Thinkpads Forum

Vista has just got to go ... I'm backed up to an external and my plan is to install a new fresh drive and install Win 7 from scratch. Good plan ? What are the gotcha's ?

I have the OS, a spare caddy and a fresh drive. FWIW - The caddy was previously used a couple of years ago when I movced to a larger HD.

Thanks, Mal

4mal wrote:Vista has just got to go ...

Why?

Here is the step-by-step progress of my installation of Windows 7.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=101643

There are two different on-line system update programs...
1) Microsoft System Update, used mainly for keeping Windows 7 current.
2) Lenovo Update, used mainly for keeping Windows 7 hardware device drivers current with T61 hardware.

You may wish to hold on to your old Vista HD (which contains install programs for Lenovo Utilities).
1) My function keys no longer work as before.
2) I still haven't figured out how to install Battery Maximizer.
3) I still haven't installed other Lenovo Utilities such as PC Doctor.

I just spent some time updating my recently acquired T60 with all the Vista updates. It's been running Vista since it was first deployed in 2007, but it didn't even have SP1 yet.

I have to say, once you get the updates sorted out, it's really not that bad.

pianowizard wrote: Why?

Uh, too much overhead. I'm using Win 7 at work and the quick up and down is very much more fun... My t61 is being dedicated to audio. Stability is a huge deal for me. The T61 will be part of my PA, networked to my audio mixer and allowing a capture during live performnc and iPad remote control of the mixer functions. So, my hope is to configure Win7 in lite and tight mode in the interest of stabilty and throughput.

Robert123, thanks for the link. i'll review that when I'm fresher. Just back in from rehearsal.

I did a Win7-64bit clean install.
It worked just fine.
Lenovo has instructions to do the clean install, and that is what I followed. I used their program to install all the drivers in the proper order, so I did not hassle with individual drivers.

In prep for the install I maxed the RAM and upgraded the HD.
- I maxed out the RAM to 8GB, so I would not have to throw away RAM if I later needed to up the RAM. 2GB was too confining. And I wanted to go 64 bit so that removed the 4GB limit for the 32 bit OS.
- I put in a 7k rpm Seagate HD drive. The 7k rpm drives have better performance and surprisingly draw less power than the 5400rpm drives.
You also have to think about how you want the HD partitioned, if at all. I do 2 partitions; C: = system and E: = data (D: is the DVD drive).

ac12 wrote:I did a Win7-64bit clean install.
It worked just fine.
Lenovo has instructions to do the clean install, and that is what I followed. I used their program to install all the drivers in the proper order, so I did not hassle with individual drivers.

In prep for the install I maxed the RAM and upgraded the HD.
- I maxed out the RAM to 8GB, so I would not have to throw away RAM if I later needed to up the RAM. 2GB was too confining. And I wanted to go 64 bit so that removed the 4GB limit for the 32 bit OS.
- I put in a 7k rpm Seagate HD drive. The 7k rpm drives have better performance and surprisingly draw less power than the 5400rpm drives.
You also have to think about how you want the HD partitioned, if at all. I do 2 partitions; C: = system and E: = data (D: is the DVD drive).

+1 on all of this, esp. on 8GB RAM (I also got 500GB HD). I've done all this last fall. Not a single problem (but I haven't had any with Vista either).

Do clean install, download all drivers that Windows Update offers. I haven't install ANY Lenovo software found by Lenovo update except drivers and utilities for Fn keys etc. None of the WiFi managers, PC Doctors, Power managers.

did the upgrade find the fingerprint reader and firewire port ? The firewire port is especially important for me in this application as that is how the mixer and laptop will network.

I do use the FP reader, so yes it works.
But I don't have a firewire device, so have not tested the FW port. Seeing as how everything else worked, I don't doubt that the FW port also works, but I will have to find a FW device to test it.

4mal wrote:did the upgrade find the fingerprint reader and firewire port? The firewire port is especially important for me in this application as that is how the mixer and laptop will network.

I don't have either of these 2.

4mal wrote:did the upgrade find the fingerprint reader and firewire port ? The firewire port is especially important for me in this application as that is how the mixer and laptop will network.

FWIW, after installing Windows 7 on my X60 tablet (and maybe after Windows Update), the drivers for both FPR and firewire controller (Ricoh 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller) are automatically installed.

