutes but I have been doing it for a while now.

Like all skills you have to learn and work at it but this can be V annoying when you have only one thinkpad you have to do it on. If it takes you 30 mins or an hour then that's what it takes - sorry!

As Zaphod says: "I can't do this without my third arm!"

[beeblebrox]

Nick,
I came across a potential solution how to remove the epoxy:
"Attack Epoxy Remover"

Just google for "Attack Epoxy" and there are various dissolver for it.
I am sure there must be a more elegant way to get rid of the red beads...

let me know about the outcome if you decide to give it a try...

[poshgeordie]

Thanks for that information Beeblebrox and the PM too.

However I cannot in all conscience advise you use it because of potentially corrosive nature of the chemicals in the stuff.

In particular I haven't found any mention of what happens if it comes into contact with metal, in this case the metal solder.

There's a real danger that unless you can 110% confirm it, do not use it in the presence of metal.

Sorry M8 - I appreciate your input very much, but for the time being I'm going to stick with my scalpel blade - and at least I'm aware of the known risks to my fingers!

Get back to me with your views though

[suini]

Hi..

I just feel the need to express in public my thanks
to Nick
for re soldering the gpu to my t41

Thanks a lot Nick...

[poshgeordie]

Thanks Suini

Much appreciated. It's been great getting to know you and I'm envious of those mountains in Greece!

All the best

Nick

[Tony.Yarwood]

Hi all

I'd like to add my testimonial to Nick Paton's (poshgeordie) very reasonably priced UK-based reflow service. I got a quick turnaround, excellent service and communications.

Kind regards Nick, thanks again. Good luck in your work.

Best regards

Tony

[poshgeordie]

Hi Tony

Many thanks indeed - it's been a real pleasure meeting you.

Best regards

Nick

[sloomy]

Greetings,

how much is the memory bank repair for an A31p costing?

I have also a A31 board with non working usb, and another T40p and a T42 with ATI 9600 planars, both with typical Flexing Syndroms.

Is there any cheaper shipping possibilities to/from Germany?

Thanks a lot

s.

[poshgeordie]

Greetings,

how much is the memory bank repair for an A31p costing?

I have also a A31 board with non working usb, and another T40p and a T42 with ATI 9600 planars, both with typical Flexing Syndroms.

Is there any cheaper shipping possibilities to/from Germany?

Thanks a lot

s.

Hi Sloomy and many thanks for your message.

I've sent you a PM.

Best regards

Nick

[Robbyrobot]

I came across a potential solution how to remove the epoxy: "Attack Epoxy Remover"

Thanks for that information Beeblebrox and the PM too. However I cannot in all conscience advise you use it because of potentially corrosive nature of the chemicals in the stuff. In particular I haven't found any mention of what happens if it comes into contact with metal, in this case the metal solder.

As a chemist, I might remark on what I've found on this kind of product. It's apparently DMF (dimethylformamide), a powerful solvent. The safety data sheet indicates that you should not get it on your skin - but I have used it in the lab many times and am still alive and well. It will not attack metals and is not corrosive, but might attack the plastic of the PCB, so I wouldn't simply immerse the board in it.

I would think this would be a good way to simplify removal of the epoxy, particularly in difficultly accessible areas - certainly better than trying to scrape it out with a scalpel without softening it first. At any rate, it'd be worth a try.

[poshgeordie]

Many thanks for that RobbyR. Real experience from a chemist is exactly what is needed!

Some questions:

How long does it take to dissolve the epoxy? I've got a T42p I've got in at the moment with very hard clear epoxy in each corner and along the edges.
Trying to cut it with a new scalpel blade hardly makes a mark and certainly doesn't cut through it, so I'm going to have to refuse the work because I cannot cut through the epoxy.

How would I apply the epoxy? Would I use a cotton wool bud like this with a little of the remover on it and press it against the epoxy bead?

I cannot find it in UK / Europe, is there a commercial name or do you know somewhere I can buy some?

Could you give any other general ideas on how to use it etc.

Many thanks indeed.

[Robbyrobot]

How long does it take to dissolve the epoxy?

DMF (1,1,-dimethylformamide) wouldn't actually dissolve the epoxy, as an epoxy is crosslinked and is essentially one huge molecule, but it would soften it enough to let you scrape it out. I have no idea how long this would take, but might guess anywhere from 20 min to an hour, depending on the thickness of the epoxy.

How would I apply (it to) the epoxy?

Good question I would tend to use a wooden toothpick dipped in DMF and then apply it to the individual spots of epoxy. You might also use a small syringe with a fine needle. It might be a bit critical to use what the Americans call "Q-tips" (what you illustrated) because the DMF would soften or dissolve the plastic of the stick.

I cannot find it in UK / Europe, is there a commercial name or do you know somewhere I can buy some?

I wrote you a PM on this - basically, I'd ask a local pharmacist or try the lab supply houses in the UK. This is a common solvent and the above name in brackets is the chemical name. I'm not aware of any commercial name, although there may be one or more. At any rate, even a technical grade would be adequate for your purposes, but you probably can't buy such material in small amounts (Do you have a local chemical company with a friend in the lab? That would be ideal).

Could you give any other general ideas on how to use it etc.

I'd use rubber gloves and try to avoid getting it on my hands (it can penetrate the skin), but other than that there are no particular problems. The safety angle is emphasized nowadays, but I've worked with this many times in the lab and it's no worse than many other things. The main thing to remember is that it's a very strong solvent and can dissolve or soften nearly anything made of some kind of plastic. It's water miscible, so when you're finished you can remove it with a water-drenched "Q-tip" or the like. It also doesn't conduct electricity, so there's no danger of short circuits, although I'd try to remove it as completely as possible just because of the possible softening of the motherboard (which is a phenolic resin-impregnated paper material).

One important P.S.: I take no responsibility if someone washes his hands with this stuff or drinks it. When property used, DMF is one of the less dangerous chemicals, but everything can be misused.

[poshgeordie]

Many thanks indeed for all that information. It looks like the the epoxy question has been solved - so long as it actually works!!

I too was thinking of using a syringe since I already use them. The only thing is that since they are the plastic disposable type, I'll have to make sure I don't get 'Syringe melt-down' during mid application. I guess though that if I draw enough to just fill the needle without allowing any into the 'reservoir' I should be fine.
Failing that, a wooden spatula or the end of a matchstick should work fine too.

Thanks once again

[Robbyrobot]

The only thing is that since they are the plastic disposable type, I'll have to make sure I don't get 'Syringe melt-down' during mid application.

As far as I know, the syringes themselves are made of polyethylene, which is nonpolar and should be fairly resistant to attack by DMF (it attacks polar materials such as epoxy more readily). However, the plunger is a rubber composition and might be attacked by DMF. Seems to me I've seen some disposable syringes with polyethylene plungers, though, and those would be better for this purpose.

This link gives some information on the solubility properties of DMF.

[poshgeordie]

Thanks for that - I'll try it out when it arrives.

[poshgeordie]

I eventually received a small quantity of DMF - in the UK suppliers will only sell to bona fide businesses - and I can confirm that it does dissolve the clear epoxy found on T42 and T43 graphics chips.

However it's a very slow process. Robbyrobot said that it would take an hour for it to soften enough to scrape it away, and it takes at least that amount of time, but it does do the job.

To assist with this I found a UK company who sell very fine scalpel saw blades and these would help a lot too (this is compared to the "standard" scalpel non-serrated blade).

Details here. The item is "Blade Saw Cut Very Fine " Part No. TK10059 and fits a no. 3 scalpel handle.