Apple 1st High Res Retina Laptops/ Tablets, Others Follow?

[Puppy]

There http://www.anandtech.com/show/5998/macb ... y-analysis are full-size PNG screenshots of various scaling of the Mac display. It has confirmed my doubts. For example 1920x1080, the Color window font has these ugly green artifacts (it is supposed to be black text on grey background, not a green text) on nearly every character. Don't mention the font is still too large that smaller font (similar to Courier New 9 on native 15" 1920x1080) will look even worse. You can see it at first glance. Reminds me old CRT monitors with badly adjusted convergence.

[RealBlackStuff]

Why are you people all so gung-ho about this crappy competition?
It's only Apple, for crying out loud! They'll dig their own grave in good time!

[twistero]

For example 1920x1080, the Color window font has these ugly green artifacts (it is supposed to be black text on grey background, not a green text) on nearly every character . . . You can see it at first glance.

Are we looking at the same screenshot? Because when viewing them full size, I don't see any green artifacts on any of the screenshots after many many glances.
Makes me wonder whether you have an LCD with different sub-pixel ordering than most of the world, that when you look at screenshots with sub-pixel rendering everything is messed up for you.

[loyukfai]

According to the iFixit teardown, the retina MBP has more juice capacity than the previous model, but the battery life remains more or less the same.

Unlike the iPad, the retina MBP had other parts to shave so it didn't manage to gain some weight.

BTW, thinness and lightness are good, but the serviceability of the retina MBP has dropped another notch.

Interesting.

Ref: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook- ... 9l9FLVaZfK

[csioucs]

According to the iFixit teardown, the retina MBP has more juice capacity than the previous model, but the battery life remains more or less the same.

Unlike the iPad, the retina MBP had other parts to shave so it didn't manage to gain some weight.

BTW, thinness and lightness are good, but the serviceability of the retina MBP has dropped another notch.

Interesting.

Ref: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook- ... 9l9FLVaZfK

Yes, not only the display has a low serviceabilty. But the battery as well... It sounds like your holding forever your peace. Is there anything that's upgradable there? Or user-replaceable. Perhaps it shouldn't as apple is not really looking toward that market, or yet, it would want to convert us, to pay them for what we could do... Those are good decisions for making service a better viable cow to milk if things go bad for unfortunate users. You want to upgrade, change the battery, come to us . That's one reason for waiting for retina displays on thinkpads.

But of course, cashew nots being a problem one can always gracefully flow the dough without ho(p)e.* And for retina on laptop even I would endure such limitations - as an old saying goes in my country: Much would a hag endure for beauty.

Memorable words by ifixit:
Great news. The battery is no longer screwed into the machine.
Horrible News. Apple chose to use the dreaded g-word: glue.

Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace.
_____________________________
*pentalobe, applelobe screwdriver

[lophiomys]

re csioucs
I would also prefer to buy a Thinkpad with Retina Display and classic keyboard,
but I am tired of waiting now, since from Lenovo we did not get good screens
since the T4xp/T60p 15.0inch UXGA/IPS machines, IIRC the last ones dated 2006 or 2007.
It is solely Apple, who is pushing the market, and I think we have to let
"money talk", so that the bloodless bean counters at Lenobo will take notice of their long term customers.
With the Retina MBP and including my first try at Apple in 2009 I will have thrown 5000,- EURs at Apple during 3 years.
That is quite an amount. Last dire hope stays the Anniversary Edition.

[Puppy]

Are we looking at the same screenshot? Because when viewing them full size, I don't see any green artifacts on any of the screenshots after many many glances.

It shows the difference how your eyes are sensitive on this kind of blurrines. Open the screenshot in MS Paint, zoom the image and move to area with "Brightness" word in Color dialog. You will find there are green pixels next to the black ones.

[twistero]

It shows the difference how your eyes are sensitive on this kind of blurrines. Open the screenshot in MS Paint, zoom the image and move to area with "Brightness" word in Color dialog. You will find there are green pixels next to the black ones.

