1.8" SATA to 2.5" IDE converter?

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#91 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:45 am

It's an interesting item!
In the Shapeways blurb it says: It is useful for updating oldschool Thinkpads (e.g. T42)
I would (have them) expand on this, because the adapter would fit inside any A2x, A3x, T2x, T3x, T4x, R3x, R4x, R5x, X2x, X3x, Transnote and possibly quite a few even older models.
Also, I'm quite sure this thing would fit in PATA models from Dell, HP/Compaq and others.
Why limit yourself?

tomatenfisch · #92 Post by **tomatenfisch** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:47 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:I would (have them) expand on this, because the adapter would fit inside any A2x, A3x, T2x, T3x, T4x, R3x, R4x, R5x, X2x, X3x, Transnote and possibly quite a few even older models.

You are right, but I wanted to mention only approved models. For the A, T and X models I agree. But, actually I have never had a Transnote in my hands, so no clue, if the caddy will fit there. The oldest model, I could check on my own is a T21, the next one would have been a 760XD (sold it last year to a collector), where the caddy would definitely not fit.

RealBlackStuff wrote:Also, I'm quite sure this thing would fit in PATA models from Dell, HP/Compaq and others.

Oh, I'm not that sure about it. The caddy mimics the original Thinkpad HDD caddy, thus avoiding every hassle with screws on the user-side and threads (which - obviously - would be necessary) on the design-side. Actually, I thought about designing a generic 2.5" caddy, just leaving 2.5mm holes in place of the internal screw threads, but for now, I didn't. May be, that will be the next step (waiting for feedback first).

Thomas

automobus · #93 Post by **automobus** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:58 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:I would (have them) expand on this, because the adapter would fit inside any A2x, A3x, T2x, T3x, T4x, R3x, R4x, R5x, X2x, X3x, Transnote and possibly quite a few even older models.

tomatenfisch wrote:The oldest model, I could check on my own is a T21

Oh, I'm not that sure about it. The caddy mimics the original Thinkpad HDD caddy, thus avoiding every hassle with screws on the user-side and threads (which - obviously - would be necessary) on the design-side.

T20, X20, X30 use a bottom mounting hole to hold the drive in. One would need to fit a M3 nut into the gap in your caddy to make the drive hold tight. Or a 2.5mm hole and tap it with the screws. Try using it in your T21, and tell us how you secure it.

Nomgle · #94 Post by **Nomgle** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:40 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:Also, I'm quite sure this thing would fit in PATA models from Dell, HP/Compaq and others.
Why limit yourself?

Because he's designed the Shapeways holder to be the same dimensions of the 2.5" drive and the caddy together.

ie, it's bigger than a 2.5" drive, and so won't fit the caddies of the Dell, HP/Compaq and others.

It'll only fit machines that take the exact same caddy as the T42, as that's what the dimensions of the Shapeways device are based on

tomatenfisch · #95 Post by **tomatenfisch** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:46 am

automobus wrote:T20, X20, X30 use a bottom mounting hole to hold the drive in. One would need to fit a M3 nut into the gap in your caddy to make the drive hold tight. Or a 2.5mm hole and tap it with the screws. Try using it in your T21, and tell us how you secure it.

Unfortunately, I haven't got the T21 at the moment, will take a couple of weeks to get it back. However, I checked the HMMs of the types suggested for using a HDD mounting hole:

not used: A2x, R5x, T4x, X3x
not sure: A3x, R3x, R4x - Can somebody do a statement, please? Need help here.
in use: T2x, T3x, X2x - always the lower left mounting hole (bottom side, pins up) is used

For the last types I would prefer a solution, where the caddy leaves space for attaching a M3 nut from the bottom side (there should be no vertical movement of the caddy, thus securing it against lateral movement should fix the issue, right?). Would need minor changes to the design. Does anybody plan to use it in the aforementioned models, which would need this fix?