Well on my 2nd T61 install, I ran into a problem.
I can't seem to install the old battery maximizer. Where I could specify what level to let the battery discharge down to before starting to charge and what level to stop.

When I right click on the battery, I don't see that option in the list.

I installed the latest Lenovo Power Management Driver for Win7, v1.67.12.14 dated 8/1/16
But I can't find a listing in the Lenovo site under T61 Win7-x64 for the Battery Maximizer.

Did they drop that feature, or did I not install the right software?

ac12 wrote:I installed the latest Lenovo Power Management Driver for Win7, v1.67.12.14 dated 8/1/16
But I can't find a listing in the Lenovo site under T61 Win7-x64 for the Battery Maximizer.

Did they drop that feature, or did I not install the right software?

There's Power Management Driver, and Power Manager (Utility). The latter replaced what was known as "Battery Maximizer" in the IBM days. You need both installed.

My R61FL - which is for the purposes of this conversation identical to an Intel-based T61 - runs some old versions, namely 1.55 for the driver and 3.04 for the utility itself, but I'm not updating any of them since it works the way I want it to...

HTH.

Thanks, I think I will try to deinstall the utility and update the driver with the older one that I used on the first T61.
It worked there so why update.

Power Manager is functionally the same as Battery Maximizer as far as I know and you can set custom battery charge thresholds.

pianowizard wrote:Why?

Win7 has no stability advantages and very little boot time advantages over Vista. However, it has lots of compatibility advantages with modern hardware and software. Microsoft has been slowly killing Vista by withholding new technology support from it, and the hardware vendors have been following suit with driver for new hardware. The latter is irrelevant since we are talking about a legacy system here, but the former means that you don't get support for Office 2013 and later, Visual Studio 2012 and later, Internet Explorer 11, and any software that depends on these and other key components.

Third party software vendors have also been very happy to ditch Vista support even when there is no technical reason to do, if only to save themselves the validation/support overhead, given Vista's negligible user base.

So down the road, Vista's compatibility will fall further and further behind, and in fact, will be only a notch above XP. Win7, on the other hand, managed to catch a lot of the key technologies, which means that it will remain useful for years to come, even though at this point no new features will be added to it (since it's out of mainstream support).

dr_st wrote:

pianowizard wrote:Why?

Win7 has no stability advantages and very little boot time advantages over Vista. However, it has lots of compatibility advantages with modern hardware and software. Microsoft has been slowly killing Vista by withholding new technology support from it, and the hardware vendors have been following suit with driver for new hardware. The latter is irrelevant since we are talking about a legacy system here, but the former means that you don't get support for Office 2013 and later, Visual Studio 2012 and later, Internet Explorer 11, and any software that depends on these and other key components.

Third party software vendors have also been very happy to ditch Vista support even when there is no technical reason to do, if only to save themselves the validation/support overhead, given Vista's negligible user base.

So down the road, Vista's compatibility will fall further and further behind, and in fact, will be only a notch above XP. Win7, on the other hand, managed to catch a lot of the key technologies, which means that it will remain useful for years to come, even though at this point no new features will be added to it (since it's out of mainstream support).

+1 to this. There's a lot of lore surrounding Vista that has many people convinced that it's a poorer performer than 7. The reality is that they're pretty much equal though, except for the reasons that Dr. ST already pointed out and the fun Windows 7-exclusive features (Aero snap, better wallpaper scaling, improved start search, etc.). If you can live without those features, then 7 isn't worth the expense, but if you can't, then it probably is.

SurrealMustard wrote: There's a lot of lore surrounding Vista that has many people convinced that it's a poorer performer than 7. The reality is that they're pretty much equal though, except for the reasons that Dr. ST already pointed out and the fun Windows 7-exclusive features (Aero snap, better wallpaper scaling, improved start search, etc.). If you can live without those features, then 7 isn't worth the expense, but if you can't, then it probably is.

Realistically, the biggest deal for anyone interested in keeping a *61 system relevant is the lack of TRIM in Vista. There's next to no reason not to migrate to SSDs nowadays, and all of the ones currently produced require TRIM...

ajkula66 wrote:

SurrealMustard wrote: There's a lot of lore surrounding Vista that has many people convinced that it's a poorer performer than 7. The reality is that they're pretty much equal though, except for the reasons that Dr. ST already pointed out and the fun Windows 7-exclusive features (Aero snap, better wallpaper scaling, improved start search, etc.). If you can live without those features, then 7 isn't worth the expense, but if you can't, then it probably is.

