thinkpads.com Support Community Forum Index Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Open Forum - The Original Thinkpad Support Forum
Follow ThinkpadsForum on Twitter
 Support this forum, shop at newmodeus.com
 Support the forum, shop at newmodeus.com
System backups occur about 7:00 am EDT and last about 10 minutes. This will slow performance. RSS feeds have been added to the forum.
Donate if you wish to:
bill at thinkpads dot com

It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:19 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:30 pm 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
Just today, my laptop crashed while maximising a mkv HQ video.
Upon forced reboot, it no longer showed anything on the screen. The screen did backlit, but with nothing on it. But the laptop seems to be booting just fine so I suspect if I had an external screen, I could connect it to VGA out and carry on.

Anyway, it looks to be Nvidia-related. I took the laptop apart and checked if screen connection with the mobo is find, but it seems to be in order. I disconnected the small battery to see if BIOS reset will solve it, but no. Neither did switching with keyboard shourtcut between internal and external display (it only lights-up the back light).

This is ThinkPad R61 with Nvidia Quadro M140

So, few questions:
1. Do you know what could be causing it?
2. Would it be covered by Lenovo`s replacement program of laptops with manufacturing defects in nvidia chips?
3. If so, where should I take it to next? I am in France.
4. If not, what are my repair options - of course if you suspect what could have happened.

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Last edited by Lockheed on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:56 pm 
Offline
RBS10000
RBS10000

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:17 am
Posts: 13401
Location: Mt. Cobb, PA USA
1) the nVidia chip breaking down inside the chip itself. Well documented all over the T6x forum.
2) No.
3) Nowhere.
4) Replace the motherboard either with the same type, but produced in or after August 2008, or replace with a matching mobo with Intel graphics.

_________________
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)

Check out The Board Room for:
- LED-mods for the 15" T60/R60/R61
- SATA-mods for any T43/R52 with ATI GPU
- other Services


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:21 pm 
Offline
Freshman Member

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:14 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Montreal, Canada
I just went through the same scenario as the OP with my T61, computer started rebooting when doing some intense video work, followed by a blank image on screen with the backlight on. Replacing the board with one with Intel graphics was very easy and I would recommend going that route.

_________________
T61 -- T7300 4GB W7Px64
X200 - P8600 4GB W7Px64


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:20 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Lockheed wrote:
2. Would it be covered by Lenovo`s replacement program of laptops with manufacturing defects in nvidia chips?

Lenovo was replacing out of warranty laptops (or repairing the chip issue or whatever), but that program had ended.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:42 pm 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
So is it definite that this is the case? The laptop n ever rebooted itself before.
Is it possible to still use it on vga out?

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:10 pm 
Offline
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Posts: 5612
Location: Israel
Strictly speaking, your symptom (backlight on, no image, laptop working) can also be caused by a loose or damaged cable between the motherboard and the LCD. But the odds of something like this happening out of the blue without the machine going through some physical shock are small.

Assuming it is the nVidia issue, then it does not always manifest itself the same way. It is possible that the VGA output will work just fine, and the machine will be generally stable. It is also possible the VGA is busted too and/or the machine will be crashing often even if it somewhat works. No way to know other than to test and see.

_________________
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X61 7673-V2V
Collectibles: X32 w/ IPS Screen, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:13 am 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
I contacted Lenovo and they say they are unaware of such replacement program, finished or not.
They want me to give them a link to some mention of it on do an official Lenovo website. Do you know of one?

Also, I read somewhere that t61s produced on and after August 08 are supposed to be free from this nvidia issue. My r61 is from August '08. What do you think?

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:17 am 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
I contacted Lenovo
Quote:
As discussed on the phone, I understand from reading news reports on Lenovo support forums and other web blogs that Lenovo has agreed to honor it's world-wide committment to high quality customer service by repairing defective ThinkPad R61/T61/T61p units containing Nvidia discrete graphics built up to mid-2008 in accordance with Lenovo's MIGR-75087 internal support document at no charge, even though they may be beyond the warranty period. I would very much appreciate your help in resolving my issue.


