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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Got 4 of these of various makes and lord they are slow. Can I drop another non-neutered processor in there?

Trying to put some together to use in the classroom.

Thanks,

David

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:27 pm 
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I don't know, but believe that you need to tell us what motherboards these use, or at least what brand(s) and model(s) these computers are. Some may only support Pentium 4, whereas others may support Pentium D or even Core Duo.

But I think the cheapest and easiest way is to just sell all four and replace them with Core2 Duo machines. Recently I started to replace my Pentium 4 era desktops and so I have been checking prices on eBay frequently. Dell's Optiplex 760 and HP's dc7900 seem to offer the best values at this point, which is why I bought one of each. I especially like the integrated DisplayPort that both have.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:50 pm 
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dwilsonfl wrote:
Got 4 of these of various makes and lord they are slow. Can I drop another non-neutered processor in there?

Trying to put some together to use in the classroom.

Thanks,

David


David,

Can you tell me what the chipset on the MBs are, as well as the socket of the CPU? With those 2 pieces of info, you can generally piece together the limitations of the machine. I'd guess that they are socket 478 which should at the least take some of the faster P4s with better cache.

I'm also guessing that you really don't have an option to get rid of 4 to get one better one since you'd like to use them in a classroom environment. A good strategy might be to upgrade a couple of them at a time, then slowly (1 or 2 at a time) replace them with older Core Duo or C2D machines that can be found cheaply. Many of the corporate machines that come of of lease on a 3 year cycle can be found VERY cheaply. Another option might be to see if there's a mid-sized (or larger) corporation in your area. See if you can get them to donate their surplus equipment. They can write it off and are often willing to work with a school since it makes them look good in the process.

You can also use at least one of the Celeron machines as the basis for a file server since processing power is not all the relevant. My home server is an old P4 MB with a Celeron D, and an inexpensive SATA/RAID card hosting 2, 2Tb HDDs. I traded for the Window Home Server software, and reused other hardware so out of the $300 that it costs, $250 was for the 2 storage drives.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I'm a life-long educator and am more than happy to help in any way I can.

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Work- L420
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:14 pm 
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I'll check the specs of each and get back. Might be a waste of time. Thanks for the help.

I was going to try to get some T4x laptops and build 15 or so over time. But folks at church upgraded and gave me desktops. No money in them yet so I'm good from that POV. Interested in any ideas.

I have 18 third and fourth graders on Eglin AFB at Eglin Elementary. High testing 3rd and low 4th. We have three desktops on the school district net and that's it. My scheme is to try and run a wifi network off my desktop using the Win 7 ad hoc option, or if they (L3 communications - our vendor and support/ network police) shut that down, put in a server and load it up with educational software and run at least 5 more "seats" off of that.

Got to get more ways to engage these guys. Kids are all military dependents and many come with issues due to parent deployments etc. I got into this because I believe that having male teachers in elementary matters especially with these kids not seeing dad for 6mo to 15mo when they are deployed (or mom). So I'm fighting to make this year something that makes a difference for them.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:42 pm 
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I'm in my 14th year teaching, 4 in 7th, 2 in 12th, 10 year hiatus in higher ed. administration, then back to 6 more years 7th/8th grade middle school, and now the last 2 years in various grades and subject at high school....so I've been at this a while. My wife has 6 years of 3rd and 4th grade under her belt as well, so we are pretty much an education household.

At various stops in my career, I've either been the IT person, or the defacto-self-supporting IT person for lack of funding, support, or incompetent support. So, I've been down that road too. Plus, given that I've pretty much always been in education, I've had to find ways to afford things that I've needed and wanted instead of just being able to run out and buy them.

I have to really give it to you, not only dealing with education, but the military as well! :bow: Some years back, I learned about servers because I put in my own in my residence hall office at Texas Tech, so my residence assistants could get to electronic forms and a networked laser printer. I've got T4x parts if you need anything to help set up a C.O.W. (computer on wheels) rig in your classroom. I've also got some surplus items that were made redundant due to our switch to W7. They range from scanners to card readers, etc. I think I might have some of the Port replicators/docks that can be used with that series as well. So let me know what you are interested in doing.

