x200 devotee still trying to make it work--open to any ideas...

[mtgal]

Hi All,

I now have Win7 Pro x64 running on my circa 2008 x200 ThinkPad with 8MB RAM and a 500 GB SSD. It's awesome, but I've run into a snag. Some crucial software I need will run with Win7, but its licensing software (Paddle) won't work with anything older than Win10. I can download a trial version of this software and use it with Win7, but as soon as the 30 day trial is up and I try to buy the license, Paddle will not allow activation.

I'm considering three possible options:

1. Upgrade the OS to Win10. I am concerned that it won't work well with the x200 because of the slow processor and that I'll need to go back to Win7, which could get complicated. Aware that I don't know what I don't know, I'm leery of this option and ending up without a machine to work on until I figure out how to get back to where I was with Win7.

2. Buy a slightly newer model of ThinkPad that already has Win10 (or even better Win11, since next year support for Win10 ends) installed. If I went this route, my druthers are 12" screen with a more vertical aspect ratio, a keyboard that is as excellent as the x200, and dockable. Any models come to mind? Any to avoid?

Also--is there a refurbisher or retailer or liquidator of older ThinkPads that can reliably provide me with such a machine? I have been looking at the x220 on eBay, but they are hard to find and private sellers I don't know concern me--it could die a month after I get it. I would like for there to be some accountability. Know of any good sources?

3. Buy a more contemporary machine. It needs to be lightweight, no more than 13" screen, long battery life, have an excellent keyboard (I type a LOT and have arthritis), excellent build quality, and the graphics chip has to be some kind of older style as the new ones are horrible on my eyes and give me a headache, no matter how much I adjust the settings. So maybe something four years old? Anything come to mind? (I can also ask this in another area of the forums if that is more appropriate).

A fourth idea is to somehow evade the Paddle licensing program that doesn't want to authorize a product key on a Win7 machine, even though the software I need does run with Win 7. Any ideas of how this can be done?

Oh and the software I need doesn't work well with Linux, unfortunately.

[RealBlackStuff]

No information anywhere about OS installation requirements for that Paddle.
Strange, to say the least...

If you go for a more recent laptop, you will have to get used to a smaller, 6-row keyboard layout, something to consider.
There are a few modern Thinkpads which have a 3:2 screen, just what you want.
A 13.5" X1 Titanium Yoga, review here
and a smaller 12" X12 Detachable, review here.

You could also post a Wanted/Looking for X220 in our Marketforum.
(Should it have a non-US keyboard, I have a perfect US-ANSI NMB keyboard for the X220, FRU 45N2211 for sale.)

Another option: look at Paddle's competition here or here.
They may be able to run under W7.

You could install Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 edition (version 21H2), which will be supported until 2027-01-12.
By then your laptop will probably be on its last legs.
And there is Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2), which will have support until 2032-01-13.

[ZaZ]

I think the problem with choosing a X220 is you'd be going from a notebook that's 16 years old to one that's 13 years old and won't have updates once Windows 10 is decommissioned, which does not feel like a long term solution. I know the old keyboard is great, but your only other choice for something newer is the ThinkPad 25, which is more scare and prices reflect the scarcity. At some point something's got to give. I personally like the new keyboard, but that's only my opinion and I'm not much of a typist.

If it were my money, I'd opt for the ThinkPad L380, which is likely a little more wallet friendly than other ThinkPad alternatives. It's a little over three pound, but gets you access to the low watt quad cores that means support for Window 11. It can be had with a FHD IPS screen that should be a major upgrade over what the X200 offers.

I'm curious as to what Paddle had to say about your attempts to active it in Windows 7?

If you wanted to be sneaky about it, you could buy some imaging software, say True Image, which older versions should be inexpensive via eBay. Install Windows 7 with everything except Paddle, then make an image and install Paddle. When the 30 days are up you could put the image without Paddle back and re-install it. It'd probably be a good idea to partition your SSD to keep any data on a separate drive.

[mtgal]

Thanks, all... I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not trying to activate Paddle. Paddle will not be downloaded to my machine. I am trying to activate Scrivener (writing software), and Scrivener uses Paddle for Scrivener's license key activation. Scrivener is telling me that Paddle won't activate a license key for Scrivener software that has been downloaded to a Win7 machine. Scrivener works fine with Win7 during the free trial, but it can't be activated with Win7 after the free trial. Because of Paddle's rules, not Scrivener's.

So, if there were a way to fool Paddle into activating the product key for my Scrivener software, I'd be all set.

[mtgal]

RealBlackStuff
Thanks for the useful tips on Win10 versions with more support. Very helpful.

