Purchasing a backup w510

[D L Davis]

I'm thinking of purchasing a (preferably new) w510 as a back up to the one I use for my business. I'm considering this because I figure I would be more successful in cloning an exact copy of my current hard drive and getting it to work in an identical model in the event of the current machine failing...as I wouldn't have to worry about drivers and configuration issues. I'm assuming any other Lenovo system would be a big headache to get running on a cloned HD from another model. What are the issues in such an endeavor?

[RealBlackStuff]

Alternatively get an exact same spare motherboard. Which one have you got?

What is your current config? CPU, RAM, HD/SSD etc.
You need to give at least the MTM and/or PRODUCT-ID (7-char. model from label on bottom).
T510 and T520 could be other options if you only need 16GB RAM, W520 for 32GB.
At worst they would need an update of a few Windoze drivers.
If you run Linux, you should have no problems at all.

[D L Davis]

Alternatively get an exact same spare motherboard. Which one have you got?

What is your current config? CPU, RAM, HD/SSD etc.
You need to give at least the MTM and/or PRODUCT-ID (7-char. model from label on bottom).
T510 and T520 could be other options if you only need 16GB RAM, W520 for 32GB.
At worst they would need an update of a few Windoze drivers.
If you run Linux, you should have no problems at all.

Right now...I'm just thinking hypothetically. Assuming the model numbers and specs matched up, would that be a wise strategy? I'm running win7 pro..and want to stick with that. If I bought another model...and cloned the HD in my current w510...how big of a headache would it be to get the system to run on the cloned HD, which runs win7pro?

[brchan]

Right now...I'm just thinking hypothetically. Assuming the model numbers and specs matched up, would that be a wise strategy? I'm running win7 pro..and want to stick with that. If I bought another model...and cloned the HD in my current w510...how big of a headache would it be to get the system to run on the cloned HD, which runs win7pro?

It may or may not work properly with T/W520. I tried swapping w7 HDDs from a T61p and intel T61 and it would get slow and occasionaly BSOD. Might have been primarily caused by the different GPUs, though. But as said previously, you won't have any problem with linux. I've swapped drives from my W530 and T61 multiple times without any issues.

If your OS install is really old, you will probably get a nice speed boost anyway if you do a clean install and move your files over.

[bit_twiddler]

If you're really interested in a backup machine, I'd recommend buying a W520
and setting it up with whatever OS you want, rather than banking on being
able to restore W7 in an emergency situation to a different motherboard.

The W520 is a much better machine, and they are fairly inexpensive nowadays.

[D L Davis]

If you're really interested in a backup machine, I'd recommend buying a W520
and setting it up with whatever OS you want, rather than banking on being
able to restore W7 in an emergency situation to a different motherboard.

The W520 is a much better machine, and they are fairly inexpensive nowadays.

=========================================
What does a 520 have that a 510 doesn't?

The reason I want to go the cloned backup system route is that I have many proprietary programs set up just so. It would likely take me months to get the thing even close to the highly integrated system it is now...and, along the way, I'd have to negotiate with multiple companies to reestablish the installation and legal rights to each....assuming I can even find the original serial numbers and invoices I used to buy the stuff 4 years or more ago. As it stands now, I've gotten it to automate my business through elaborate, interdependent macros. I'd likely have to shut down until I got it all figured out again. It's not just win7 I want to restore...it's about 20 programs (each with its own registration and version) on top of that.

[ajkula66]

What does a 520 have that a 510 doesn't?

A cooler-running and *way* more powerful CPU.

The ability to possibly handle twice the amount of RAM - depending on the specs of your current W510 which we know nothing of...

Better graphics options.

As for your software concerns...yes, the issues might arise if you were to slap your current HDD into a T/W520. Not knowing which specific programs you're using there's really no way of knowing how many of them would "bark" at *520 requiring re-registration. Many of them might - or might not - behave in the same manner when faced with a different W510 board.

[bit_twiddler]

Here is another $.02..