Maybe we can even Skype our classrooms during one of my AP World History classes!

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Work- L420
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Guys
I have several Desk Top MoBos that can/will run up to 2gig Socket A's (462's) Most take PC133 (not great) but 1 or 2 will take DDR. 2gig CPU's will run XP just fine and Linux like a Bat out of Hail! I have some lower CPUs and a small amout of memory that you are welcome to also. For shipping its yours, it is just collecting dust at this time.

Side Note:This offer is for a Pay it Forward, which you are clearly doing.

Ron

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I see in my son's eyes, each day, the wonders I have squandered fortunes to possess and have sought my entire lifetime to attain. jrr 09/2011

X30 x 2
X31 x 2
T30 (down to one, the rest donated)
Z61t (my NEW primary)
Z61m (wife's new daily driver)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:52 pm 
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jronald wrote:
Guys
I have several Desk Top MoBos that can/will run up to 2gig Socket A's (462's) Most take PC133 (not great) but 1 or 2 will take DDR. 2gig CPU's will run XP just fine and Linux like a Bat out of Hail! I have some lower CPUs and a small amout of memory that you are welcome to also. For shipping its yours, it is just collecting dust at this time.

Side Note:This offer is for a Pay it Forward, which you are clearly doing.

Ron


Not speaking for David of course, but that sounds pretty good, especially the 2 boards that will take DDR. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not certain that I have enough SD RAM of larger sizes to make it worthwhile to mess with. However, DDR in at least 512Mb are relatively easy to find and pretty cheap as well. I've had good luck getting desktops to run decent on XP with one gig of RAM; as long as you keep SP3 off of it that is! I have plenty of desktop parts that I'd happily contribute to get some workstations up and running. The only thing that I don't have are hard drives.

David, I think that we could probably get something done to help you get your classroom a little more up to date, so you can apply the technology that you would like to use in the classroom. I'd bet that a number we are the only folks willing to help with this project. I currently work for a district that provides us with plenty of technology (although application is an issue), so I feel blessed in that regard. However, I've been in the "have not" situation in the past and it wasn't fun.

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Work- L420
Wife's Classroom Computers/Mini-Network Project- MacBook, PowerBook G4, iPad 2 (2), iPad Mini
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:16 pm 
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I have numerous small 3.5 HDDs, think in the 6 to 8 gig range, also yours for shipping. I dont have any type of burners, but plenty of CD-Roms.

Looks like the price of PC133 has dropped since I was last looking for some:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5-G-1-5GB-Kit ... 2569ab8269
1.5 gig is plenty for a basic XP install.
(not suggesting this seller, just the first one I spotted)

Ron

_________________
I see in my son's eyes, each day, the wonders I have squandered fortunes to possess and have sought my entire lifetime to attain. jrr 09/2011

X30 x 2
X31 x 2
T30 (down to one, the rest donated)
Z61t (my NEW primary)
Z61m (wife's new daily driver)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:25 pm 
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dwilsonfl wrote:
I'll check the specs of each and get back.


You really should do that before the discussion continues. In addition to the above information we requested, we need to know whether you have already maxed out the RAM. My Dell Dimension B110 is 2.53GHz Celeron D and even though it already has 2GB of PC3200 DDR RAM, XP SP3 is still very slow (though I don't know if it's as "slow" as the Celeron D desktops you have). If I wanted to make this computer faster, upgrading the CPU may be the only option.

BTW, have you tweaked XP to make it faster? Have you run CCleaner recently, and defragged the HDDs?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Yep, defragged and used CCleaner. They take forever to boot and open menus.Here's what I have. Been working on our home desktop which gave me the blue screen the other day after 12 years of service, all day. As well as getting Windows 7 on my T60.