Thomas

automobus · #96 Post by **automobus** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:46 am

Oops, my mistake: X30 does not use a bottom hole, as you discovered.
I do not plan to use your caddy. I like what you are doing.

rednib · #97 Post by **rednib** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:02 am

Hi everyone. I found this forum thread while researching the same possibility of converting my T40p IDE HDD to an 1.8" SSD. I registered to post my experience below.

I ordered the JM20330 based "IDE 44 Pin to 1.8" Micro SATA Adapter" off of eBay and also found a used Toshiba 128 GB SSD on eBay for a steal, which happened to come from a more modern Thinkpad model.

The BIOS recognized it with no problems. Preliminary read benchmarks are double the speed from the previous hard drive. It's also a lot cooler and the only sound now is the CPU fan when it's running.

I do have 2 issues though.

The disk activity light next to the power LEDs on the Thinkpad no longer works when accessing the SDD. It still blinks when accessing the optical disk drive. There is a tiny blue activity LED on the SATA adapter, which works, so I don't know why the Thinkpad no longer can register activity. Does anyone have any solutions/hacks/ideas to get this working? Currently my only workaround is using the Gnome system monitor panel applet to show disk I/O activity.

The other issue is mounting the old HDD case cover to the old HDD tray that slides in, without the screw holes provided by the old HDD. I could use some thread or something, though the Shapeways caddy looks perfect, except it's pretty expensive, especially with the $25 minimum order price.

Nomgle · #98 Post by **Nomgle** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:49 pm

rednib wrote:The other issue is mounting the old HDD case cover to the old HDD tray that slides in, without the screw holes provided by the old HDD...

Just some basic kids glue works great for this !

rednib · #99 Post by **rednib** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:58 pm

Nomgle wrote:Just some basic kids glue works great for this !

Good idea, I'll try it when I get a chance. I kind of back-burnered this project as I've been busy with work and school.

Part of me wants to just bit the bullet and get a new laptop already. I also tried to upgrade to 2 GB of PC2700 but both sticks fail reading/writing after 127 MB in Memtest86+, and are unusable. Since the errors are identical, I'm pretty sure it's a BIOS/hardware limitation or compatibility issue, since the IBM specs say 2 GB of PC2700 is fine. Too bad I don't have another laptop to test them to be sure. I really don't want to order another two sticks and risk them not working either.

Now if I could only just find a new 14" laptop with a high resolution display :(

ChugokuOtaku · #100 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:40 am

I can't express how grateful I am for Shapeways having made this adapter. I got mine in the mail yesterday, and it was a perfect fit for the IDE to microSATA adapter card. Planning on picking up a 1.8" SSD at a local store today to test out in my T43, although it's actually going into my T42.

I'm surprised that those guys importing the adapter card from China aren't teaming up with Shapeways to sell it as a combo. Thirty-some dollars for the caddy+adapter card to resurrect some of the best T series ever made is a steal IMHO.

#101 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:12 am

And don't forget the SATA mod for the T43/R52 and X41 ("only" removing the SATA-PATA bridge and replacing the PATA with a SATA connector).
Having a SATA hard disk or even a SATA SSD in it is quite something!

ChugokuOtaku · #102 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:42 pm

1.8" SATA SSD now installed in T42 and working perfectly!

not sure how much of a performance penalty the SATA to IDE adapter is causing, as I don't have a microSATA to SATA adapter to bench the 1.8" SSD natively, but 4k random read/write was around 15/17 using crystaldiskmark.
WEI was rated at 6.2

I'd like to know if anyone's had any success with this on a T43/43p. Coworker of mine who's attempting to do the same on his T43 is running into some problems. He would get errors at random during installation of Win7. Is it possible that Marvell's SATA to IDE + Jmicro's IDE to SATA adapter going back and forth could cause this kinda problem?

