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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:39 pm
by jhonyl
Hi, I ran Prime95 to get the temps up, and then I stoped prime95 when it got to 'highest 55', and then I let it cool. It cooled down to 47 and stoped and so I wanted to cool it more so I put it on 7 until it got to highest 41. Then I just lowered the fan from 7 to zero to hear/see the difference. 6,7 were the same about 4300 rpm. 5,4,3@3700rpm. And 2,1@2900rpm. But then to make sure I played with it again, and punched in the numbers and some how I got to punch in 96, which got me to 5700 rpm, which got me thinking... there are numbers after 7 hip hip. A quote from the log is below. One more thing, it seems to me that the fan speed in smart mode is determined only by the temps, and not like the BIOS which starts the fan at one temp and stops it at a temp which is lower then the start temp i.e it takes into account the current fan state, if it is on it let it do a little more before it get to move to a lower state.
Code: Select all
[12/4/2005 10:34:30 PM] Fan: 0x00 / Highest: 50°C (50 46 36 48 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:34:31 PM] Smart: Set fan control to 0x03, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:34:45 PM] Fan: 0x03 / Highest: 55°C (55 46 36 48 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:34:45 PM] Smart: Set fan control to 0x04, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:36:01 PM] Fan: 0x04 / Highest: 50°C (49 45 34 50 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:36:01 PM] Smart: Set fan control to 0x03, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:36:45 PM] Fan: 0x03 / Highest: 47°C (46 45 34 47 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:36:45 PM] Smart: Set fan control to 0x00, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:37:11 PM] Fan: 0x00 / Highest: 47°C (45 45 33 47 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:37:11 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x07, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:39:56 PM] Fan: 0x07 / Highest: 43°C (41 43 32 43 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:39:56 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x06, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:40:14 PM] Fan: 0x06 / Highest: 43°C (41 43 32 43 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:40:15 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x05, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:40:26 PM] Fan: 0x05 / Highest: 43°C (41 43 32 43 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:40:26 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x04, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:40:44 PM] Fan: 0x04 / Highest: 43°C (41 43 31 43 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:40:44 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x03, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:41:04 PM] Fan: 0x03 / Highest: 43°C (41 42 31 43 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:41:04 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x02, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:41:20 PM] Fan: 0x02 / Highest: 42°C (41 42 31 42 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:41:20 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x01, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:41:22 PM] Fan: 0x01 / Highest: 42°C (41 42 31 42 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:41:22 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x0b, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:41:25 PM] Fan: 0x0b / Highest: 42°C (41 42 31 42 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:41:25 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x01, Result: OK
[12/4/2005 10:41:44 PM] Fan: 0x01 / Highest: 42°C (41 42 31 42 33 n/a 30 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[12/4/2005 10:41:44 PM] Smart: Set fan control to 0x00, Result: OK
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:57 pm
by Shimodax
One more thing, it seems to me that the fan speed in smart mode is determined only by the temps, and not like the BIOS which starts the fan at one temp and stops it at a temp which is lower then the start temp i.e it takes into account the current fan state, if it is on it let it do a little more before it get to move to a lower state.
In Smart mode FC also has different triggers for on and off (otherwise the fan would quickly go on/off all the time while the temp hovers +- 1°C).
With Smart fan goes on at a certain level and only goes off if it was cooled down to the trigger of the *previous* level.
Markus
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:31 pm
by gzt036
Is PCI (CX1) sensor important on T43? What's the suggested value for this sensor, e.g, is 51C turn on the fan Ok?
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:55 pm
by jhonyl
Shimodax wrote:
In Smart mode FC also has different triggers for on and off (otherwise the fan would quickly go on/off all the time while the temp hovers +- 1°C).
With Smart fan goes on at a certain level and only goes off if it was cooled down to the trigger of the *previous* level.
Ah, you are right. I took a better look at it and it seems that your program and IBM BIOS does the same thing. BTW the IBM BIOS setting from what I know are (in your *.ini semantics):
Code: Select all
BIOS does:
Level= 41 0
Level= 46 1
Level= 59 3
Couldn't get higher temps, well I think it is because of that darn NHC ... well I'll turn it off next time I test
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:13 pm
by Shimodax
Btw, someone seems to have found the C1 sensor. Follow this link and click on the pictures.
http://thinkpad-forum.de/forum/viewtopi ... 9286#29286
Markus
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:53 am
by Shimodax
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:41 pm
by Shimodax
Well, I purchased a can of cooling spray today. First results without opening the machine indicate 0xC2 is near the grill below the Esc-F3 keys. The currently still unknown 0x7A cools down if I spray into the PCMCIA slot (also makes sense to place a sensor there, I'd say it is on the mainboard below the slots).
