Software question: MS Office alternatives

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atanasoff · #1 Post by **atanasoff** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:19 pm

I have W7 and don't care to pay the MS tax for Office.

Options:
1. Is there an inexpensive substitute which is not buggy and reads/writes MS format files? Must include Access compatibility.
2. Older full version of Office, retail box off ebay, that's still over $100.
3. Unused Product Key Card from MS, if available, which seems to be around $70. Then I'd need the media, so not much savings off retail box.

4. Open source? Is there one that works without headaches? I don't need all of the billion Office features, but do need an approximation of it so that when I need to use Office I can use the same methods, and it should read/write in compatible file formats.

#2 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:05 pm

There are LibreOffice and OpenOffice available for free, plus a lot more.
Both will do what you need.
See also here: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/ ... ernatives/

loyukfai · #3 Post by **loyukfai** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:41 am

Libre/OpenOffice has come a long way with regard to MS Office compatibility, but they're still something developed outside Redmond.

However, given that there are compatibility issues even between different versions of MS Office, they may (or may not) suffice for your needs.

At the end of the day, why not give them a try yourself?

Cheers.

#4 Post by **schen** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:34 pm

I use Google's products now that we've gone wholesale to Google Drive at school. On a daily basis, I use their version of word processor and the presentation software. It's not as bad as I envisioned, although I do run into some formatting issues especially converting my lectures from PowerPoint. However, it's hard to deny the convenience of just throwing stuff into the "drive" and having it wherever I need it. It's really helped in keeping me from having to upgrade the smaller SSDs (64Gb) that I use in many of our machines. On my X301, I upgraded from the original Samsung to the Intel 320 just to get TRIM and not so much for more storage.

elray · #5 Post by **elray** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:10 pm

atanasoff wrote:I have W7 and don't care to pay the MS tax for Office.

Options:
1. Is there an inexpensive substitute which is not buggy and reads/writes MS format files? Must include Access compatibility.
2. Older full version of Office, retail box off ebay, that's still over $100.
3. Unused Product Key Card from MS, if available, which seems to be around $70. Then I'd need the media, so not much savings off retail box.

Where did you find Office PKC's supporting Access for $70?

(You don't need media, you can download from Microsoft/Digital River.)

jcvjcvjcvjcv · #6 Post by **jcvjcvjcvjcv** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:09 am

I would pay the "tax" rather than get my documents in "the cloud". For all I've seen compatibility with Open Office is superficial only. I would not finish a document that someone with Open Office messed around in.

Google adoption in universities is a plague.... why on earth would I want to give my mobile phone number to google just so I can get my mail in Outlook?

precip9 · #7 Post by **precip9** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:25 am

There are versions of Open Office and Libre Office that work, and other versions that don't work. Both have abysmal quality control. But after a major botch, there is typically a minor release that works well.

Open Office Writer 4.01 doesn't crash. I haven't tried the PowerPoint substitute since version 3, when it was absolutely terrible. Something was fundamentally wrong with the programming. Have they fixed it in 4.01? I don't know.

I still use Office 2000; it's faster, and still has functions unduplicated by the freebees.

Like some others, I avoid the cloud. It makes me nervous. On the other hand, Google's presentation software may be better than Open Office/Libre Office. I wouldn't be surprised if it were.

unix_joe · #8 Post by **unix_joe** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:22 pm

OpenOffice.org 4.x has code from the old IBM Lotus Symphony. It would be my first choice, even over LibreOffice.

I have had bad luck purchasing the "OEM Product Keys" off eBay. Bad luck, as in, the "You may be a victim of software counterfeiting" message popping up after about three months. Embarrassing with my clients, and I ended up having to eat the cost of a few retail versions out of pocket. I don't doubt that the keys are legit, but I question the integrity of the warehouse where these keys were stored.

For my part-time job, and for all of my household use, we use Google Docs. It has been around for at least five years, since I remember planning my wedding with it. These days I keep track of my platoon, and plan trips/budgets with my wife using docs. It has an offline mode for Windows, Chromebook, and Mac. It has completely replaced the need for what used to be "Microsoft Works."

Summilux · #9 Post by **Summilux** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:05 pm

Word, Powerpoint and Photoshop are still unmatched "star" softwares.
But as someone pointed out, Open Office has come a long way and is now quite potent. The said could be said of GIMP.
Plus, there's been some symbolic progress for the open source, with the support of Open Office files in MS Word.

If you have to manipulate Microsoft documents, you should get MS Office. Clearly.
For your personal use, Open Office should be more than enough though.