UPDATE: unless someone can demonstrate otherwise, THE SETUP DOES NOT WORK IN T43/T43p, possibly due to issues with the chipset. I initially suspected that it maybe have been an issue with the 1.8" Samsung microSATA SSD itself. The Win7 install would never complete, and keeps throwing errors regarding problems writing to the registry. I proceeded to install Win7 onto a spare OCZ Solid in the Ultrabay caddy, everything went fine, was able to get to desktop. Cloned the Solid over to the Samsung, was stuck on the Win7 load screen forever(didn't freeze, as logo was pulsing normally), and then threw this error. I then installed the Samsung SSD into my T42(which I had success earlier with this setup using a Toshiba SSD), and was able to install Win7 all the way through!

I tested the install across two T43 units and both Win7 installations failed, throwing the same errors. I guess having SATA -> IDE and then IDE -> SATA is the culprit here.

#103 Post by **Johan** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:47 am

@ ChugokuOtaku:

Wow, thanks very much for sharing this... absolutely highly interesting!

I would however kindly ask you to please share what specific 1.8" SATA SSD's you have sucessfully tried/used in your T42 (with the above-mentioned eBay 1.8"-SATA-to-2.5"-PATA adapter)? Also, please inform what Windows 7 version you are using (or have succesfully tried); "Home Premium", "Professional", "Ultimate" or "Enterprise"? If you have tried more than one Win 7 version; did you notice any difference?

Furthermore, and equally interesting: Have you had any issues with your 1.8" SATA SSD in the T42 (with the eBay-SATA-to-PATA adapter) such as e.g. freezing during boot or freezing when awaking from sleep/hibernation? Have you updated any drivers (e.g. using ThinkVantage System Update), or did you just run with the default Win 7 installation?

Finally: If you know of other 1.8" SATS SSD's which have succesfully been used in T42/p's (apart from the SSD's which you've tried yourself), please feel free to share information about this as well - so that we can perhaps put together a "positive-list" of 1.8" SATA SSD's which we know will function with no errors in T42/p's.

PS: About the problems with 1.8" SATA SSD's in T3/p's, which you mention - maybe it is related to the issue discussed in the thread Finally - successful installation of OCZ Vertex Plus 120GB which you point to from the thread Trouble with OCZ Vertex Plus SSD 60GB installation? (yes, I know that X61's and T43's are different generation ThinkPad's, but still?).

Johan

ChugokuOtaku · #104 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:38 am

FRU 41W0520 Samsung MMCRE64G8MPP-0VAL1
FRU 45N7587 Toshiba THNSNC064GAMJ

I think both of these were stock drives that came shipped with T400s.
I cannot verify if the Toshiba also fails in the T43, since I already have it installed in my T42 and don't feel like going through the trouble of wiping and testing.

I can confirm using Win7 Enterprise, I was able to successfully complete both Windows Update as well as ThinkVantage System Update. While I've only had the T42 running for barely a week, I've yet to experience a single lock up either during operation or bootup. Sleep works fine, but I have hybernation disabled(as recommended), so can't speak for that. The Machine actually feel speedier than the Agility 2 installed through the Ultrabay caddy on my T43, but that could be due to crappier SATA to IDE chipset used in the Chinese knockoff Ultrabay caddy.

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone around me with similar setups. I'm pretty sure most decent 1.8" microSATA SSDs should work fine with the T42/p T41/p T40/p at this point. Chances are, whatever microSATA SSDs that don't work with them are probably junk, and should be avoided even in other machines(if you know what I mean, there are unfortunately plenty of "junk" SSDs out there).

In regards to the OCZ Vertex Plus thread, it's probably not the case here. The BIOS hack for the T43 only gets rid of the drive whitelisting, it doesn't unlock any additional functionality like the one for the T6x/X6x generation. I don't think the OCZ problem reported is specific to just SSDs, but rather an issue that certain HDD/SSD controllers not playing nice with southbridges only equiped with SATA 1.5Gb/s. I haven't come across any 2.5" SATA HDDs that don't play nice on SATA 1.5, but have come across quite a few 3.5" SATA HDDs that don't.