Why, yes, of course there is a green pixel. That's how sub-pixel rendering works: it only looks good at original 1:1 resolution, and any zooming completely wreck the effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering
You are probably right in that I'm less sensitive to this blurriness, but have you investigated in the sub-pixel arrangement of your screen yet? Maybe it is because you have an unusual screen, that makes these artifacts obvious.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/subpixel.php

[Puppy]

Why, yes, of course there is a green pixel. That's how sub-pixel rendering works: it only looks good at original 1:1 resolution

Not (for me). I can see that clearly regardless of LCD panel type (I have NEC 2090UXi A-TW-IPS, X220 IPS and X31 TN). I always have to disable all these anti-aliasing techologies because I find the "ghosting" rendering extremly disturbing and hardly readable.

Maybe it is because you have an unusual screen, that makes these artifacts obvious. http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/subpixel.php

Good site. The (no smoothing) is the only sharp readable text. The (greyscale smoothing) is tolerable for short-term reading but I wouldn't be able to read it for a long time. The rest is completely horrible and bothers me immediately because it looks like out-of-focus (convergence problem) old CRT monitor.

[dr_st]

Good site. The (no smoothing) is the only sharp readable text. The (greyscale smoothing) is tolerable for short-term reading but I wouldn't be able to read it for a long time. The rest is completely horrible and bothers me immediately because it looks like out-of-focus (convergence problem) old CRT monitor.

You have very sensitive eyes. Don't know if it's good or bad in general, but in this case it's clearly not so good for you.

[Puppy]

You have very sensitive eyes.

I'm aware of it. Disabling all these make-it-blurry technologies is becoming more and more complicated. For instance I'm unable to disable it completely in Windows 7 even with Windows Classic theme. I also had to stop using Internet Explorer because version 9 renders horrible text and it is not possible to turn it off (as it was in version 8 ). And don't get me started about single-chip DLP projectors and its rainbow effect. It is another tricky technology I can't stand

[ausmike]

[quote="Puppy...... I also had to stop using Internet Explorer because version 9 renders horrible text and it is not possible to turn it off (as it was in version 8 ). And don't get me started about single-chip DLP projectors and its rainbow effect. It is another tricky technology I can't stand [/quote]

Yips > i am with same issues >at time VERY F** Frustrating ..... Ah well !

Cant waite for my NEW NEW RETNA DISPLAY MAC
Shipping status > ETA tomorrow!!

[pianowizard]

Cant waite for my NEW NEW RETNA DISPLAY MAC
Shipping status > ETA tomorrow!!

Will this be your first-ever Mac? And will you be running Windows on it? I read on Notebookreview that when running Windows, the Retina Macbook Pro will probably go up to only 1920x1200.

I think we have to let
"money talk", so that the bloodless bean counters at Lenobo will take notice of their long term customers.
With the Retina MBP and including my first try at Apple in 2009 I will have thrown 5000,- EURs at Apple during 3 years. That is quite an amount.

The Sony SE Series is also worth looking at.

[twistero]

I'm aware of it. Disabling all these make-it-blurry technologies is becoming more and more complicated. For instance I'm unable to disable it completely in Windows 7 even with Windows Classic theme. I also had to stop using Internet Explorer because version 9 renders horrible text and it is not possible to turn it off (as it was in version 8 ). And don't get me started about single-chip DLP projectors and its rainbow effect. It is another tricky technology I can't stand

I'm glad I don't have your eyes.

This post should tell you how to disable ClearType in Win7.

[lophiomys]

The Sony SE Series is also worth looking at.

Thanks for the hint, I just noticed it a few hours ago on Anandtech,
besides the Asus ZenBook Prime.

[crashnburn]

Yips > i am with same issues >at time VERY F** Frustrating ..... Ah well !

Cant waite for my NEW NEW RETNA DISPLAY MAC
Shipping status > ETA tomorrow!!

Would love to hear some REAL REVIEWS especially from a Thinkpad Veteran member. Love to see how you put Windows & Linux on top and play around to see how it works.

[ausmike]

hola crash*... Namaste !

