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W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

W500/W510/W520 and W700/W701 Series
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udvranto
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W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#1 Post by udvranto » Sat May 07, 2011 11:23 pm

I am about to order my W520 4270 with an Intel 160GB SSD. Now the question is, should I order the 500GB HDD instead? I can replace the DVD rom with the HDD and buy another SSD (Sata III, 6GB/S?) in it's place. Which one is the smarter choice?

Q-Ball
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#2 Post by Q-Ball » Sun May 08, 2011 1:58 am

If you're going SSD, get the smallest HDD you can without paying anything extra in configuration and buy one from a different site. Lenovo charges very large markups (100% for some products) for their products. Also that X25 is very lagging as far as modern standards go. Plus, you get a 'free' hard drive out of the deal. :thumbs-UP:

What are you looking for, though? Do you need the absolute fastest SSD out there or is capacity more important?

If it's speed you're looking for, I'd recommend a SATA III SSD: the Vertex 3 or the Intel 510 are your best options. The 510 is slower but it's more reliable than the Vertex 3. Also be advised that people have had problems getting the Vertex 3 to fit- it seems to be a bit proud of the 9.5mm constraint.

If it's capacity you're looking for, I'd recommend the Intel 320 or a non-OCZ first-generation SandForce drive.
Again- the Intel 320 is a bit more reliable than the competition but it does get beaten on in terms of speed- it can't keep up with even first-generation SandForce drives.
Beware: OCZ's drives are cheaper but they're also slower, and die more frequently than other SandForce drives.

Remember though that SSDs are, in general, more reliable than the hard drives they replace. But you still need to keep backups since SSD's don't make strange noises when they're dying but they do other things (i.e. not booting properly, failing at resume from standby, etc.).


Or you can just get an Intel 310 SSD (it's the mSATA one- $190 for 80 GB, $100 for 40 GB) and slot it in if you don't want to replace the hard drive and "lose" that capacity.


As far as getting Windows back on the computer, you just create recovery disks from the shipped configuration, take that drive out, slot the mSATA card in, and run the recovery, then just wipe the old drive.
Another way to do this is get a Windows 7 install disk and do a clean install (it's what I'd do).

But still- the DIY option is always the cheapest and fastest option for anything you can install yourself.

By the way- how much RAM are you buying from Lenovo? Are you just getting the base 2GB of RAM and installing another 20 buck stick later? It's a good idea to get as little of that stock as you can too, by the way. 80 bucks will buy you 2 x 4 GB sticks.
W520 (i7-2720M, Quadro 1000M), T41, 600E

ZaZ
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#3 Post by ZaZ » Sun May 08, 2011 5:41 am

Q-Ball wrote:Or you can just get an Intel 310 SSD (it's the mSATA one- $190 for 80 GB, $100 for 40 GB) and slot it in if you don't want to replace the hard drive and "lose" that capacity.
Just pointing out this option means no WWAN if that's an issue. I got the msata drive as it means my X220i can have two drive instead of one, but you could potentially do three on the W520 with the msata drive, the regular drive and using the modular caddy.
ThinkPad L14 - 2.1GHz Ryzen 4650U | 16GB | 256GB | 14" FHD | Win11P
ProBook 470 G5 - 1.6GHz Core i5 | 16GB | 2.2TB | 17" FHD | Mint

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#4 Post by udvranto » Sun May 08, 2011 8:54 am

I am looking for the performance. The mSATA option looks perfect! I don't mind loosing the WWAN for it (thanks FredGarvin).

I configured it for 16GB ram. But after reading your reply I feel like a stupid. :P I will reduce the amount of ram and buy it from a different manufacturer.

Thank you very much Q-Ball!

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#5 Post by udvranto » Sun May 08, 2011 9:06 am

Thanks Q-Ball! You just saved me $360! :D

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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#6 Post by udvranto » Sun May 08, 2011 9:18 am


davidhbrown
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#7 Post by davidhbrown » Sun May 08, 2011 7:11 pm

I bought the pair of DIMMs to which you link. Haven't had any problems with memory. Ran the Windows Memory test yesterday, in fact. (Was having some BSODs which finally revealed themselves to be DXGMM1.sys, part of DirectX which I reinstalled.)


I've been pretty happy with the mSATA (3rd-party purchase) plus a 500GB 7200RPM drive (WDC WD5000BEKT -- also 3rd-party) for data.