Squeeto · #105 Post by **Squeeto** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:06 pm

Interesting thread.
I don't want to step on any toes, especially for my first post but...
RunCore makes a fast 2.5 inch SSD for 44 pin IDE that is about the same price as their 1.8 micro SATA plus the ebay adapter. Wouldn't this be easier?

I know that you want the newer SATA technology but say you get 3 years from your current Thinkpad (hopefully more). In that time, this technology will be way cheaper. 5 years from now, 500 GB SATA SSD may be less than $100. You wouldn't be using the SATA drive you buy today anyway.

I didn't sign up to provoke anyone. I also have an older laptop (Compaq though) and I want to revive it with a SSD. I just wondered why you are going in this direction before I buy.

ChugokuOtaku · #106 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:37 pm

Squeeto wrote:I know that you want the newer SATA technology but say you get 3 years from your current Thinkpad (hopefully more). In that time, this technology will be way cheaper. 5 years from now, 500 GB SATA SSD may be less than $100. You wouldn't be using the SATA drive you buy today anyway.

Perhaps so, but keep in mind that most of us use SSDs strictly for OS and programs. I could be wrong, but unless you do super heavy Photoshop, Premiere, CAD, or gaming, a 500gig SSD would take a hell of a lotta ordinary programs to fill up, therefore few ppl would find that big of an SSD useful. I'd much rather get a mSATA drive for the OS plus a 1TB+ HDD for storage.

As I stated early on in the thread, it might be less of a hassle to get an IDE SSD, but two major drawbacks:

1. Cost. Even that Runcore SSD you suggested, I found it for no less than $185. I got my 64gig microSATA for $80, which comes out to be roughly $120 total with the caddy and adapter. If Runcore made one for $120 or less, I'll definitely consider it for my T43.

2. Forward compatibility. While I understand your argument that there may be little use for a current generation microSATA 3 years from now, an IDE would almost be guaranteed to have zero use by then. Plenty of motherboards today have already discarded the IDE connector. Regardless of whatever Intel has on Ivy Bridge roadmaps, I can bet money that the SATA interface will still be on our motherboards in the next 5 years. After all, some use is still better than no use.

Squeeto · #107 Post by **Squeeto** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:57 pm

My old laptop currently has a 60GB drive in it and so far I haven't filled it. Big stuff goes in my wifes laptop and 2TB drive. I see your point there. But when this old PC dies, I can't see me taking anything from it.

Just for a little information, there is this drive that may be based on the Indilinx BF controller.
64GB for $100.

http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/mydigi ... -inch-ssd/

My concern is it states 40 pin and the picture shows 44. I need 44, you do too right?
I emailed mydigitaldiscount but no answer.

ChugokuOtaku · #108 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:53 pm

Squeeto wrote:Just for a little information, there is this drive that may be based on the Indilinx BF controller.
64GB for $100.

Yeah, I came across that one too. Seriously considered getting it, but couldn't find a single review on it. Not only that, but no other store carried that drive either. Price-wise I'd say it's a steal no doubt, but no reviews plus no 4k random read/write specs means I'd rather wait for someone else to give me first hand experience.

EDIT:
While I haven't found any reviews on the PATA MyDigitalSSD 64GB Bullet Proof Pro PATA SSDs, I did find reviews from a notebook forum on the mSATA version of the drive. Apparently those SSDs use Phison controllers, same as the Patriot Torqx 2 SSDs. Over all the review showed the drive performed well for its capacity/price.

@Squeeto
did you get any reply from MyDigitalDiscount yet?

Squeeto · #109 Post by **Squeeto** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:04 pm

ChugokuOtaku wrote: @Squeeto
did you get any reply from MyDigitalDiscount yet?

Since it is now Monday, the Live Chat was working so I reported that I am still waiting for a response to my question. I was told to send it to Doug in tech. services. Hopefully I will have an answer soon.

Squeeto · #110 Post by **Squeeto** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:21 am

Doug (tech. services) has fixed the problem.
MyDigitalSSD drives are now stated as 44 pin.