Actually, the W510 is a very capable machine, and both the W510 and W520 will take 32GB.
The W520 is in every other way far superior; depending upon what CPU you select,
you'll typically wind up with about 2x performance over the W510. Sandy Bridge
was a big step up in performance, and since then only incremental improvements
have been made for non-graphics related stuff.

Battery life is also superior, because the W520 has an integrated GPU as well
as an NVIDIA GPU, whereas a W510 quad core has no integrated GPU.

All this being said, the W510 is still a great machine, if you have one in
good condition and do not need the absolute best performance.

The point that I was trying to make, though, is that if you have a business
use for a machine, and you need to assure yourself that you have a recovery
system in place, nothing beats having a 2nd system already up and running.

One option might be to run a virtualized copy of Windows (or whatever you
need) under VirtualBox, VMWare, or some other good virtualization solution.
If you can do this, then you will have many more options as far as backup and
recovery. And, preparing for the worst case ahead of time is always better than
having to figure out what to do when you have a catastrophe on your hands.

[D L Davis]

Thanks for the insights. Actually, for what I do, the w510 is plenty fast enough. I recall when I upgraded from the IBM x41...I was so relieved to see how much faster a graphics-heavy job (like printing a scanned document) was completed. There were times I'd have to send the job from my x41 to my HP 2024 and go to lunch. With the w510...the same document would print in about 3 seconds. I also use a document assembly program. With that software, the x41 would pause for a few seconds before drawing the next screen. That drove me nuts. I also use wordperfect, a database program, and several other software products concurrently.

When all factors are considered, I guess I'd better get another w510 with specs as close possible to the machine I have now, then clone the drive, and make the backup machine ready for the sad day when something goes wrong with my current machine. Each day the system is down, I'd lose considerable $$, and there'd be a good chance I'd be down for a week or two. Using a tech support person isn't an option, as I deal with confidential records. There's no way I could turn over my machine to a technician. I'd have to fix it myself. I think I can clone a drive and put it in an identical machine w/o too much difficulty. If it takes disassembling the laptop, I'm in trouble. I can build & repair desktop units, but laptops are another matter. Cloning the drive would spare me reinstalling the 10 or so programs I use daily...and reregistering each. Via that scenario, I would expect each company to think I was trying to steal their software. My office has been flooded twice. Each time, I had to remove records, store them, and put them back. there's no telling where all the ownership records are. I'm not a software thief. All my programs were legitimately purchased and registered. I'm just not all that great at organizing things I may need to find later.

I do worry about buying a used machine that turns out to be defective. That has happened to me in the past. My current machine (the w510) has only one USB port that works...the eSATA. I'd hate to get another machine that had similar or worse problems. If I were to buy another w510 (via ebay or whatever) how would I be able to control for that? I suppose, given my approach, I wouldn't have to have one with a HD in it, though I wonder if I cloned a HD that was not EXACTLY the same type and size of the drive in my current w510, if all the software would run on the backup w510. I suppose there's no way to know until I try it. I just wonder...if the seller has my money, and I receive the used laptop that doesn't work, what then? I can't very well tell the UPS guy to hang on while I test the system.

As to a virtualized machine, I would assume I'd have to install each program I use..complete with registration and all that...to the virtualized machine. The software companies would likely either charge me an arm and a leg for the second registration, or require me to buy another copy of their software...and that's assuming they wouldn't think I was trying to rip them off.

[brchan]

I do worry about buying a used machine that turns out to be defective. That has happened to me in the past. My current machine (the w510) has only one USB port that works...the eSATA. I'd hate to get another machine that had similar or worse problems. If I were to buy another w510 (via ebay or whatever) how would I be able to control for that?

If you buy from eBay, here are some good tips:

1. Buy only from high rated sellers, like those with 99% and above. 100% rating is not uncommon.
2. Make sure there are CLEAR photos of the machine all around
3. There is a full description of the laptop and specs
4. If you are unsure about a unit, ask the seller.
5. Avoid laptops that have been in corporate environments, as they are more likely to be abused.