I tried the 13" detachable a while back. Unusable. Hated that the screen kept detaching while I was working. Sent it back.

I will have a look at the Titanium Yoga.

I have a custom build x13 in my shopping cart at Lenovo. Not sure if I will pull the trigger on that.... Chose the AMD processor and graphics chip and Win 11 Pro, because the newer Intel graphics with Win 10 hurt my eyes terribly. I don't know if AMD with Win 11 would be any better.

[mtgal]

ZaZ--is the ThinkPad 25 you refer to the T25 model? I will see if I can find one... Will it run Win11?

I am leaning more and more to Win11 if I get a different machine. In part because Win10 seems to gouge out my eyes. I have tried changing settings. It seems to also depend on how it interacts with particular hardware. There are actually whole online forums devoted to this problem, I discovered. No one has found a solution and what solves the problem for one person doesn't solve it for someone else. I have returned 4 laptops in recent years because I couldn't make the eye/headache problem go away.

But that's an aside I don't intend to try to address here.

[TPFanatic]

About the screen hurting… x200 and older laptops still used incandescent backlit screens, they’re softer. Now everything is LED lit which is harsh and a lot of cheap screens use PWM (rapid flickering) to dim the display. even thinkpads used PWM for a long time, I believe my P71 with its 4K screen uses PWM, and i can corroborate the pain.

The good news is Notebookcheck who reviews laptops checks for PWM so if you read their review on a particular model you will know if it has PWM. There are also new backlight technologies such as MLED and OLED which outperform the old LED tech in brightness and contrast, you might like that instead.

[ZaZ]

The ThinkPad 25 uses the 7th Gen Core i CPUs, but unfortunately, the oldest CPUs officially supported by Windows 11 are the 8th Gen low watt quad core I mentioned earlier.

[TPFanatic]

25th anni is also insanely overpriced for the performance. it's nicer than a regular t470 but not for 10-20x the price. and the screen is underwhelming.

if you want to spend around $5-600 on a computer, i recommend a used newer ThinkPad like T16, T15, T14, P14s, X13, L13, etcetera with the AMD Ryzen chipsets and Radeon graphics, they are insanely fast and the integrated Radeon graphics are almost as fast as the Maxwell/Pascal Nvidia dedicated GPUs of ThinkPads 7-8 years ago - certainly faster than the old and weak Kepler/Fermi Nvidia GPUs of 9+ year old ThinkPads - and using a fraction of the power in much smaller and portable cases. The Ryzen CPUs are even better, makes my P71 look slow... if you do any video and photo production or gaming you will appreciate the power. Win 11 is supported!!

X13 and L13 are the current successors to your wonderful X200.

edit:
$5-600 actually gets you in range of Lenovo's own Outlet prices. Lots of good deals there. https://www.lenovo.com/us/outletus/en/l ... inkStation

Honestly between Intel / AMD either is so many generations newer than X200's old Penryn... any of these laptops will be superior. They've even got an X1 Nano, which is about the size of X200.

[RealBlackStuff]

If you still want to try and activate Scrivener on W7, check if this works: https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/ ... ted/138882

Looking at the Scrivener (L&L) website, you buy that program per OS Version (Windows or Mac only, no Linux).
Meaning you pay for one license for W7, another license for W10, etc.
If you paid for W7 but can't activate it, contact L&L to refund you.
Then wait till you have your next laptop and install their W10 version and try it for 30 days.
If still happy, pay for the activation.

[mikemex]

1. Upgrade the OS to Win10. I am concerned that it won't work well with the x200 because of the slow processor and that I'll need to go back to Win7, which could get complicated. Aware that I don't know what I don't know, I'm leery of this option and ending up without a machine to work on until I figure out how to get back to where I was with Win7.

I'm running Windows 10 on my oldest machine, which is an X301. Everything works well, though due to architecture differences, most of the old (W7) utilities no longer work. For example, in Windows 7 fingerprint recognition works through an application, while on Windows 10 it's handled by Windows's built-in "Hello" system. The fingerprint works and allows me to login into Windows (and probably more things that were not possible on Windows 7) but I've not found a way to enable pre-desktop authentication. I'd like to solve that mystery one day but it's really not a big deal if I don't. Same goes for "Access connections", "Hotkey integration" and the rest. Such features work on Windows 10 but not through the official applications.

At some point I resisted switching from Windows 7 to 10, but I have to admit that Windows 10 isn't that bad. 11, however...

[ZaZ]

I think the 8th gen low watt quad cores still work well as daily drivers. Of course the newer machines are faster, but with more performance comes more cost, so I guess it more about how much you want to spend.