Google Docs?
There are actually cool features that I remember using when working on a shared document, but:
- I'm not sure how well implemented the offline features are;
- It's Google. Not a state-owned or community-operated free service, it's a Google service. It'd rather not encourage their giant data-mining.

#10 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:28 am

Just thought of something.
Before M$-Office I was a huge fan of WordPerfect.
I used V5.2 (which I still have) for years, even upgraded to 6.0 and 6.1 (which I sold donkeys years ago)
Then M$ somehow interfered and I've used Office ever since.
How come nobody even mentioned WordPerfect?
Currently on offer at Amazon for $47.42 http://www.amazon.com/WordPerfect-Offic ... B007USOX1W
A heck of a lot cheaper than M$!

IMHO Office 2003 was, and still is, by far the best Office version.
To accommodate my customers' docs, I 'got hold' of M$ Office 2010 Pro Plus, but I can't stand their stupid ribbon-culture.
Until I found UbitMenu, which puts the 'old' 2003-menu back in.
Absolutely a MUST if you are using any newer Office version.

PS: I am not affiliated with either, just thought folks might be interested.

#11 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:25 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:How come nobody even mentioned WordPerfect?
Currently on offer at Amazon for $47.42 http://www.amazon.com/WordPerfect-Offic ... B007USOX1W
A heck of a lot cheaper than M$!

Indeed! A great catch.

RealBlackStuff wrote:IMHO Office 2003 was, and still is, by far the best Office version.
To accommodate my customers' docs, I 'got hold' of M$ Office 2010 Pro Plus, but I can't stand their stupid ribbon-culture.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

There is nothing "stupid" about the ribbon. Many things are more easily accessible with the ribbon then they were in the old menu-style interface. Some things are less accessible, but there are always such tradeoffs.

On the whole, the ribbon is by no means less intuitive than the menus. People are only complaining because they have gotten used to the menu system after years of use, and now they have this change forced upon them. You would be complaining just as loudly (and likely more) if you had been used to the ribbon and somebody just took and reshuffled all your ribbons into multi-level menus.

Once you get past the ribbon hatred, you will find that every new version of Office introduced some useful features that were not there in the previous version, and typically made some common tasks easier. 99% of the time there are no downsides (i.e., there are no things that worked well in one version, and were suddenly more difficult to do / broken in the next).

Among the things I can think of (and that's just Word, and just off the top of my head. There are many more):

* Built-in save to PDF, which even automatically creates bookmarks from headings - since 2007
* Built-in LateX-style elegant equation editor (although Mathtype still fares better with complex formulas) - since 2007
* Improved built-in reference/bibliography management - since 2007
* Improved search (navigation panel) - since 2010

RealBlackStuff wrote:Until I found UbitMenu, which puts the 'old' 2003-menu back in.
Absolutely a MUST if you are using any newer Office version.

While I disagree that it is a must in any way, it may be a good way for those of us who insist on never adapting to any change. Thanks for the link.

sir_synthsalot · #12 Post by **sir_synthsalot** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:24 pm

The ribbon makes perfect sense. Instead of having a million buttons cluttering the interface, the ribbon puts them in different categories. From a design point of view though, I don't think the ribbon is stupid or flawed. The issue is from old users being used to the old interface, which I could understand.

The Spirit of X21 · #13 Post by **The Spirit of X21** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:29 am

I've been using Kingsoft Office, it's snappy on my X61 and reads/writes DOC format and reads DOCX (the paid version lets you write DOCX):

http://www.kingsoftstore.com/

pianowizard · #14 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:09 pm

dr_st wrote:I disagree wholeheartedly. There is nothing "stupid" about the ribbon. Many things are more easily accessible with the ribbon then they were in the old menu-style interface.

Same here. However, I do think it was unwise for Microsoft to make such drastic changes so suddenly, because many users (especially older ones) couldn't adapt to these changes so quickly. The same is true for Windows 8: in most respects, it's the best OS ever, but many users (again, especially the older ones) can't adapt. These users stick with an inferior OS (e.g. Windows 7) just to avoid learning a new UI, while taking every available opportunity to blast Windows 8. I find this both sad and annoying.

Besides the ribbon, another great feature that came with Office 2007 is the new ***X file format. Files are now smaller, and the size of a PowerPoint file no longer changes each time I open it.

#15 Post by **dr_st** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:53 pm

Windows 8 UI does have objective problems - it contradicts itself. Some things can only be done in Metro, some things only using standard desktop UI, often with no visible consistency/logic behind it.

pianowizard · #16 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:58 pm

dr_st wrote:Windows 8 UI does have objective problems - it contradicts itself. Some things can only be done in Metro, some things only using standard desktop UI, often with no visible consistency/logic behind it.