Realistically, the biggest deal for anyone interested in keeping a *61 system relevant is the lack of TRIM in Vista. There's next to no reason not to migrate to SSDs nowadays, and all of the ones currently produced require TRIM...

Vista and 7 are lightweight enough that a quick mechanical drive is just fine. Even Windows 10 soldiers on just fine with it, but for folks who insist on SSD, 7 or newer is going to be the safest bet. Otherwise, third-party and manufacturer-provided programs may be able to perform the Trim as well.

SurrealMustard wrote:

dr_st wrote:Win7 has no stability advantages...

+1 to this....

Guys, I asked "why?" four and a half years ago, when it wasn't obvious at all why anyone would find 7 more desirable than Vista. Below is the OP's answer to my question, to which I somehow never responded:

4mal wrote:Uh, too much overhead. I'm using Win 7 at work and the quick up and down is very much more fun... My t61 is being dedicated to audio. Stability is a huge deal for me.

Stability is actually the main reason that I preferred Vista SP2 over 7. In my experience with >100 computers, the four most stable Windows versions are 2000, Vista, 8 and 8.1, whereas XP, 7 and 10 have given me a lot more stability problems. If 8.1 had a better user interface, I would probably consider it the best OS ever and would still have it on most of my current computers.

SurrealMustard wrote:Vista and 7 are lightweight enough that a quick mechanical drive is just fine. Even Windows 10 soldiers on just fine with it, but for folks who insist on SSD, 7 or newer is going to be the safest bet. Otherwise, third-party and manufacturer-provided programs may be able to perform the Trim as well.

Colour me spoiled...SSDs are one of the very few aspects of daily computing that I find absolutely necessary when running on newer (dual core of any kind) hardware. I currently have a 7200rpm spinning drive in my X200T, and while one could argue that it's fast enough - especially on a machine that doesn't get much use - I can't wait to throw an SSD in there.

Yes, some of the SSD manufacturers provide their own GC utilities which can be used to offset the lack of TRIM in Vista. However, not all of them do.

pianowizard wrote:Stability is actually the main reason that I preferred Vista SP2 over 7. In my experience with >100 computers, the four most stable Windows versions are 2000, Vista, 8 and 8.1, whereas XP, 7 and 10 have given me a lot more stability problems. If 8.1 had a better user interface, I would probably consider it the best OS ever and would still have it on most of my current computers.

I'd argue that Vista was the prettiest-looking OS that MS ever come out with, and yes, once updated to SP2 it's actually very usable. Having said that, I still like W7 better and I've never really experienced any stability problems with it. XP, on the other hand...let's not even go there...

In my current setup, the older single-core systems are running W2K - my favourite OS of all times - while the newer ones are on W7 64. Apart from adding a *nix distro - or three - in the mix, I'm fairly certain that not much will change in the foreseeable future.

As always, YMMV.

I don't find SSD necessary. A 7200rpm hard drive can still boot Windows 10 fast enough. 5400rpm is still acceptable but it does make a difference. Windows 7 removed some animations from Windows Vista but in my A30 they don't have much speed difference. Vista's basic look is much more awful than Windows 7. Also now some programs won't work on Vista anymore. However, I need the modern feel of Windows 10 so that is why I only left non-NX capable machines into W7 and T43 or above into Windows 10

On the subject of prettiness, I present:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows- ... -or-vista/
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows- ... windows-7/

kfzhu1229 wrote:I don't find SSD necessary. A 7200rpm hard drive can still boot Windows 10 fast enough. 5400rpm is still acceptable but it does make a difference. Windows 7 removed some animations from Windows Vista but in my A30 they don't have much speed difference. Vista's basic look is much more awful than Windows 7. Also now some programs won't work on Vista anymore. However, I need the modern feel of Windows 10 so that is why I only left non-NX capable machines into W7 and T43 or above into Windows 10

Same here. What I've found is that performance can vary dramatically from drive to drive, with newer models generally being the better performers. Even a fast 5400RPM drive is adequate. Rotation speed isn't everything.

I have a Seagate 7200rpm 250gb Ultra ATA hard drive and its stock 7200rpm WD 40gb Serial ATA hard drive in my Dell OptiPlex GX520, the Ultra ATA one is faster than that Serial ATA one - as long as you use the Ultra ATA cable, before I upgraded the Serial ATA one.