[mtgal]

If you still want to try and activate Scrivener on W7, check if this works: https://forum.literatureandlatte.com/t/ ... ted/138882

Looking at the Scrivener (L&L) website, you buy that program per OS Version (Windows or Mac only, no Linux).
Meaning you pay for one license for W7, another license for W10, etc.
If you paid for W7 but can't activate it, contact L&L to refund you.
Then wait till you have your next laptop and install their W10 version and try it for 30 days.
If still happy, pay for the activation.

RBS~
Super generous of you to seek out answers on the L&L website for me. I am actually using Scrivener 3 (latest edition) on my husband's four year old Win11 machine (I think it's an LG--something he picked up cheep at Costco) on a free trial which ends after six more uses. I've gotten a tremendous amount of work done with it, and have backed up all my files to an external SSD, which I planned to use to migrate everything over to my x200.

During the trial I've been discussing all of this with the L&L forums. I was explicitly told that I could run the Win7 version of Scrivener as a free trial, but that Paddle will not allow me to license it at the end of the 30 uses. One Win7 user suggested the "run as Admin" workaround, so I have downloaded both Scrivener 3 and Scrivener 1 (the Win7 version) to my x200. (I did this because the download instructions say only users who have Scriv3 on their machines may download Scriv1 at this point in time).

Scriv3 simply will not open. The error message is "The procedure entry point CreateDXGFactory2 could not be located in the dynamic link library dxgi.dll"

Scriv1 does open, but when I try to open a .scriv folder from my external SSD it says I must upgrade to the newest version of Scrivener to use these files, because they were created with the newest version of Scrivener. So three weeks-plus of intensive work would have to be re-done in Scriv1. Not the end of the world, but a serious derailment of my project, especially if it turns out that I can't activate Scriv1 either. I haven't even tried starting new files in Scriv1 in the x200, but I suppose I will, just to see if it is functional enough to be worth going to bat to get it licensed.

L&L is under no obligation to refund my money if it won't activate with Win7. Not only have they explicitly told me it most likely will not, they have a disclaimer on their download page saying do not do the free trial with Win7 and then expect to be able to license it.

I feel like I'm falling further and further down the rabbit hole.

Seeing as my job is writing a book and not fiddling around with computers, I don't want to take big risks with my work. Even if I can get everything up and running in Win7, I feel I am taking a big risk putting my work into a program that isn't supported. Word does not read Scrivener files. It's an organizational tool, not a word processor, so it is structured in ways that cannot be replicated in Word. So if I create the book in Scrivener, and it quits working, and I'm in Win7, I cannot expect to get help from L&L.

(takes breath)

***Of all the Win11 compatible ThinkPads out there, which one has a keyboard and form factor that will come closest to satisfying an x200 devotee?***

Because I think at this point that is the best next step with the least aggravation. I do need something for travel. My husband is willing to give me his LG and buy himself something new, but it is huge--15" or 16" screen, so it won't work in the long run.

[mtgal]

X13 and L13 are the current successors to your wonderful X200.

edit:
$5-600 actually gets you in range of Lenovo's own Outlet prices. Lots of good deals there. https://www.lenovo.com/us/outletus/en/l ... inkStation

Honestly between Intel / AMD either is so many generations newer than X200's old Penryn... any of these laptops will be superior. They've even got an X1 Nano, which is about the size of X200.

TPF, Thank you.

Do you have any experience with the X13, L13, or the X1 Nano? If so, what did you like/dislike about them?

The T-series has been most often recommended to me. I am just concerned that they are too large and heavy for travel. I have a bad back and I don't check my bag when I fly. Also getting on and off trains with heavy luggage does me in. Do you think the T-series is light enough? I thought they start at 3#.

[mtgal]

I'm running Windows 10 on my oldest machine, which is an X301. Everything works well, though due to architecture differences, most of the old (W7) utilities no longer work.
At some point I resisted switching from Windows 7 to 10, but I have to admit that Windows 10 isn't that bad. 11, however...

I believe the x200 processor, which is an old dual core, is the problem. And it can't be upgraded except by putting in a new motherboard. Which would wipe out everything and I'd have to start over. And then still couldn't upgrade to Win 11.

I think I'm going to have to go to Win 11 within the next few years, so may as well fall on that sword now. I hate changing systems, and don't want to have to do it again for another ten years at least.

[ZaZ]

LG Grams notebooks are essentially ultrabooks. They're physically larger, I don't know if that makes a difference, but thinner and weigh less than your X200. I'd want to test out the keyboard before coming to an agreement.