Follow these tips and you will get a good machine. You can also buy from long term forum members here on the marketplace, which is even safer.

I do worry about buying a used machine that turns out to be defective. That has happened to me in the past. My current machine (the w510) has only one USB port that works...the eSATA

Sounds like the previous owner went too hard on the ports. The laptops that were prone to usb failure were the T400/T500/W500, so you shouldn't worry about.

[bit_twiddler]

I can second what brchan has said, with the additional advice that you
only consider sellers with a 30 day or longer return policy.

I, too, have a W510 with flaky usb ports (mechanically in my case),
but everything works perfectly on my W520. It could easily have
been the reverse, I don't think that the machine type had anything
to do with it.

In the case of the W520, I asked the seller ahead of time how clean
the unit was, and told him exactly what I was looking for, i.e., that
I needed everything to work properly, (including the ultrabay, docking
port, etc.) and that I would need time to check everything out.

I'd also avoid any machine that doesn't look very clean (i.e., no
marks or scratches on screen, chipped corners, no shiny keys, no loose
hinges).

If you are buying from a non-corporate user and they are knowledgeable
about the machine, ask them how hot it runs. W510s tend to run
hot. In fact, if you are set on that type of machine, you might want
to see if someone on this forum will change the thermal paste and
thermal pads for you for a fee. There are chips on the motherboard
(besides the CPU and GPU) that connect to the heat sink, and the
factory thermal pads, in particular, are prone to deteriorate.

The thermal paste that Lenovo used is not particularly advanced, and
prone to dry out. I'd recommend that you get someone to change
the thermal paste as well to MX-2 or some other good paste.

If you are running a specific version of Windows (7, 8, etc.), make sure that
the machine that you are getting is running that version. Microsoft
has this notion of "entitlement" in that if a machine has had some version
of Windows installed on it in the past, or been registered in some way,
you can more easily recover. It might make it easier to swap drives
like you are proposing to do in an emergency. However, I actually rarely
run Windows these days, so someone who knows more about this might
be able to advise you better.

Another thing that you might investigate are the licenses of the other
software that you are running. Are they tied to the CPU, or are they
"floating" licenses, which allow you to run a specified number of instances
simultaneously? If the latter, then you might be able to test your
backup as long as it is the only machine that you have running their
software.

In any case, you might try talking with whoever wrote what you are running
and explain what it is that you are trying to do in order to see if they
can help you test your backup.

[bit_twiddler]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that whoever works on your machine should
fix a potential problem with the left speaker, in that the wire is poorly routed
and the insulation can melt, resulting in a loss of sound.

This is a problem common to W510s and W520s, and is easy to fix
as long as you have the palmrest off (which you have to do to
change the heat sink grease and thermal pads.)

Here's a video explaining the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS5EBNhOgCc

On mine, I installed new speakers (which are something like $5 on ebay)
and insulated the speaker wires with 3M Super 88 high temperature
electrical tape, which I was able to get at my local Ace hardware store.

I just put several thicknesses of the tape on top of my heat sink, and then
routed the speaker wire on top of that, and then put another layer of
tape on top to keep the speaker wires in position.

Once you get all this done, your W510 (or W520) should be a solid machine.
There is probably some other stuff you should have done, like replacing
the CMOS battery, although this is generally not a problem unless the
machine has not been connected to a battery and a power outlet for a long
period of time.

It's also worth looking through the latest Lenovo BIOSes for the machine to
see if there is anything that warrants updating it.

[D L Davis]

Sounds like the previous owner went too hard on the ports. The laptops that were prone to usb failure were the T400/T500/W500, so you shouldn't worry about.[/quote]

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Actually, I'm the only user. I bought it new. The usb's went bad when I pulled too hard on a cable plugged into the back USB port, and the tongue came out with it. That killed, or at least screwed up, both other USB's. A time or two, I was able to get a mouse to wake up off of one of the left side usb's, but not since. I pried the little leaf spring up a bit to make the connection a little more secure, but that didn't help either. When the eSATA port goes out...I'll have no more usb's

If cloning the drive makes one of my programs puke, that'll be all she wrote. Setting it all up the intricate way I have it such that everything is automated will take a lot of time..maybe weeks...as macros call to files on multiple directories all over the drive. I'd have to rewrite all that, and hope I got all the names correct. Back in the old dos days, I was able to clone drives and get them to work ok. With all this registration crap that requires unique cpu id's, I doubt that will be possible. The system works great right now...and saves me a lot of time every day. I'm just trying to prepare for a day when it goes south.