Win8 = already no issue on Viz (win 7 & 8 runs ok on mac pro current models so dont see why it wont on newer ones - juz sceen me msot keen on seeing)
but then am NOT A FAN of NEW NEW windows UI

Nope still waiting on UPS for their truck to arrive !* waiting pot never boils***

[ausmike]

my kids love this LG >over most other screen around the house <have 6 other various brand screens> and where lots cheaper than comporable IPS screens from Lenovo and others ...
its near FULL TIME HOOKED up to the Thinkpoad Edge520 and PS3 etc etc...never missed a beat yet

[ZaZ]

I read on Notebookreview that when running Windows, the Retina Macbook Pro will probably go up to only 1920x1200.

Don't believe everything you read. Here's a pic of the MBP Retina running at native resolution, but who can read it at that DPI?

[crashnburn]

Don't believe everything you read. Here's a pic of the MBP Retina running at native resolution, but who can read it at that DPI?

Can you or that person "increase the size of items using Windows Desktop control panel" and then see it / snapshot it?

[loyukfai]

As suspected, Windows 8's scaling for the traditional desktop is still the good-old-but-kind-of-crippled stuff...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the- ... y-review/9

At such stage I'm not sure if building a "retina" PC is a good idea or not. Maybe yes if 1) if the apps one use are particularly good citizens at scaling, 2) if one uses Metro apps exclusively, or 3) one doesn't care about the odd scaling behaviours exhibited.

Cheers.

[ZaZ]

Can you or that person "increase the size of items using Windows Desktop control panel" and then see it / snapshot it?

I cannot since it's not mine. The pic is from a thread in Apple forum over on NBR if you wish to ask or perhaps they've already posted it.

[pianowizard]

Don't believe everything you read. Here's a pic of the MBP Retina running at native resolution

I probably just got Windows and the Mac OS mixed up. Mac OS indeed limits the 15.4" Retina displays resolution to 1920x1200 -- see http://news.cnet.com/8301-33620_3-57454 ... entBody;2n

but who can read it at that DPI?

A few people can and in fact do. Desktop and laptop LCDs with pixel densities exceeding 200 DPI have been around for a long time (the IBM T221, the Toshiba Librettos U100 and U105, the Sony P Series netbook, etc.) and I know of people who use these at their native resolutions without scaling. It's difficult, but these folks do it anyway.

[Puppy]

http://liliputing.com/2012/06/asus-zenb ... ption.html
The Asus Zenbook Prime UX21A is an ultrabook with an Ivy Bridge processor and an 11.6 inch, 1920 x 1080 pixel display.

[loyukfai]

The 13" rMBP apparently uses an even more interesting trick to solve the scaling problem - the panel has a native resolution of 2560x1600, the OS exposes a resolution of 1440x900, upscales everything to 2880x1800, then downscales back to the screen's native resolution.

The high pixel density apparently makes the scaling artefacts un-perceivable.

Now we need Microsoft to implement something like this...

Cheers.

[ThinkRob]

The 13" rMBP apparently uses an even more interesting trick to solve the scaling problem - the panel has a native resolution of 2560x1600, the OS exposes a resolution of 1440x900, upscales everything to 2880x1800, then downscales back to the screen's native resolution.

<cringe>

And this was easier than finishing the work on making Quartz resolution-independent how?

I mean, it's an impressive hack, but... ew.

[Puppy]

Archos 97 Titanium HD Tablet - 9.7" 4:3 2048x1536 IPS

Archos can do it, Lenovo can't ?

[bill bolton]

Archos can do it

Yeah, sure thing.....

"As pretty as it shines at the desk, it is only half as nice to look at outdoors. In other words, it is very difficult to see anything or recognize displayed content on the screen with ease. The glossy screen contributes to that. The screen's performance did not completely convince us outdoors."

(snip)

"As to the screen's viewing angle stability, it is very dependent on the environmental conditions. An acceptable picture quality in even very acute angles is observed indoors. However, the screen's possibilities are soon exhausted outdoors and the user looks upon an empty-looking, reflective surface."

[pianowizard]

Yeah, sure thing.....(snip)

Did you notice that Puppy highlighted "4:3"? He was asking why Lenovo couldn't bring back 4:3.

[Ibthink]

Lenovo has the ThinkPad Helix with a 11,6" 1920x1080 displays, which is highest-dpi ever display on a ThinkPad (nearly 190dpi). This is very close to what Apple calls "Retina".