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Is the forum dying?

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ThinkTwinki
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Is the forum dying?

#1 Post by ThinkTwinki » Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:02 pm

It's gotten slower (both in response time and posts) as of late.

I've found myself waiting something like 10 seconds for a page load.

As well, it seems like replies/new threads only happen every few weeks.


It seems like the cult of the ThinkPad is dying out; Lenovo's gone the way of Modern Corp, keeping costs to the bare minimum, and riding on the goodwill of their past reputation, instead of build quality. Frankly, I don't even touch any Lenovo product that isn't a classic ThinkPad. However, the supply is always going to keep shrinking, as time moves forward. Soon enough, there won't be any functional ThinkPads left. We'll have to cling to all of ours, desperately holding on to what was; dug too deep in our ways, and the knowledge of what "was," not what is -- now.

darn. Computers are getting more powerful; but what's the point when they're not built to perfection? It seems like all that power -- and hype -- is just there to compensate for the lack of longevity and experience. Why build an amazing laptop anymore, when they're a commodity? Even Apple -- Jobs rest in peace -- has shifted closer to being an IBM/MS/GE powerhouse titan of practicality and profit, rather than a provider of something great -- something almost magical.


ThinkPad, don't leave me. I need you. You're the ray of light, in the dark storm that is the consumer PC market. Don't go. Please, don't go.

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#2 Post by devinfriday » Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:28 pm

Pc market has died long ago, when performance gain between generations has reduced to 5% when it's sunny...

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#3 Post by dr_st » Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:12 pm

ThinkTwinki wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:02 pm
I've found myself waiting something like 10 seconds for a page load.

As well, it seems like replies/new threads only happen every few weeks.
I've noticed the slowness the past couple of hours as well, let's hope it's transient.

As to your second point - a quick search brings 59 active topics (where new posts have been made during the past week), so I think your fears are exaggerated.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#4 Post by rkawakami » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:56 pm

If the forum was slower yesterday, it doesn't seem to be that way today (for me). I'm on a Comcast connection rated at 200Mbps down / 5Mbps up. On this hardwired (not WiFi) W520 I usually get about 70-80Mbps down. It's connected directly to the router that's connected to the Arris SB6141 cable modem. Forum page refreshes take at most 3 seconds to be acknowledged and less than that to completely load / refresh the page.

As far as the forum "dying", we continue to get new registrations; about 30 in the last week, with half of them already posting something or activating their account (several of them have been banned for spamming). Yes it's probably not the volume that the Lenovo Forum gets simply because this is a user supported forum and not one run by the manufacturer.
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X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#5 Post by ThinkTwinki » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:12 am

rkawakami wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:56 pm
If the forum was slower yesterday, it doesn't seem to be that way today (for me). I'm on a Comcast connection rated at 200Mbps down / 5Mbps up. On this hardwired (not WiFi) W520 I usually get about 70-80Mbps down. It's connected directly to the router that's connected to the Arris SB6141 cable modem. Forum page refreshes take at most 3 seconds to be acknowledged and less than that to completely load / refresh the page.

As far as the forum "dying", we continue to get new registrations; about 30 in the last week, with half of them already posting something or activating their account (several of them have been banned for spamming). Yes it's probably not the volume that the Lenovo Forum gets simply because this is a user supported forum and not one run by the manufacturer.
Slow speeds:

I see now; timing it, it is at most 3 seconds for a response/load. Perhaps I've been spoiled by instant-loading pages.

Posts/logins I'm getting atleast 5.

The real issue looks to have resolved itself; the other two nights had intermittent close-but-never timeouts.


Forum dying:

Very true; hyperbole on my part.

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#6 Post by unix_joe » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:13 am

The original userbase of this forum has lost enthusiasm for modern ThinkPads.

Lenovo hasn’t put out anything remotely interesting, except for the first couple years of P series, in nearly a decade.