Markus
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:50 pm
by christopher_wolf
Isn't that 0xC2 Sensor then near the Blutooth Device, then? I haven't opened up my T43 to check; but last picture I saw of an opened up Thinkpad, that was where the Bluetooth chip was.
Also, the PCMCIA port on the T43 is a major inlet for the fan, so this could be a sot of inlet temperature sensor; perhaps it monitors the incoming air to get a sense of the ambient air temperature and change a thermal management profile in the EC somehow? Just a thought.
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:42 pm
by Shimodax
Christopher,
the C2 is very likely power supply. It heats when charging batteries and is in the general area of the power inlet.
With the 7A I guess it's more likely to check thermal situation of PCMCIA cards. I had a of these over the years (modem, wlan) and all got quite hot when used. Makes sense to measure them IMHO.
Will probably open the case tomorrow together with a friend. I guess when we're ready, we'll know all those little buggers
Markus
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:59 pm
by christopher_wolf
Ah, I see what you mean; got confused between southward and below. Sorry
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:24 am
by Shimodax
Okay, here are my results (T43 2668)
Sensor locations:
Orignal pic:
Details of some sensors:
Markus
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:26 am
by K. Eng
Wow this is great! So far no compatibility problems on my T40 (see signature)
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:06 pm
by NeoteriX
Fantastic job, Markus! The Thinkpad looks beautiful opened up
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:14 pm
by K. Eng
From using this utility, I can say conclusively that use of WiFi significantly raises internal temperatures in the T4x.
With my 802.11abg card on, the APS and GPU sensors read 39 at idle, with the fan at full power (7). CPU is 33.
With the wifi card off, CPU is still 33, but APS is 35 and GPU is 36
This may explain why my fan ran constantly with WiFi on, but sometimes not with WiFi off.
My conclusion is that IBM made some minor errors in implementing the T4x cooling system. First, the fan is programmed to run when certain sensors like APS and GPU reach certain temperature values. The problem is that in some T4x systems, having the fan on doesn't really help cool down the areas near those sensors.
Systems with the short fan have no way of cooling off the GPU with the fan. And there's no way to quickly get rid of the heat from WiFi cards.
I'm hoping that the next generation WiFi (Intel 3945ABG) will run cooler than current WiFi cards
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:59 am
by Shimodax
In the T40 there are probably two sensors below the WLAN board. One should be inside the Southbridge chip, the other on the mainboard about 1-2cm left of it (see a t40 here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0 )
And the C1 sensor goes on at 43°C which happens quite quickly with all those chips around and no airflow.
Markus
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:59 am
by Shimodax
K, Neo and all
Thanks for your kind words!
Markus
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:49 am
by frogla
K. Eng wrote:From using this utility, I can say conclusively that use of WiFi significantly raises internal temperatures in the T4x.
With my 802.11abg card on, the APS and GPU sensors read 39 at idle, with the fan at full power (7). CPU is 33.
With the wifi card off, CPU is still 33, but APS is 35 and GPU is 36
This may explain why my fan ran constantly with WiFi on, but sometimes not with WiFi off.
My conclusion is that IBM made some minor errors in implementing the T4x cooling system. First, the fan is programmed to run when certain sensors like APS and GPU reach certain temperature values. The problem is that in some T4x systems, having the fan on doesn't really help cool down the areas near those sensors.
Systems with the short fan have no way of cooling off the GPU with the fan. And there's no way to quickly get rid of the heat from WiFi cards.
I'm hoping that the next generation WiFi (Intel 3945ABG) will run cooler than current WiFi cards
I have the same experience; With WiFi on - both surfing the net and running iTunes/airTunes at the same time - , the GPU/PCI tp rises to 50-51 °C very quiclky, and the fan is not able to reduce the tp, not even when using Manual level 7 for over 20 min .
When turning on the two fans in the alu cooling pad, however, the tp comes down to 46-48°C = fan level 0 in just a couple of minutes ( rom tp 22.3 °C ) and everything is " cool"
again-
T43p 2668-F8G ( 2.0GHz , 2 GB RAM , ATI V3200 128MB , 60GB 7200 RPM , 15" UXGA , Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2925ABG (battery/power saving modus on , SMC router 11Mbps ) )
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:06 pm
by geobel
K.Eng,
You have essentially same T40 as mine, do you get signals from all sensors?
In my T40 the last four sesors are either absent or not read:
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)
XC3 0°C (0xc3)
George
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:10 pm
by Shimodax
geobel wrote:K.Eng,
You have essentially same T40 as mine, do you get signals from all sensors?
