thinkpads.com Support Community Forum Index Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Open Forum - The Original Thinkpad Support Forum
Follow ThinkpadsForum on Twitter
 Support this forum, shop at newmodeus.com
 Support the forum, shop at newmodeus.com
 The thinkpads support forum is now hosting legacy model ThinkPad driver and driver updates..
A link is provided in the MENUBAR just above for registered forum members only..

If you so wish:
Donate using PayPal

It is currently Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:07 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:47 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Cambridge, MA
I'm interested in purchasing a Lenovo C200 model laptop. I'm also a long-time user of the DVORAK keyboard layout, though not hard-core enough to touch-type.

I'd like to ask if there is a way to safely remove individual key caps from the keyboard, and replace them in a different arrangement.

Brief experimentation at a computer store (under the watchful eye of a salesperson) suggests that the key caps cannot be removed by gently prying upward, as other laptop keyboards allow, but I'm hoping that Lenovo just uses a different mechanism.

_________________
--iSKUNK!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:37 am 
Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Moderator Emeritus

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:29 pm
Posts: 4393
Location: L.A. (home town) CA, Toronto ON.
Keys can be removed by gently prying upwards. As far as putting them in different arrangement is concerned, it is possible as long as the keys from the source to destination are equal in size and proportion, obviously you would need to remap them afterwards too.

_________________
"I've come a long, long way," she said, "and I will go as far,
With the man who takes me from my horse, and leads me to a bar."
The man who took her off her steed, and stood her to a beer,
Were a bleary-eyed Surveyor and a DRUNKEN ENGINEER.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:47 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Cambridge, MA
Are you sure it's not the Thinkpad keyboard you're thinking of? The salesperson made the point that there is a difference in the key cap mounting mechanism between the Thinkpad- and Lenovo-branded laptop keyboards; that the former can be removed by prying up in the usual manner, but the latter worked in some other way that he did not know. That it might even be the case that the Lenovo's key caps cannot be removed at all (which would be a deal-breaker for me, hence my question here).

I did try to pull up a key cap from an N200. It went up about 1/8", and even after rocking it back and forth a bit, it would not budge. If "prying up" were the way, I believe it should have come off, and I feared that pulling it up any further would have damaged the key mechanism....

_________________
--iSKUNK!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:26 am 
Offline
**SENIOR** Member
**SENIOR** Member

Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 821
Location: Ratingen, Germany
FYI according to the HMM the keyboards for the C200 are manufactured by NMB and Chicony who also manufacture TP keyboards. I find it difficult to imagine they would use other manufacturing methods for 3000 series keyboards.
If the keys are difficult to remove; that speaks of quality to me.

_________________
T61p 6460-67G; 15,4 WSXGA+ W7P x64, no hairdryer.
T43p 2668-G2G, 14,1 SXGA+, XP Pro, internal hairdryer
T23 2647-9LG, 14,1 SXGA+, XP Pro, no hairdryer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:47 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Cambridge, MA
Well, the presence/absence of the trackpoint would be one major difference, so reasonably there could be others as well.

I forgot to mention, I'd earlier spoken with Lenovo/IBM's support techs, and they didn't have *any* information on removing key caps. They didn't go so far as to say the caps are permanently attached, but that at best it's something unobvious.

_________________
--iSKUNK!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:40 am 
Offline
Admin
Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:40 am
Posts: 4896
Location: Greenville SC
This isn't the same model, but you might try to contact this user and see if he was able to replace that one key. He at least will know how the keys are put on.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=48954

_________________
Jane
ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad 4, iPhone 4S, IdeaTab A2107A
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter

I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:47 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Cambridge, MA
I had an informative little chat with Matt. This was what he had to say:
Quote:
Keycaps can be removed by simply pulling them off. On most keyboards I've dealt with, there is very little danger of damaging the keycap when doing that. But, I have a reasonably strong impression that the keycaps on the Lenovo 300 laptop are significantly more delicate than most others. The little plastic tabs on the underside of the Lenovo keyscaps that hold the keycap onto its support bracket break really easily. So, if you were intending to replace them sometime, but broke some while removing them, later replacement wouldn't be possible. Also, if the caps you want to use instead of the originals also have delicate attachment tabs. they might break when you try to install them. Have you thought of keeping the original keys, and writing up a set of stickers to put over the original keys - you could write whatever symbols you wanted on those stickers.

The fragility of the key mechanism [when removing a keycap] is enough discouragement for me---this is no IBM Model M keyboard. (The day they build a buckling-spring keyboard into a Thinkpad, I'll be all over that.) The Lenovo line still has a lot to recommend it, however, and perhaps a ready-made set of key-stickers is a reasonable way of "rearranging" the keys. I've had bad experiences with stickers on top of keys (peeling, tackiness, etc.) but hope that these are of a better cut.

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

_________________
--iSKUNK!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:18 pm 
Offline
Admin
Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:40 am
Posts: 4896
Location: Greenville SC
Thanks for coming back and posting what you found out here!

_________________
Jane
ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad 4, iPhone 4S, IdeaTab A2107A
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter

I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:13 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Edmonton, Canada
I've got an N100 myself. I didn't have any trouble removing or replacing keys myself. Unfortunately, when I tried to put them back in a dvorak layout, I found some of the physical mounts for the keys are upside down relative to the others, so there's relatively little useful re-arrangement of keys possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:47 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Cambridge, MA
Atrus, that's good to know. I also just now stumbled across this post, stating the same for a Thinkpad T30.

I was originally worried that some gratuitous design quirk would be a problem, and lo and behold, that manages to be the case after all....

_________________
--iSKUNK!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 15
Location: France
How does one remap the keys in BIOS to avoid OS-dependant problems ? As I am living in France, the most annoying thing on computers is to hit the "A" key and sometimes see a "Q" on screen if the dirty magic remapping command had not been issued, which I have observed on all kinds of systems since the beginning (Amiga, Mac, MS-DOS PC in the 90's). Or maybe I should stick to US keyboards like when I used Sun and SGI workstations.
Are there any tools to disassemble BIOS, edit the scan code tables and write back the correct checksum ?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group