If the current ThinkPad offerings were a new line of laptops with no history behind the name, it wouldn’t have nearly the momentum or gravity that warrants the enthusiasm seen on /r/thinkpads. Even then, those people are there out of convenience.

There’s still plenty of discussion that happens here, and I drop by daily to read if not participate. But everything that could be figured out about say, a Flexview Frankenpad was figured out a decade ago, and there’s no path forward for similar hacking on newer models.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#7 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:20 pm

jdk wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:13 am
The original userbase of this forum has lost enthusiasm for modern ThinkPads.
This. Times a zillion

There’s still plenty of discussion that happens here, and I drop by daily to read if not participate. But everything that could be figured out about say, a Flexview Frankenpad was figured out a decade ago, and there’s no path forward for similar hacking on newer models.
Very well put. My hat's off to you. Seriously.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


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Re: Is the forum dying?

#8 Post by rkawakami » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:04 pm

jdk wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:13 am
There’s still plenty of discussion that happens here, and I drop by daily to read if not participate. But everything that could be figured out about say, a Flexview Frankenpad was figured out a decade ago, and there’s no path forward for similar hacking on newer models.
Which I guess explains why I stopped at the T420, T520 and W520 models mentioned below...
|
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V
Ray Kawakami
X22 X24 X31 X41 X41T X60 X60s X61 X61s X200 X200s X300 X301 Z60m Z61t Z61p 560 560Z 600 600E 600X T21 T22 T23 T41 T60p T410 T420 T520 W500 W520 R50 A21p A22p A31 A31p
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#9 Post by rkawakami » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:01 pm

Another reason why I stopped at the xx20 models was the keyboard switch.

Also, as respect to the slow response reported by OP: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=131807
Ray Kawakami
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#10 Post by theterminator93 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:30 pm

Yeah, there's nothing exciting about new ThinkPads anymore. Aside from T480/T25 FrankenPadding - which is now about 3 years old - there isn't much that's new to talk about, really...
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#11 Post by 600X » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:00 pm

Same here, last good ThinkPad was the P50 and that was 6 years ago now. Even that came after years of a dry spell. There were times like the P50 where it seemed like things might get better but after all these years and false hopes, the well is dry. It's over now. But it was a good run.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#12 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:49 am

Even 51nb hasn't gone any further than X200 (X210/X2100) and X230 (X330).
After the short-lived T50 and T70, it looks like T/W/P Series are of no interest to them at all now.

I have also sold most of my 40+ ThinkPad collection and their parts.
Only a handful left.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#13 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:06 am

Once I move into the retirement stage of my life I plan on picking up a couple of older ThinkPads and creating a small display corner in the living room of my apartment overseas. Transnote and 770Z would probably be at the top of the list, maybe a couple more...but that's just a random thought from an idle mind... :D ...we'll see if I actually end up doing it.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

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One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#14 Post by atagunov » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:20 am

Somebody - not necessarily me - will eventually make it practical to put modern single board computers into classic Thinkpad bodies.
Until then I think it's our responsibility as a community to preserve enough of them :)

8Gb Raspberi PI 4 has probably already levelled up with the best of T61 if benchmarks are to be trusted.
Sadly screens will be an issue :( Otherwise those bodies could well have lived to be over 100 years old and remain on active service.

In my own view at least X200/X201, T60/R60, X220, T420, T520 bodies are worthy.
Okay possibly those models in between T60 and T420 too - but I find them less attractive

Which other bodies would you expect to still be used in year 2121?
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#15 Post by 600X » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:24 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:06 am
Once I move into the retirement stage of my life I plan on picking up a couple of older ThinkPads and creating a small display corner in the living room of my apartment overseas. Transnote and 770Z would probably be at the top of the list, maybe a couple more...but that's just a random thought from an idle mind... :D ...we'll see if I actually end up doing it.
Better hurry up, as a collector myself I've kept an eye on the market and let's just say the prime time for picking up machines is long gone...
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#16 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:59 am

600X wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:24 am

Better hurry up, as a collector myself I've kept an eye on the market and let's just say the prime time for picking up machines is long gone...
Oh I know. And I won't be terribly upset if nothing becomes of my idea.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#17 Post by TonyJZX » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:52 am

People can only be enthusiastic about something that's worth being enthusiastic about.