They replied

Quote:
In refference to the e-mail you have sent us, the document you have cited reffers exclusively to the T61 and T61p models, while the machine you have issues with si a ThinkPad R61.

We are sorry to inform you that your machine is out of warranty since the 14th of August 2009, therefore we are not able to repair the machine under warranty at this point.


This seem to suggest they don't consider the replacement program elapsed, but only my laptop unqualified for it. However, r61 is made of the same parts as t61 which means there might be a r61 dedicated document.

Is anyone aware of MIGR-75087 equivalent for R61 series?

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:41 am 
Offline
RBS10000
RBS10000

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:17 am
Posts: 13401
Location: Mt. Cobb, PA USA
There's no point wasting any more energy on this.
Lenovo has stopped repairing those machines under warranty around March 2011, period. No ifs and buts.
You'll have to bite in the sour apple, and buy another motherboard. :?

_________________
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)

Check out The Board Room for:
- LED-mods for the 15" T60/R60/R61
- SATA-mods for any T43/R52 with ATI GPU
- other Services


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:37 am 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
What do you think of baking the board in the oven? Two years back, I restored my old hp laptop with screwed up nvidia chip this way, but the symptoms of failing gpu were quite different.

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:44 am 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 11:17 am
Posts: 447
Location: IN: Indianapolis
If there was a reliable repair for this problem, there would be a "Sticky" note at the top of this forum. Follow RBS's advice...

RealBlackStuff wrote:
There's no point wasting any more energy on this.

_________________
Tuus-built T61: T8100 2.1 GHz, SXGA+, NVS140M, Patriot 4GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800, Samsung 840 120GB; Thinkpad T30: P4M 1.8 GHz, HYNIX 512 MB PC2700S DDR, Hitachi Travelstar 7K100 100GB; SilverStone Raven RVS01; 97 Volvo 850-R, 85 Mitsubishi Starion-ES, Keilwerth SX-90R, Ensoniq TS-12, Kawai EP-608


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 1:17 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
robert213 wrote:
If there was a reliable repair for this problem, there would be a "Sticky" note at the top of this forum. Follow RBS's advice...


The sticky is in the T4x forum. You take your chances, and if you have more time than money, how much worse could you make it? (follow all the warnings and remove everything BTW, that way you can't damage anything besides the motherboard which is already considered "broken")

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=57021


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:26 pm 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
Problem solved, at least for the moment.
I baked the motherboard for 10 minutes at 210 Celsius in the oven and computer works like new. I hope it stays that way for more than just few months.

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Cary, NC
I just checked with CPU-Z. Thank god both my T61's have the nVidia A2 chipset. Awesome. What a relief?
Now, I need to find a solution to the hindge problem where both the screens are swaying 1-1.5 inches when in open position.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:27 pm 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
I wouldn't worry about the swaying hinges. It is just not worth the time and utterly uneconomical to fix.
I no longer notice it at all.

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm 
Offline
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:41 pm
Posts: 1702
Location: Hockessin, Delaware
velani wrote:
I just checked with CPU-Z. Thank god both my T61's have the nVidia A2 chipset. Awesome. What a relief?
Now, I need to find a solution to the hindge problem where both the screens are swaying 1-1.5 inches when in open position.


Don't get to excited here, the A2 is meaningless. The old and new design both carry this revision number. nVidia treated this problem as a "quality control" issue rather then a revision. To avoid labeling all the old chips as bad, they did nothing to change the numbers on the new ones so the only way to know for sure is the production date on the laptop. Prior to 08/08 it's believed the updated design was slowly introduced, so it's just pure luck which you get. The only thing we know for sure is that even lenovo couldn't tell the good from the bad and had to destroy all the boards and replace them with ones build with new chips in July. If your laptop was build in august, it will have the new board with new chip.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Cary, NC
TuuS wrote:
Don't get to excited here, the A2 is meaningless. The old and new design both carry this revision number. nVidia treated this problem as a "quality control" issue rather then a revision. To avoid labeling all the old chips as bad, they did nothing to change the numbers on the new ones so the only way to know for sure is the production date on the laptop. Prior to 08/08 it's believed the updated design was slowly introduced, so it's just pure luck which you get. The only thing we know for sure is that even lenovo couldn't tell the good from the bad and had to destroy all the boards and replace them with ones build with new chips in July. If your laptop was build in august, it will have the new board with new chip.