[TPFanatic]

I haven’t personally used or handled an x13 or l13 or nano unfortunately. I got to try a t14 at Costco, it’s a fine thinkpad as any other. The X200 has the distinction of being an incredibly compact laptop the width and height of which has largely gone unbeaten, only the Nano gets closest in physical dimensions while being a lot thinner too.

They’re all very lightweight by now. But If you like tiny laptops, the Nano is for you.

The smallest laptop i ever used newer than x200 is an old early Yoga, very thin laptop because it doubles as a handheld tablet, but also too old and outdated to seriously recommend. The outlet laptops are so inexpensively economical compared to what the secondhand market is serving, and the computers have gotten so much faster and more powerful and more energy efficient, it’s just bad advice to suggest anything other unless you’re on a really tight budget where an old machine makes sense.

Between x13 and l13 I expect the x13 to be a higher quality product, same goes for the x1 Nano. L13 is the value model, probably uses cheaper materials, might not hold up as long as X200 has.

[mikemex]

They've even got an X1 Nano, which is about the size of X200.

No way. The X200 is a brick compared to the Nano. The Nano is a miniature X1 Carbon, which is talking big words...

Which would wipe out everything and I'd have to start over. And then still couldn't upgrade to Win 11. I hate changing systems, and don't want to have to do it again for another ten years at least.

Windows 10 is much easier to setup than previous versions. It's one of the reasons I decided to switch from 7.

I think I'm going to have to go to Win 11 within the next few years, so may as well fall on that sword now.

Listen to me: stretch the budget to $800 and you'll get a truly DREAM machine:

https://www.lenovo.com/us/outletus/en/p ... 20xyx072us

[RealBlackStuff]

Whichever machine you may go for, check if there is a review for it on https://www.notebookcheck.net/
It will give you tons of very useful information.
When there, always check (Edit/Find in Page) for the word PWM (screen flickering), you'll want a machine without PWM.
Best of Irish in finding your X200 follow-upper.

[mtgal]

Whichever machine you may go for, check if there is a review for it on https://www.notebookcheck.net/
It will give you tons of very useful information.
When there, always check (Edit/Find in Page) for the word PWM (screen flickering), you'll want a machine without PWM.
Best of Irish in finding your X200 follow-upper.

THANK YOU! That is so, so helpful!

[mtgal]

Update: I just pulled the trigger on a new, custom configured x13 gen 4 with AMD processor for just a smidge over $1k.

I was heartened to see on the Lenovo website scores of reviews of this machine from people who until just recently were still using their old x2-- and are very happy with their new purchase.

I hope I got enough RAM, since now it is soldered. I got 16 gigs. Should be plenty for what I do, but I would like to be using the next machine for at least ten years. Should I call them tomorrow and ask them to change it to 32 gigs?

I went with the AMD processor because at Costco I discovered that the AMDs don't gouge out my eyes like the Intel Evos do.

Got a 1T SSD, which is more than I need, and plus that is upgradable. I also upgraded the battery since I saw in some reviews that the battery life on these can be not great.

And I got a touch screen, which I'm looking forward to. I am online mostly on my Samsung tablet and it gets confusing to not be able to touch the screen when I go to work.

Should arrive on my birthday. And I have 45 days to try it out and decide if it's for me. Free return shipping if it's a no-go. They even threw in free expedited shipping and a free service contract upgrade. Great sale going on now until Thursday, FYI.

Thanks to everyone here for all your support and advice.

[mikemex]

I went with the AMD processor because at Costco I discovered that the AMDs don't gouge out my eyes like the Intel Evos do.

I don't think it has anything to do with the processor. But I could be wrong...

I hope I got enough RAM, since now it is soldered. I got 16 gigs. Should be plenty for what I do, but I would like to be using the next machine for at least ten years. Should I call them tomorrow and ask them to change it to 32 gigs?

Got a 1T SSD, which is more than I need, and plus that is upgradable. I also upgraded the battery since I saw in some reviews that the battery life on these can be not great.

BY ALL MEANS DO THAT IF YOU STILL CAN! I didn't mention it because I thought it was common sense around here: Lenovo really overcharges you for storage. Most of us avoid that "Lenovo tax" and upgrade ourselves. For reference, I got 6 new 1TB SSDs recently to upgrade my stuff and I paid $40 for each. And I'm keeping the old SSDs, on top of that!

But you can't get more RAM unless you swap the entire motherboard! I went to check Lenovo's web site and it costs about the same to get your configuration with 32GB of RAM and 256GB, compared to 16GB and 1TB.

It's a no-brainer.