Note that Intel's mSATA/mini-PCI SSD is pretty slow on writes, about 70MB/s... a little bit slower than that hard drive, actually (around 90MB/s). (The 40GB version is spec'd at half the write speed, by the way.) It's real advantage is its 200MB/s reads. I have most of my main work folders on the HDD, with wWndows and frequently used programs on the SSD.

Haven't figured out how to do the UEFI/GPT boot thing to shave a few more seconds, but startup is plenty fast (about a minute, including Apache and MySQL servers, ESET Nod32 AV, POPFile, Genie Timeline Pro continuous backup, and a few other things). SuperFetch can pre-cache the rest of my 12GB of RAM in just a minute or two while I futz around reading web sites or whatever. Launching most apps is down to just a couple of seconds.

Right now, it looks like a 500+ GB SATA III SSD is around US$1k. That's actually less per GB than the mSATA, but $200 was a lot easier to justify. Maybe next year and let the 80GB be a dual-boot for Ubuntu or some such.
W520 (2820QM, Q2000M, FHD, mSATA SSD, dock)
Previous: T61p (died 1m past warranty :-(), Dell 8600, iBook ("Dual USB"), Gateway Millennium, Macintosh G4 , PowerPC Mac clone, Mac Duo 210, iBook (clamshell), Quadra 630, Mac IIsi, C-128, C-64, Vic-20

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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#8 Post by ThinkRob » Sun May 08, 2011 7:39 pm

davidhbrown wrote: Note that Intel's mSATA/mini-PCI SSD is pretty slow on writes, about 70MB/s... a little bit slower than that hard drive, actually (around 90MB/s). (The 40GB version is spec'd at half the write speed, by the way.) It's real advantage is its 200MB/s reads. I have most of my main work folders on the HDD, with wWndows and frequently used programs on the SSD.
The speeds listed above are sequential speeds, and are thus relatively unimportant. SSDs shine when it comes to small random read/writes -- and the 310 will blow any spinning disk out of the water when it comes to random reads and writes. Speedy random I/O is the real advantage of SSDs.
Need help with Linux or FreeBSD? PM or catch me on IRC: I'm ThinkRob on FreeNode and EFnet.
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#9 Post by KongMD » Mon May 09, 2011 11:04 am

Hi, all. I just ordered a W520 as well, and have been researching SSD options for the past week or so.

The Vertex 3 that many users have been talking about has a newer version, the Vertex 3 Max IOPS, with slightly different hardware and performance close to that of the 240GB Vertex 3. Here is a benchmark from one of the Amazon product reviews:
VERTEX 3 120GB VANILLA
Seq Read 491MB/write 157MB
4K Read 17.4MB/write 41,6MB
4K-64thrd Read 121MB/Write 149MB
acc,Time read 0.116ms/write 0.290ms
Overall score 480

VERTEX 3 120GB MAX IOPS
Seq Read 521MB/write 245MB
4K Read 21MB/write 109MB
4K-64thrd Read 195MB/Write 193MB
acc,Time read 0.160ms/write 0.221ms
Overall Score 727
I bought the Vertex 3 120GB Max IOPS on Newegg this morning for $279 using a Promo Code listed on the product page (ends May 10th). This temporarily makes it cheaper than the vanilla Vertex 3.

NOTE - The drive has a 3-year manufacturer's warranty. If you buy it from Newegg, it is replacement-only (non-refundable). I decided to take this risk, because if the drive didn't fit in my laptop or was somehow incompatible (unlikely), I could always put it in my desktop. I also bought it with a credit card that has Extended Warranty protection, which doubles a product's manufacturer warranty.

If you buy any of the Vertex 3 models, make sure to put the Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver on a USB key and have it plugged in when you install Windows 7 on your new solid state drive (Source thread).


Question: What should I do to test out my new SSD when it arrives to make sure it's functioning correctly (before my laptop gets here)? I have a Latitude D630 that I could use a chassis to test it in.

These might be worth a read:

How To Improve SSD performance

Real world Windows 7 SSD tweaks and optimization

Running two Vertex 3 120GB Max IOPS drives in RAID
ThinkPad W520
Core i7 2720QM | 120GB Vertex 3 Max IOPS | (2x2GB) 1333MHz DDR3 RAM | 1600x900 Display | Quadro 1000M | Win 7 Pro | ThinkPad b/g/n | 3 Yr Depot Warranty
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 1: Preparation
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 2: Hard Drive Swapping and Windows 7 Installation

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#10 Post by udvranto » Tue May 10, 2011 12:53 am

Considering the quick express bay swap, I amnow leaning towards a vertex 3. Thanks for all the input!