[D L Davis]

Only consider sellers with a 30 day or longer return policy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

If the seller has my money, what assurance do I have that the 30 day return policy would be honored? Also, how can I be sure the seller is telling the truth that the machine in question was not used in a corporate environment?

I would guess that ebay (or similar outfits) cover the buyer on this stuff. The more I think about it, the more I am of the opinion that I should get a local friend of mine (a 58year old computer geek who used to build systems for me) who does ebay business to act as an agent for me...as I haven't a clue how all this works.

[brchan]

Also, how can I be sure the seller is telling the truth that the machine in question was not used in a corporate environment?

Corporate machines will have stickers on them, usually with barcodes or numbers. If they were removed, there is still a good chance they left outlines or leftover residue. Note: do not confuse them with the S/N MTM sticker on the bottom of the laptop http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/~/media ... ashx?la=en

[ajkula66]

Not for nothing, but how much can a W510 go for today? $250 or less, most likely? If a machine is to perform a "mission critical" function and die in six months, that would still be money well-spent IMO.

Just post a WTB (want to buy) ad in the forum's Marketplace and someone will come to the rescue. FTR, I don't have one to sell you.

[RealBlackStuff]

Alternatively get an exact same spare motherboard. Which one have you got?
What is your current config? CPU, RAM, HD/SSD etc.
You need to give at least the MTM and/or PRODUCT-ID (7-char. model from label on bottom).

Why haven't you given us ANY of the above information?
It would make it so much easier for all of us to give you even more detailed advice.
And the names of all your "critical/registered" programs wouldn't go amiss either!

[bit_twiddler]

If the seller has my money, what assurance do I have that the 30 day return policy would be honored? Also, how can I be sure the seller is telling the truth that the machine in question was not used in a corporate environment?

Ebay has an elaborate rating system which is the reason why
it is the leading auction site. Sellers will generally do anything
to retain their rating. If you click on the feedback score of
the seller, (a little number with 1 or more stars next to it
in the "seller information" panel) you get an overview of
feedback on the seller. I'd look for a seller who has been
on ebay for a while.

In any case, whatever machine you buy will just be a starting point.
The things that you can check out when you get the machine
are stuff that can't be repaired without new major parts.
That means that all ports must work and be mechanically sound,
the screen has to be in good condition, etc.

Perhaps your computer geek friend or someone on this forum
can recommend someone who can take a W510 apart and refurbish it?
You can buy refurbished machines from a lot of people,
such as Walmart and Overstock, but I doubt that they really do much;
the only refurbs that I've ever gotten that were any good were manufacturer
refurbished machines that came with warranties.

You also have to figure out a total budget for the machine. If you wind up spending
$250 for a machine and another $250 to have it refurbished properly,
is that acceptable to you?

Personally, considering the state of the hardware that you have, I'd look at
acquiring a new machine and refurbishing it, and transfer everything to it.
I would not feel good relying on something that is down to 1 usb port.
Then you can have the motherboard swap done on your old one.

You also might consider acquiring a Lenovo mini-dock plus series 3 for your machine,
which will give you more usb ports and esata, (but not esata-p), assuming
that your docking port works. The only limitation is that a mini-dock
will only provide usb 2.0, not 3.0 for your machine, although it sounds
like your usb 3.0 ports are toast now, anyway.

[D L Davis]

Alternatively get an exact same spare motherboard. Which one have you got?
What is your current config? CPU, RAM, HD/SSD etc.
You need to give at least the MTM and/or PRODUCT-ID (7-char. model from label on bottom).