Thanks for all the offers. I really appreciate it. Here's what I have and you tell me what would work. BTW I have a couple of 486 boxes I could use as cases too.

I have:

eMachines W3507
Celeron D 352 - 3.20 ghz, 512 L2 cache, 533 bus, socket 775
no RAM but it takes DDR2 4200
120GB HD
ATI express 200 w PCI express slot

Compaq Presario SR 1120NX (two of these)
330 Celeron D 2.66 ghz, 256 L2 cache, 533 bus, socket 478
1 gig PC 2700 (2x512)
80 gig 7200 HD

Compaq SR 1800nx
Celeron D 3.06ghz, 533 bus, socket 775
1 gig RAM (2x512) PC 2-3200 DDR2
100gb Maxtor hd

Quite an impressive looking office today, huh? Throw in my eMac and 1990's technology rules.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:17 pm 
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I'd say that off the top of my head, the 2 socket 775 machines would definitely give you some good upgradeability. The main issue with the eMachines unit is that they tend to put very marginal PS in them that can/do fail pretty regularly. I did a little checking and here's what I came up with:

Compaq SR 1800nx has an Asus P5RC-LA MB in it, which will support through the P4/P4 Extremes. Although I couldn't find that exact board, the P5RD series uses an ATI Radeon Express 200 chipset.

eMachines W3507. I didn't find specific MB info (Gateway support doesn't have a lot on it), it does look like it has the exact same chipset as the Compaq 1800nx so the supported processors should be the same.

Compaq SR 1120nx seems to have an Intel 845GV chipset which will support P4 chips up to 2.8Ghz. Unfortunately, it's only got 2 RAM sockets so to upgrade you're going to have to lose something, but I'm sure you already knew that.

IMHO, these four machines should all be pretty useable with a good clean load of XP, as long as you upgrade them and keep updates from loading SP3. I don't have anything in the way of P4 cpus sitting around here, but I think I can help you out with some RAM. I have 1 stick of DDR2 sitting here in the box and It's a 2Gb/667 module so it should run in the eMachines just fine. I have a bunch of peripherals as well as ThinkPad parts (of course), so what could your classroom use? I have a nice flatbed scanner that will run fine on XP, but not W7, as well as a couple of laser printers that are projects (read need work). Did you say that you have some T4x machines that you'd like to get up and running?

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Work- L420
Wife's Classroom Computers/Mini-Network Project- MacBook, PowerBook G4, iPad 2 (2), iPad Mini
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:27 pm 
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dwilsonfl wrote:
They take forever to boot and open menus.


Then they are definitely much slower than my Dell Dimension, which is strange because all four of them have faster CPUs than my 2.53GHz Cel D, and 1GB RAM shouldn't be that bad for XP. I bet a clean install of XP will fix your problems. Oh, what anti-virus programs are you running? Some of them can really bog down older systems. I recommend Avast.

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Dell OptiPlex 9010 & 760, Precision 390; HP d7900, Elite 8300, 8200 & 8000
Acer X193W+BD; Dell 3008WFP,U2711,2408WFP,sp2309w,ST2210B,2007FP; HP ZR2740w,L2201x; Lenovo L220X; Samsung 2343BWX


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:22 am 
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dwilsonfl wrote:
Thanks for all the offers. I really appreciate it. Here's what I have and you tell me what would work. BTW I have a couple of 486 boxes I could use as cases too.


Here's my 2 cents worth on the 486 boxes. My take is that boxes are always useful as long as they take a standard configuration MB. So, if they are ATX cases, or Mini-ATX, then you are in business. You can probably get some donation in the form of P4 motherboards that'll fit in them, and then build up from there as you get parts. If you throw a Ubuntu (or something like it) load on there, the kids can still use that for websurfing. If you can get ahold of some full sized ATX boards with 4 RAM sockets, then your in a position to use RAM modules as small as 256Mb and still have a decent 1Gb after you're done. I'd bet that virtually everybody on the forum has a drawer full of old 256Mb sticks laying around since most of us started in computers back in the days of the high priced RAM and have trouble throwing it out!