I have ordered one.
It needs to get to Canada but I will let you know when I get it.

ChugokuOtaku · #111 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:53 pm

Squeeto wrote: I have ordered one.
It needs to get to Canada but I will let you know when I get it.

Awesome! Please post benchmarks once you get it.

Squeeto · #112 Post by **Squeeto** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:03 am

ChugokuOtaku wrote: Please post benchmarks..

Okay; what software will I need?

ChugokuOtaku · #113 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:08 am

Squeeto wrote:Okay; what software will I need?

AS SSD
CrystalDiskMark
ATTO
HD Tach

All of them are freeware.

Squeeto · #114 Post by **Squeeto** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:00 pm

Okay, this is not the SSD. I thought I would include my current "dino"-drive for a comparison.

Atto:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... atto01.png

HD Tach:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... Tach02.png

Wow, for todays standards, this drive is slowwww.

Forget the results from AS_SSD and CDM, they are more extensive and with the speed of this drive, I will be waiting for an hour (maybe more).

Squeeto · #115 Post by **Squeeto** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:59 am

Drive came:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... /ssd01.png
The label (sticker) still says 40 pin though.

Here it is mounted:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... /ssd02.png

AS SSD didn't work since this is a new install of XP. It probably needs .NET to make it work.

Atto:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... to_ssd.png

CDM:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... DM_ssd.png

HD Tach:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... ch_ssd.png

This is tested on XP with an AMD Athlon 64, 3000+.

ChugokuOtaku · #116 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:18 am

can you confirm if you have it in PIO or DMA mode?
those numbers look awfully low, especially the 4K random write is absolutely terrible.

Also, since you have XP running, did you make sure that the partition was properly aligned?

EDIT:

WOW... this came as a bit of a shocker.
Doug over at MyDigitalDiscount just got back to my inquiries regarding the SSD controllers used in their IDE SSDs, and apparently it confirms the numbers you got:

Yes, we're using the Phison controllers, however, right now, the IDE controller in our SSDs are barely any faster than the spinning drive in your laptop now. We're currently speaking with the manufacturer about putting the new S5 controller with a bridge in there to try and get those maxed out IDE speeds, but nothing had happened yet. So for right now, our IDE SSD is only a reliability, durability, and energy efficient upgrade, not speed.

I didn't wanna call him a liar or anything, but the benchmarks you got is nowhere near the advertised speeds for that drive on their site.

It also means that even when they "fix" the speed issue with the bridge, us T43 users probably still can't use it due to the implementation of the bridge.

Squeeto · #117 Post by **Squeeto** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:55 am

ChugokuOtaku wrote: It also means that even when they "fix" the speed issue with the bridge, us T43 users probably still can't use it due to the implementation of the bridge.

At least you now know. Sorry.

I know that this is your thread but permit me to hijack it a while longer. I need to ask a few questions to just make sure I can get the most of this drive.

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo22 ... ve/dma.png

Also, I installed the drive with no master/slave jumpers and I partitioned it to C: and D: with D: as a logical drive. I formatted D: from the newly installed XP. Did I do this correctly for a SS drive?

ChugokuOtaku · #118 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:06 am

haha, you're hardly hijacking it

if anything, I have to thank you for being the first person to provide a benchmark of this drive that I'm sure many others have also considered.

by the sound of it, your partitions are not properly aligned.
Easiest way of doing it would be to use a Win7 32bit installation DVD/USB to partition the drive first, quit the installation, and then install XP onto your preset partitions. You should at least see improvements on your 4k random read/write once your partitions are 4k aligned.

Squeeto · #119 Post by **Squeeto** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:58 am

Still partition D: as logical or primary?

ChugokuOtaku · #120 Post by **ChugokuOtaku** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:13 pm

Squeeto wrote:Still partition D: as logical or primary?

In your setup it won't really matter. Keep it logical to be safe I guess.

1.8" SATA to 2.5" IDE converter?

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