In my T40 the last four sesors are either absent or not read:
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)
XC3 0°C (0xc3)
I think this is normal. Other older models also don't have them. Maybe the reason why they're reported to behave better with the fan anyway because as I currently see it the PCI (0xC1) is what mostly triggers the fan on the later models quite early.
I'll exclude the 0°C values in the next release.
Markus
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:27 pm
by geobel
Shimodax wrote:
I'll exclude the 0°C values in the next release.
Markus
Markus, thanks a lot for comment (and program of course!). Would it be possible to prevent warning message to be written to system log every 5 s? Well, that's definitely not urgent but desirable fix.
George
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:01 am
by K. Eng
I have the same results as you. Those sensors do not get readings on my T40. I think the T40 does not have those sensors on the system board.
geobel wrote:K.Eng,
You have essentially same T40 as mine, do you get signals from all sensors?
In my T40 the last four sesors are either absent or not read:
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)
XC3 0°C (0xc3)
George
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:36 pm
by gzt036
it's suprising to know on z60t the fan has levels running at 1800 and 2800 rpm. Is it possible to run such speed at T43? should we ask IBM to update their bios or EC for what matters?
Second, can one show me how to disable wifi on T43 by switch if there is one?
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:22 pm
by christopher_wolf
Well, The Z60t has a much different heat reponse characteristic I would imagine; what would be sufficient on a Z60t might not be on a T43. Since there is more area in the Z60t and more space for air flow, I imagine that the fan in the Z60t has a slightly easier job than the one in the T43, just looking at it from a thermodynamic standpoint. Oh, Fn+F5 should bring up a window where you can disable the WiFi and/or the Bluetooth.
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:53 pm
by pipspeak
Here's my data from a T43 (2668-75U), attached to a port replicator and DVI monitor, battery removed (in the hope of keeping the machine cooler), moderate use:
CPU 40°C (0x78)
APS 40°C (0x79)
PCM 28°C (0x7a)
GPU 45°C (0x7b)
BUS 40°C (0xc0)
PCI 42°C (0xc1)
PWR 42°C (0xc2)
The bios-controlled fan is currently running at about 3300 rpm (and gently pulsing)... makes me jealous to see the low, low speeds of the Z60 fan!
When I started the fan control utility in passive mode, the fan state was "0x0Y (Fan Level Y, Non Bios)"... what does that indicate? In the readme notes it said 0x80 (bios-controlled) was prefereable.
Thanks for this utility... I currently just use it to monitor the temperatures and only tweak the fan if it starts to annoy me. So far I haven't used the smart control option.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:52 am
by pipspeak
Is it just me, or have others noticed that the T43 bios seems to choose fan speed at random?
On Bios control, my fan was on, then switched off completely, then went back on again and has stayed on even after all the sensor temperatures fell below the levels they were at when the fan went off.
Strange.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:45 pm
by christopher_wolf
It could be monitoring heat build up and the overall second and third derivatives of the heat response curve to try and head off any more heat build up. But I think that the on/pff thresholds are not equal. For example, it can go past 52 Degrees Celsius, fan comes on, then the system cools off; it goes down. Yet the fan will not turn off until it hits something like 50 or 49 or 48 Degrees Celsius as an "off" threshold. It seems as if they have implemented a form of PID or a Discrete Temperature Controller in the system.
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:31 pm
by CoolDragon
On my system, it seems that the hottest spot is always the GPU and PCI.
I set the fan control to be "Balance all" to make the GPU work at "Battery Optimized" even when plugged in, since I never play games.
Normal usage will make the reading:
Fan: 0x01 / Highest: 54 (51 49 41 54 37 n/a 31 n/a 49 54 49 n/a)
After one hour of DivX movie watching, the GPU will be at 59 normally which is the highest one.
One thing I noticed is that with the BIOS fan mode, which will always keep my fan at level 3, does not reduce the GPU temperature.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:39 am
by riceboy54
Also, anybody consider sharing their settings on a z60t (which sensors are safe to ignore)?
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:38 am
by simms
Successful on a T40 2374-PU2.
Some symptoms I found were 3 0C values, and the fan levels go from 1/2 3/4/5 6/7.
Anyone else running a T40, my highest temps are APS and GPU around 44-46C. Are these safe to ignore and what are your fan levels set at?
Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:23 am
by aki
t40p here, 1.6ghz and yes gpu is the highest among other. my cpu runs att 600mhz with 37celcius. GPU is about 45-50 sometimes