If they are the old beige boxes, then you can can get the kids involved by painting them up into something cool and interesting, maybe with their artwork, team stickers, unit/squadron insignia....whatever. If you have a little while, can you make a "wish list" for your classroom?

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Family Daily Drivers- X1, T500 (2), T400, ThinkPad Android Tablet, iPad Air, iPad Mini 2, iPad Mini
Work- L420
Wife's Classroom Computers/Mini-Network Project- MacBook, PowerBook G4, iPad 2 (2), iPad Mini
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Well, Christmas break finally came!

Whew. Hardest job I have ever had.

So I'm thinking of running a wifi network using Connectify off my teacher's desktop with these desktops I've scounged up. Apparently W7 allows you to do like a hotspot deal. Just have to have the right adapter to broadcast. (As long as the district MIS fellows don't shut me down)

I do have two beige boxes so any MBs I could stick in there would work, and RAM for basically any of them would help. I have CD/DVD drives and HDrives.

Waiting to see what Santa brings.

Already have two 1 gen Nooks I'll be taking back to class with me after the break. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:31 am 
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Let me know if any of my stash will work. As a side note, Im sure they are ATX boards, you need a full size case.

Ron

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I see in my son's eyes, each day, the wonders I have squandered fortunes to possess and have sought my entire lifetime to attain. jrr 09/2011

X30 x 2
X31 x 2
T30 (down to one, the rest donated)
Z61t (my NEW primary)
Z61m (wife's new daily driver)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:54 am 
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They are full sized cases. One is a full tower.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Not sure if you can use it or not, but we just upgraded our DirecTV DVR system, which means a dual band wireless n router I purchased six months ago is no longer needed. I don't completely understand how these things work, but I had it connected to one of our DirecTV DVR's in order to communicate with our home wireless network. Here's the description I lifted from an auction website:

Cisco/Linksys Dual-Band Wireless N Gaming and Video Adapter
Model WET610N

The versatile Wireless-N Ethernet Bridge can make any wired Ethernet-equipped device a part of your wireless network. At home, use the video-optimized Bridge to connect digital video recorders, set-top boxes, or computers to your Wireless-N network. In the office, convert your wired-Ethernet printer, scanner, camera, network storage device, notebook, or desktop for wireless connectivity. Since the Bridge is based on dual-band Wireless-N, it works with any device supporting Wi-Fi standards, and is compatible with Wireless-G, -A, and -B.

The Wireless-N Ethernet Bridge works on any platform and under any operating system! Since there's no drivers to load, setup is a snap -- configure the network settings through your PC's web browser, then plug it into your device and go.

To protect your data and privacy, all wireless transmissions can be encrypted with industrial-strength Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA) security. Wi-Fi Protected Setup™ helps make secure connections pushbutton simple. Let the Wireless-N Ethernet Bridge from Linksys open up new possibilities for your wireless network.

Features:
Special circuitry helps create a strong, stable link to reduce video glitches
Converts wired-Ethernet devices to Wireless-N network connectivity
Works with Windows, Macintosh, and Linux computers, Media Center Extenders, DVRs, NAS devices – anything with an Ethernet port!
Wireless-N technology uses multiple radios per band to create robust signals for better range and speed, with reduced dead spots
Operates in the 2.4 or 5GHz radio bands to minimize interference
Wi-Fi Protected Setup™ helps make secure connections pushbutton simple
Tech Specs
Standards: IEEE 802.3u, 802.11g, 802.11b, 802.11a, draft 802.11n
Buttons: Reset, Wi-Fi Protected Setup™


It only has one ethernet port, but I think you could make one of your computers or printers wireless with this. If you can use it, PM me your address and I will get it shipped out to you. It comes with software and instructions. There is a separate set of instructions for DirecTV set up, but the main instructions are how to set up a wireless connection with any hardwired equipment/gaming system/computer/etc.