I agree, and this is why I said 8 was the best in "most respects", not "all respects". But I do like the Metro start menu, where I find what I need MUCH faster than I do on the Classic menu dating back to Windows 95.

elray · #17 Post by **elray** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:03 pm

pianowizard wrote: Same here. However, I do think it was unwise for Microsoft to make such drastic changes so suddenly, because many users (especially older ones) couldn't adapt to these changes so quickly. The same is true for Windows 8: in most respects, it's the best OS ever, but many users (again, especially the older ones) can't adapt.

The ribbon doesn't bother me, and moreover, it can be minimized, but the theft of vertical pixels - in of all things, a Wysiwyg office suite, at the same time the hardware industry went down the 16:9 road, suggests the Office team is just as clueless as the Lenovo group that brought us buttonless clickpads. At the very least, the ribbon should be movable to a vertical column position, just like the taskbar. Seven years later...

As for your [seemingly] condescending interpretation that "older ones" might not be able to adapt to changes, you overlook the fundamental question - were any of the changes even necessary? How hard would it have been to have a backwards-compatible "classic Office interface" option, instead of dictating to the poor consumer, unable to buy a retail copy of 2K3, that she must adapt to MS' whims?

The ribbon was change-for-change-sake, intended to give Office a facelift so as to justify new purchases, and while I disagree with that philosophy, I understand the necessity of sales and marketing. But they didn't have to break something that didn't need fixing.

pianowizard · #18 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:02 pm

elray wrote:The ribbon doesn't bother me, and moreover, it can be minimized, but the theft of vertical pixels - in of all things, a Wysiwyg office suite, at the same time the hardware industry went down the 16:9 road, suggests the Office team is just as clueless as the Lenovo group that brought us buttonless clickpads. At the very least, the ribbon should be movable to a vertical column position, just like the taskbar. Seven years later...

I suspect it would be harder to arrange the icons if the ribbon was vertical.

elray wrote:As for your [seemingly] condescending interpretation that "older ones" might not be able to adapt to changes, you overlook the fundamental question - were any of the changes even necessary?

This fundamental question was already discussed by dr_st above: yes, it's an improvement over the pre-2007 menus. Granted, the changes were not necessary -- few things in the world are necessary -- but on the whole they did improve the menus. That being said, I still haven't fully adapted to the new menus, and once in a while I still use old keyboard shortcuts to select certain features. I salute the Office design team for retaining these shortcuts. So, to some extent, I am one of those "older folks" who can't adapt, at least not fully. Sorry if I sounded condescending in my previous post, but I was just stating the obvious: we all know young people can adapt faster.

#19 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:18 pm

FYI: I do find your opinions 'remarkable' and remarkably ignore-worthy.
Admitted, I am an older user, but with tons of Mainframe and PC knowledge and experience under my belt (been at it since 1968),
I do know what's good and what's not so good!

Either way, let's not get into our battling stations...

killer · #20 Post by **killer** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:05 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:FYI: I do find your opinions 'remarkable' and remarkably ignore-worthy.
Admitted, I am an older user, but with tons of Mainframe and PC knowledge and experience under my belt (been at it since 1968),
I do know what's good and what's not so good!

Either way, let's not get into our battling stations...

Like RBS, I have been involved with computers since 1967 when I started with IBM. Young people may appear to adapt quicker but it is a choice.
Older people can choose to adapt quickly, even quicker if they wish. Most choose not to change or adapt.
I adapt as I see fit. Win 7 was a great step forward from XP. Win 8 seemed a waste of a release until I saw it on a Microsoft tablet. Then it made sense. The question here, however, is about MS Office alternatives.

If you don't want to pay for MS Office there are alternatives. They are free but might not be as good. Open Office is one example. It reads in any MS document and allows you to amend and save it. Unless you are a prolific producer of documents then the cheap or free versions will always allow you to turn edited documents into a PDF using free software like CutePDF.

It's an easy choice for me. I use a copy of MS Office 2007 but I won't upgrade it any more. It is so old now that I'd rather use Open Office.

It's all a personal choice.

jcvjcvjcvjcv · #21 Post by **jcvjcvjcvjcv** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:54 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Just thought of something.
Before M$-Office I was a huge fan of WordPerfect.
I used V5.2 (which I still have) for years, even upgraded to 6.0 and 6.1 (which I sold donkeys years ago)
Then M$ somehow interfered and I've used Office ever since.
How come nobody even mentioned WordPerfect?
Currently on offer at Amazon for $47.42 http://www.amazon.com/WordPerfect-Offic ... B007USOX1W
A heck of a lot cheaper than M$!