To me Lenovo has always been in a nose ward dive in the past decade.

The last generation I truly loved (yes loved) is the T420/520/X220 etc. - the classics. They have a direct lineage from what I would call genesis which is the T60/T61. I know this is a narrow window and I do get why people love the 701c and I worked with the T20-T43 generation and people would call me ancient.

I dont care about nothing after the T420 and I only have experience recently with the Ryzen e485/495/e14 whatever which I like but its much less than the T420 era and its more a testament to how good AMD is rather than what Lenovo is.

Further I think its kind of funny is that in truth, Lenovo is an subsidiary of the CCP, something everyone rightly hates so why would you even buy their crap now???

I've been in and out of the SME and Enterprise information tech world and I too see Lenovo losing mindshare due to the CCP thing. Lenovo used to be used by our military here. Now they are HP or Dell.

I myself have moved to HP Z series workstations and for laptops I'm getting really good mileage out of low end crap like 10th 11th gen Intel i3/i5 Acers and that almost 'disposable' laptop.

Unless Lenovo do something absolutely amazing with the Ryzen 4000 series then there's no need to even look that way.

Also realise the world is moving out of Win10 as staid etc. The hotness seems be this M1 Apple crap but that also seems to be a great way to funnel money to Tim Apple and Foxconn and the CCP so F that.

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#18 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:11 am

Here's an interesting comparison of the "competition": M1 MacBook Pro vs. Razer Book 13.
Judging by their looks, both seem to have a terrible keyboard.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#19 Post by atagunov » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:22 am

BTW saving answers feels a bit slow now.. I would have answered in "slowness" topic but there is no "post" button there..
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#20 Post by TonyJZX » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:58 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:11 am
Here's an interesting comparison of the "competition": M1 MacBook Pro vs. Razer Book 13.
Judging by their looks, both seem to have a terrible keyboard.
Keyboards only matter to content creators.

With the vast majority of users being content consumers, they dont even need a keyboard.

I must have particularly painful preferences as I have only been able to compose lengthy writing sessions behind a T420 age classic keyboard.

I find most modern chiclet apple keyboards to be absymal but then I'm not banging out large emails any more.

Even when I had to submit 1,000 - 2,500 word papers for university I would just use an external 101 kbd and a monitor anyway.

And this is why this place is "dying"... people dont care about that classic age of Thinkpads any more let alone modern ones because they're consumers, not creators.

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#21 Post by dr_st » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:22 pm

TonyJZX wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:58 am
Keyboards only matter to content creators.

With the vast majority of users being content consumers, they dont even need a keyboard.
You got that right.
TonyJZX wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:58 am
I must have particularly painful preferences as I have only been able to compose lengthy writing sessions behind a T420 age classic keyboard.
Same here (well, short of a good desktop keyboard).
TonyJZX wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:58 am
And this is why this place is "dying"... people dont care about that classic age of Thinkpads any more let alone modern ones because they're consumers, not creators.
Although the forum is far from "dying" as I see, it definitely doesn't get as much traffic as it used to, because the newer generation that modern Thinkpads appeal to prefers communication formats other than traditional message boards such as this one.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#22 Post by atagunov » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:05 pm

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:22 pm
...because the newer generation that modern Thinkpads appeal to prefers communication formats other than traditional message boards such as this one.
Hmm.. but what is it that they prefer? Reddit? I reckon Reddit isn't exactly new either.. But what else? Commenting under youtube videos?
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#23 Post by Ibthink » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:31 pm

Reddit definitely has a much younger user-base than this forum or the German ThinkPad forum.