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X200-7459-BW3(AFFS-Glossy) + X61-7674-Y23 + X61s-7666-3EU
+ X60s-1702-CTO
+ X100e-3508-CTO + T410i-2516-73U
+ T410-2537-N71+ T410-2537-FP9
+ W510-4391-C52(FHD-Glossy)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:14 am 
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I spotted these a few weeks ago:
http://www.txmicro.com/AMD-Athlon-XP-20 ... -1321.html
Cant beat the price!

Ron

_________________
I see in my son's eyes, each day, the wonders I have squandered fortunes to possess and have sought my entire lifetime to attain. jrr 09/2011

X30 x 2
X31 x 2
T30 (down to one, the rest donated)
Z61t (my NEW primary)
Z61m (wife's new daily driver)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:36 am 
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Here are the Mobo's
A7V133
A7V133-C
V400ADBL
K7AMA
K7TA-H x 2
With the exception of the last 2, all are native 266fsb's. The K7TA-H are A7V Asus clones and overclock like fiends, so they might be usable. As I said, they are yours if you need them.

Ron

_________________
I see in my son's eyes, each day, the wonders I have squandered fortunes to possess and have sought my entire lifetime to attain. jrr 09/2011

X30 x 2
X31 x 2
T30 (down to one, the rest donated)
Z61t (my NEW primary)
Z61m (wife's new daily driver)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Ron what CPUs would fit those MBs? Trying to wrap my brain around what MB, what CPU, and what memory is just beyond my grasp.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:19 am 
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With the exception of the last 2 boards, any Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP that has a Front Side Bus of 266 (266FSB): http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?rt=nc&CP ... 6.c0.m1539
The problem I have found with anything over about 2.00 gig ( http://www.txmicro.com/AMD-Athlon-XP-20 ... -1321.html ) is keeping the bloody things cool. You MUST run the biggest cooler you can stuff in the case. I also found not a whole lot if difference in the speed once I went above 2 for the things I did. I currently have 5 desktops running at home, all of them are at 2. Really only 2 of them run 24/7, the others are fired up as needed.

Ron

_________________
I see in my son's eyes, each day, the wonders I have squandered fortunes to possess and have sought my entire lifetime to attain. jrr 09/2011

X30 x 2
X31 x 2
T30 (down to one, the rest donated)
Z61t (my NEW primary)
Z61m (wife's new daily driver)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:57 pm 
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Well a couple of MBs and I could scrounge some chips off eBay. Or I actually have a couple of P4 chips here.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:13 am 
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dwilsonfl, is Craigslist useful in your area? For all four of the cities I have lived in, very cheap or even free computers can be found on Craigslist now and then. Just two days ago I sold a fully functional Dell OptiPlex GX280 desktop (minus the HDD) for $20 on the Ann Arbor Craigslist. That's almost as cheap as buying just a P4 chip off eBay. I will probably sell my remaining GX280 in a week or two.

BTW, have you tried clean-installing Windows on these Celeron D desktops, as I suggested earlier? I am almost certain that would speed them up significantly. I really don't think it's worth spending any more more money upgrading these machines or building P4 systems, because when XP support expires in April 2014 you would have to upgrade again to allow you to run a newer OS. Just stick with what you have now, clean-install XP and tweak it to optimize performance, and keep using them until April 2014.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:54 am 
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Craigslist here doesn't have much that's inexpensive but I'll start checking it more often. I moderate the local Freecycle here and do ask for help on there - just got a HP laser printer yesterday.

As to what I have now, Win 7 runs fine on P4s. But I only one license which I use on thsi laptop, and the desktops have XP. Two of the desktops have fresh XP installs w/o extra programs. I think most of the speed problem is in the Celeron chips and RAM. You have to load up the RAM to make up for the CPU and old RAM is more expensive than new. When XP support ends maybe we'll be better off or maybe I'll run Linux.