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#11 Post by udvranto » Tue May 10, 2011 1:00 am

Dr Kong let me know if you were able to fit the vertex 3.

KongMD
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#12 Post by KongMD » Wed May 11, 2011 8:07 am

My Vertex 3 Max IOPS came yesterday, and my laptop will be here Friday afternoon. I'll let you know this weekend if the drive fits and everything goes smoothly (or otherwise).
ThinkPad W520
Core i7 2720QM | 120GB Vertex 3 Max IOPS | (2x2GB) 1333MHz DDR3 RAM | 1600x900 Display | Quadro 1000M | Win 7 Pro | ThinkPad b/g/n | 3 Yr Depot Warranty
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 1: Preparation
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 2: Hard Drive Swapping and Windows 7 Installation

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#13 Post by udvranto » Sun May 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Amazon is selling it for $290. So is newegg. But newegg has replacement only return policy in place.

I think I will buy from Amazon. I can return if it does not fit my laptop. But Amazon says "Usually ships within 1 to 2 months". Does that mean long delay? :(

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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#14 Post by KongMD » Mon May 16, 2011 7:17 am

The Vertex 3 Max IOPS was indeed able to fit. To get the best fit (it is very snug), I'd recommend one of two things:

1) Don't use screws to attach the SSD to the hard drive caddy. If I tried using screws, the hard drive compartment wouldn't shut correctly. It's a tight enough fit that you probably won't even need the screws, anyway.

2) As mentioned by Devhack in this thread, cut the edge of the metal caddy on one side, closest to the connection end. He says this because the drive causes the tray's sides to bulge ever so slightly.

I made notes about the installation process this weekend, and will be putting up a tutorial on my website as soon as I finish the last section on Tweaks & Optimization. Pictures of the Vertex 3 installation will also be added :) I'll put the link to the tutorial in my signature when it's ready.
ThinkPad W520
Core i7 2720QM | 120GB Vertex 3 Max IOPS | (2x2GB) 1333MHz DDR3 RAM | 1600x900 Display | Quadro 1000M | Win 7 Pro | ThinkPad b/g/n | 3 Yr Depot Warranty
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 1: Preparation
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 2: Hard Drive Swapping and Windows 7 Installation

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#15 Post by udvranto » Mon May 16, 2011 8:22 am

Sounds good! I will be looking forward for the tutorial. I will be ordering the SSD tonight. Too bad this wonderful disk can not get be installed easily. :(

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#16 Post by udvranto » Mon May 16, 2011 8:55 am

KongMD,
Did you get the 6GB/S speed? A video would be helpful. :P

Talking of video there is one video posted on it.

http://youtu.be/g6iEcxaPvHE

KongMD
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#17 Post by KongMD » Wed May 18, 2011 8:30 am

Yep, speeds are right where they're supposed to be :D This is with default ATTO settings:

Image

EDIT: By the way, part 1 of my "ThinkPads and SSDs" guide is about halfway done :)
ThinkPad W520
Core i7 2720QM | 120GB Vertex 3 Max IOPS | (2x2GB) 1333MHz DDR3 RAM | 1600x900 Display | Quadro 1000M | Win 7 Pro | ThinkPad b/g/n | 3 Yr Depot Warranty
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 1: Preparation
ThinkPads and SSDs Part 2: Hard Drive Swapping and Windows 7 Installation

udvranto
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 11:19 pm
Location: Bethel Park, PA

Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#18 Post by udvranto » Wed May 18, 2011 12:19 pm

Wow! Eye popping speed!! :mrgreen:

udvranto
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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#19 Post by udvranto » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:07 pm

KongMD,
Any update on the post that you are preparing?

Did you see this review in Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W7 ... ynadata-20 ? Now am thinking twice about buying the drive. Are you experiencing any problem?

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Re: W520 - SSD or HDD - That is the question

#20 Post by davidhbrown » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:31 pm

Over at Ars Technica yesterday, Casey Johnston did a great write-up on reported issues with wake-from-sleep and BSODs on SSDs: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/201 ... p-mode.ars Worth the time to read.
W520 (2820QM, Q2000M, FHD, mSATA SSD, dock)
Previous: T61p (died 1m past warranty :-(), Dell 8600, iBook ("Dual USB"), Gateway Millennium, Macintosh G4 , PowerPC Mac clone, Mac Duo 210, iBook (clamshell), Quadra 630, Mac IIsi, C-128, C-64, Vic-20

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