Reddit isn't exactly new, yes, but it is still a more modern format than classic message boards. Personally, I would describe Reddit as a mix between a classic forum and a social media site.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#24 Post by atagunov » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:42 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:31 pm
Personally, I would describe Reddit as a mix between a classic forum and a social media site.
It's pathetic though that you can't search your messages on Reddit and generally its searching capabilities are.. well lacking.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#25 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:26 am

I consider Reddit an abominable, badly (if at all) moderated, unorganised collection of mostly useless, numerously repeated questions, interspersed and spoiled by stupid kiddies, who have nothing better to do than post stupid pictures (called Stinkstagrams) of their laptops with a stupid cat or dog, or a stupid pencil, or whatever is the current stupid "flavour of the day".
If you're lucky, about 1 in 50 subject-titles might be interesting enough to click on and see what's inside.

And Facebook isn't that far off from the above either... YMMV.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#26 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:38 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:26 am
I consider Reddit an abominable, badly (if at all) moderated, unorganised collection of mostly useless, numerously repeated questions, interspersed and spoiled by stupid kiddies, who have nothing better to do than post stupid pictures (called Stinkstagrams) of their laptops with a stupid cat or dog, or a stupid pencil, or whatever is the current stupid "flavour of the day".
If you're lucky, about 1 in 50 subject-titles might be interesting enough to click on and see what's inside.
Now tell us what you really think... :mrgreen:

All jokes aside, I always found reddit next to impossible to navigate through to my liking. It's been years since my last attempt to read anything over there and I can't see any turn of events that I would make me give it another shot.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#27 Post by TonyJZX » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:23 pm

reddit is owned by tencent so why the hell would you even bother jesus christ.... do you own umm.. research om what tencent is??

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Re: Is the forum dying?

#28 Post by Ibthink » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:37 pm

Reddit is not owned by Tecent. Tecent holds a small share. The actual majority owner is Conde Nast.
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#29 Post by zoltan87 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm

I feel a lot more normal now reading other people's experiences with reddit. I thought I was the only person on this planet, who just didn't get it. I have only been forced to use it a couple of times for a vintage NEC 386SX laptop repair project, hence why I even bothered registering there, and unfortunately it was pointless anyway, as my problem was too specific with a rare laptop model, so there really wasn't much that they could have suggested to me. But every time I needed to visit the site, I felt like I descended into an unorganised hell, with no way to properly search for content. It actually made me think that maybe that's how my grandparents feel like, when they need to use the internet occasionally. Half of the time I had no idea where to click, or why was I forwarded to a different thread, when I clicked on certain things. The whole interface is just a cluttered mess.

Funny thing is, before registering here a few years back, even though I had never really been active on any other forums apart from a few posts here and there, I actually remember thinking "wow this forum has so much good information about all things Thinkpad, it's just a little barebones". After a couple of days though I realised, that for my needs this is as close to a perfect forum design as it gets. I absolutely love that there are no giant pictures up everywhere, flash videos popping in and out, and a search function that actually works.

But I am not surprised that the volume of traffic is slowly decreasing here, the younger generation simply has different priorities and ways of posting/reading things. Actually it works out perfect this way, the simple, no bells and whistles approach of this forum is a perfect deterrent to keep those individuals away. I think everyone is happier this way (I certainly am).
Thinkpad T60, 15" Flexview, with mods (Xiphmont's LED mod, T500 heatsink, cpu undervolt, reinforced frame)
Thinkpad T601, 15" Flexview, with mods (Xiphmont's LED mod, T500 heatsink, cpu undervolt, reinforced frame)
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Re: Is the forum dying?

#30 Post by dr_st » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:26 pm

zoltan87 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm
But every time I needed to visit the site, I felt like I descended into an unorganised hell, with no way to properly search for content.
I don't recall I ever searched anything on Reddit at all. It must be as bad as you say. The only way I get to Reddit is by searching for specific words in a search engine. My bounce rate at Reddit is pretty close to 1.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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