This is not directed at you but I feel I need to explain this.

I've been teaching since August and have already spent over $400 of my own money (out of an amazing $32,548 base pay - then take away $7200 for health and dental insurance to get an idea of what I have to work with) to help my classroom have the resources that would help me teach. My kids include one with autism, one emotionally disturbed, one bipolar, and half are on meds. These are the kids of America's military. As an example, one 9 year old's dad is a marine going through Explosive Ordinance school on base. He's been deployed 5 times in her 9 years.

They all have issues. But I love them fiercely and though I'm not a good teacher yet, I am going to be, and they are going to know someone believed in them and did everything he could to help them succeed.

I say that to explain why I'm trying to do this at all, and do this pretty much for free.

Thanks for your insight. I'll definitely be on the Craigslist alert.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:16 pm 
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dwilsonfl wrote:
I think most of the speed problem is in the Celeron chips and RAM.


I agree, but what I have been trying to say is that Pentium 4 isn't much faster. To convince yourself of this, go to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php and look up benchmarks for Celeron D versus Pentium 4. The 3.2GHz Celeron D you already have has a score of 393, whereas 3.2GHz Pentium 4 is 524, only 33% faster, a difference that would be noticeable but far from earthshaking.

dwilsonfl wrote:
This is not directed at you but I feel I need to explain this....I say that to explain why I'm trying to do this at all, and do this pretty much for free.


You already explained this earlier and I appreciate your altruistic behavior. I too have contributed thousands of dollars worth of equipment to my workplace over the years. Because it's your hard-earned money, you want to spend it wisely and IMHO upgrading from Celeron to P4 just isn't worth it, unless it's free and it really gives a performance boost -- notice on the benchmark site that many P4 processors are actually slower than some Celeron D chips. 3.8GHz P4 would be a significant upgrade but it's not cheap, at least $20 shipped on eBay.

I think getting some RAM for your eMachines W3507 would be the best thing to do right now. Unfortunately I don't have any extra DDR2 sticks to send you.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Right now I cannot seem to get Connectify to work so until that happens the extra PCs would be standalone and not nearly as useful since most of the stuff I want to use is web based. I should just cough up $50 a month and get a Mifi. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:10 pm 
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http://www.smoothwall.org/

Well, there you go.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Not sure what that would do for me. But thanks.

The IT pros are very uptight about anyone connecting anything they didn't get lots of $$ for to the network (and for other reasons obviously). So I was trying to find a way to connect the PCs I have to they network through my teacher's desktop. I read that WIN7 has an ad hoc wireless network hotspot capability and thought that would do the trick. I'd just run 3-5 more PCs through that "gateway." (at least until they caught on)

But connectify isn't working to get me to the internet.

So I will have to use the PCs in a separate stand alone - neutered - network or several standalone stations and find some software to put on them. They can use them for writing, I could use old CD encyclopedias, games etc., but it will not integrate as well.

Gonna have to ponder this some more.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Use an old router or switch.
Plug your own wired cable in the WAN input of the router/switch, and connect your own and the other machines to the other ethernet ports with ethernet cables.
I have an unused SMC7008ABR Barricade 8-port broadband router lying about, doing nothing.
It also has an LPT1 printer port so you could everyone have printing as well, using just 1 printer.
http://www.smc.com/index.cfm?event=view ... SA&pid=969
Let me know if you could use that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:25 pm 
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dwilsonfl - "I could use old CD encyclopedias, games etc., but it will not integrate as well."

Does that mean you could use some 'older' (as in 2000 - 2008) educational games? I have a good amount of elementary level educational games, to include typing/keyboarding programs, reading, math, spanish, music. Most are about the age of "Reader Rabbit" (i.e. 2001) with a few more current/2008. Let me know if you can use them, as they are just gathering dust on my shelf.

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