Why haven't you given us ANY of the above information?
It would make it so much easier for all of us to give you even more detailed advice.
And the names of all your "critical/registered" programs wouldn't go amiss either!

========================================
product id: 4318-CTO

[rkawakami]

Useless information (CTO = configure to order) since there's no automatic way to look up what was provided with the system when it left the factory. If there's another 4318-xxx model type printed on the label, that would help. Otherwise, you'll have to do some poking around in the OS/BIOS/motherboard to describe what you have.

In looking back at your previous postings, it seems to me that the only way you will know how the cloned system will act, with respect to your application licenses, is to ask each program vendor how they tie their program to the hardware. My understanding from the few times this was a problem for me or the IT department at the companies I've worked for (and no, I'm not in IT), is that a program can use several sources of "identifying" hardware. CPU ID or version, ethernet IP or MAC address, UUID from BIOS, even combining information from several independent pieces of hardware in the system to form an "environment" ID. If it were me, I'd buy another W510 with the same type of motherboard (look to find the FRU on a label, typically near the memory bay), clone the existing drive onto one of an identical type (manufacturer and size), load it up with the identical amount of memory (size and number of modules; use the ones from the existing system if need be), and see what works (or doesn't). If only a couple of programs refuse to work on the cloned system, contact those vendors and ask what the procedure is for migrating their program onto new hardware. I'm sure that they are aware of the possibility of broken hardware and people's needs to change systems. License information for each program should be available from within each program, typically located in the Help menu but if it's not there, ask the vendor's Product Support team for assistance. If you purchased software from reputable companies and had to go through some sort of licensing procedure to install and run the program(s), I'm sure that they will have all of the information needed to re-license your cloned installation.

[bit_twiddler]

You might start by downloading a program that will list everything on your system, since you have a CTO.
Belarc Advisor is a good one, at least it will tell you what have in the way of CPU and GPU, and
may pick up the licenses on your machine.

[D L Davis]

You might start by downloading a program that will list everything on your system, since you have a CTO.
Belarc Advisor is a good one, at least it will tell you what have in the way of CPU and GPU, and
may pick up the licenses on your machine.

=========================================
Seems I recall in the old DOS days there was a command you could issue via the command line that would dump all that information. Can't recall the command...do you?

[rkawakami]

I don't believe that there ever was a single built-in DOS command that would provide all of that information. The closest that I know of is systeminfo. While it does provide general CPU data (32-bit or 64-bit; stepping info), memory capacity and networking data, it does not list any graphics information. You will do better to download a utility like Belarc Advisor or the like.

[TPFanatic]

Do you not have access to the Serial Number on the sticker with the Type #? Maybe it's scratched off. If you have the Serial Number, you can put it in the Lenovo Parts Lookup: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/partslookup

[D L Davis]

Do you not have access to the Serial Number on the sticker with the Type #? Maybe it's scratched off. If you have the Serial Number, you can put it in the Lenovo Parts Lookup: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/partslookup

======================================================
I had a friend who used to repair and build my computers to act as an agent for me. He found a machine with the exact same specs i emailed 2him. We've ordered it, and plan to clone the hd. HOpefully, all this works. To rebuild the highly integrated system I have now would likely take me a year of spare time.

[jaspen-meyer]

To rebuild the highly integrated system I have now would likely take me a year of spare time.

I write computer scripts for a living.

What I hear you saying is, "My entire business relies on an automated process I've kludged together and which'll stop working the moment my W510 takes a bad fall. The only chance I have (of staying in business if the cookie monster of the computer world comes) is cloning the system -- otherwise I'm going under."

Relying on automation which can't be duplicated or transfered is a tragic flaw. Once you've got a backup system up and running, ready to go at the drop of a, need I say W510 -- look into having the automation written into a proper, simple, scripting language.

That you're stringing together 20 proprietary programs makes me wonder what the process would look like when solved by a script-saavy programmer. My gut reaction is the process would be much simpler, would use far fewer proprietary programs, and would be least complicated if run in Linux.

My $0.02.