Not really: $55 for only a MS Word competitor. For $85 you get Office 2010 Home and Student that includes Excel and Powerpoint. Hmm, now I look at it... Office is kinda expensive now if you want to get Outlook.

RealBlackStuff wrote: IMHO Office 2003 was, and still is, by far the best Office version.
To accommodate my customers' docs, I 'got hold' of M$ Office 2010 Pro Plus, but I can't stand their stupid ribbon-culture.
Until I found UbitMenu, which puts the 'old' 2003-menu back in.
Absolutely a MUST if you are using any newer Office version.

You can download a plugin so you can open *.docx in older Office versions.

The UI is indeed way to gluttonous with display real estate. Although some things are made easier for those that do everything with the mouse, it takes up too much space and obfuscates lesser used functions. I think it kinda fits into the dumbing down of everything.

#22 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:08 am

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:
RealBlackStuff wrote:WordPerfect...
Currently on offer at Amazon for $47.42 http://www.amazon.com/WordPerfect-Offic ... B007USOX1W
A heck of a lot cheaper than M$!
Not really: $55 for only a MS Word competitor.

That WordPerfect package includes "competitors" for Word, Excel, Powerpoint and OneNote.
It's also capable of handling M$ files...

Temetka · #23 Post by **Temetka** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:21 am

Might as well chime in.

I've been moving from Windows 7 to Linux. I love Windows 7, but I also really enjoy using Linux.

That being said, OpenOffice blows. Have an Excel doc with VBA? You're screwed. 20 tab OneNote file? Yeah good luck. Hope you didn't like that PowerPoint you put together. I still haven't found an MS Project compatible open source replacement, or an Access open source replacement. So in my Linux install I have a Windows 7 virtual machine with Office 2010 installed. Some things you just can't replace and full office compatibility is one of those things.

That being said, I do love AbiWord. It reminds me of Word 97 which is my absolute favorite version of Word. Nice, neat and clean and fast. AbiWord is also very clean and fast and it hasn't screwed up one .doc file I've thrown at it so long as I saved it in Office 2003 format. Works great and is a in my opinion a shining example of what an open source piece of software should be.

A31 · #24 Post by **A31** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:54 pm

killer wrote:It's an easy choice for me. I use a copy of MS Office 2007 but I won't upgrade it any more. It is so old now that I'd rather use Open Office.

Given the choice I'd rather use Office 2007 than OpenOffice at this point in time. Yes, it may be 7 years old now, but it's still functional and 2010 and 2013 didn't really add anything in particular, so you're not missing out on much at all (though I do love 2010 and 2013).

You've got Office 2007, may as well use it. Support ends in 2017 (same as Vista), but I know people who were still using Office 2000 until recently and support for that ended about 5 years ago...

86turbodsl · #25 Post by **86turbodsl** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:51 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:FYI: I do find your opinions 'remarkable' and remarkably ignore-worthy.
Admitted, I am an older user, but with tons of Mainframe and PC knowledge and experience under my belt (been at it since 1968),
I do know what's good and what's not so good!

Either way, let's not get into our battling stations...

While i'm not as old as RBS, i must agree with him on this point, throwing out the old just because it's not the new fancy is not the way. One of the reasons i moved my family to linux was because i could get them off the MS upgrade treadmill. We focus on the content creation, not the new interface for the sake of a new interface.

What isn't broken - don't fix

precip9 · #26 Post by **precip9** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:35 pm

I'm still using Office 2000, alongside Open Office. Office 2000 crashes less, and it's faster. Both are half-baked compared to even Office 2007, but together, they get what I need done. For example, I frequently create and edit a document in Office 2000, and then open it in Open Office to do a pdf export.

All of my experiments with the Open Office Powerpoint alternative, which I have not performed with the 4.0 release, were wretched.

Because Office 2000 is most certainly vulnerable, I do not open web documents with it. It is fully compatible with Microsoft EMET, which might help a little.

sir_synthsalot · #27 Post by **sir_synthsalot** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:17 pm

You guys need to go out and buy Office 365.

jcvjcvjcvjcv · #28 Post by **jcvjcvjcvjcv** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:46 pm

Why would I....

I installed the trial of Visio 2013... opened it, closed it and uninstalled it. It looked really like a toy interface for 5 year olds.

Software question: MS Office alternatives

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