Well, I bought both of these T61's used from the same seller. The only hope I have is that the board was replaced under the recall or warranty. Both of these have the A2 on the chip as observed by CPU-Z. Both the laptop's were manufactured in 2007, and not 2008. So I am praying that the boards were replaced at some point. Fingers crossed. Not sure what else I can check?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Cary, NC
Lockheed wrote:
I wouldn't worry about the swaying hinges. It is just not worth the time and utterly uneconomical to fix.
I no longer notice it at all.


Really? Maybe I will get used to it. But can you tell me if the fix is replacing the actual hinges is the solution or are the hinge tabs coming loose inside the LCD?

Sorry to threadcrap. Don't mean to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:27 am 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 am
Posts: 132
Location: France (most of the time)
TuuS wrote:
If your laptop was build in august, it will have the new board with new chip.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. My laptop was built in August 2008.

velani wrote:
Really? Maybe I will get used to it. But can you tell me if the fix is replacing the actual hinges is the solution or are the hinge tabs coming loose inside the LCD?

Yeah, it's the hinges. You will spend weeks hunting them online, and they are not cheap, either.
Then then arrive, you install them and realise they have exactly the same wobbliness as your old ones.
This is the most likely scenario.

But come on, it's not like you often operate your wobbly screen laptop while riding a stage coach on dirt roads between Chicago and Black Hills before the annexation to Dakota territory.

And, by the way, my 08/08 Nvidia is A1, so it's a bit more likely yours is the new sort.

_________________
W500 15.4" - C2D P9500, 8GB RAM, Samsung 830 SSD + 750GB Hitachi HDD, Intel+ATI GPU, bright WUXGA, FP-reader
Arch Linux, BTRFS, Serpent-XTS encryption


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Cary, NC
Thanks lockheed and others for your valuable input.
Just before I am writing this reply, the same seller emailed me that there was another T61 to be had. I asked for verification on the nVidia chip to make sure it was A2. Should I buy yet another T61?

Are these great units to have around as backups or cheaper alternative workhorses for regular stuff like emails and general web surfing? I am not looking to stress these with games etc. My question relates to whether T61's are a good, if not great laptops to have around?

Thanks to all for sharing your wealth of experience.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:19 am 
Offline
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Posts: 5612
Location: Israel
Personally, I find the T61 ugly, poorly designed and annoying laptops to have around. :)

_________________
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X61 7673-V2V
Collectibles: X32 w/ IPS Screen, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Cary, NC
dr_st wrote:
Personally, I find the T61 ugly, poorly designed and annoying laptops to have around. :)


Agreed, but I am looking for a workhorse. Looks like T61 was after transition from IBM to Lenovo and some of the parts were quality parts. So I was just hoping and banking on the laptop working a long time for its intended purpose.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:46 pm 
Offline
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Posts: 12454
Location: Albrightsville, Pennsylvania
@velani:

If you're looking for a workhorse, get a T400/500 or a W500. Way too many gray areas when it comes to T61 generation.

I'd *never* rely on a nVidia-based T61 or R61 as my main machine. YMMV.

_________________
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your friendly retired FlexView farmer)

Collecting SSDI: A31p, T42p

Abused daily: T60, T61, R60F, R500F

For sale: T61p (4:3), T420, T601 QXGA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:03 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Cary, NC
ajkula66 wrote:
@velani:

If you're looking for a workhorse, get a T400/500 or a W500. Way too many gray areas when it comes to T61 generation.

I'd *never* rely on a nVidia-based T61 or R61 as my main machine. YMMV.


Understood that T400/500/W500 might be a workhorse and that T61 has questionable nVidia chipset. But my only lure was the price I was getting these T61's at, which is in the $150 or sub-range.

I wonder if I should pass on the 3rd T61? I am to meet the seller in 1.5 hours from now.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group