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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:34 pm 
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This was a reply to another post, but I feel this is pertinent to go in its own topic.

I was asked...

Out of curiosity, where do you buy a T40 for $1049? Of course, adding a HDD, DVD/CD-ROM ultrabay and memory still represents maybe $400 if you are prudent... and don't go overboard.

Well I was going to recommend a seller on eBay to you but two things:

1.) They don't have any presently
2.) I am no longer as enamoured with them

Point 2. Why? After all my T40, with SXGA and all the rest is on its way, isn't it? brand new from IBM, sealed, 3 years IBM warranty... It's on it's way isn't it? Is it?

Yes it is.

Except I found out that they SOLD THE T40 THAT I FUC&ING PURCHASED before I had chance to pay for it. Excuse my language and being lady like and all that but I am in a sour mood. Their excuse is I did not pay in 3 days (72 hours). let's look at this:

-Thursday Morning, 11am GMT (5am in NYC) - Bought T40 - 2373JU5 (iirc)
- Opening hours for PM Distributors Inc., 10am. Or 4pm GMT.
- At work till 7pm GMT, 1pm NYC
- Phoned to ask if they would ship to a US address if I got my friend to pay via Paypal or I wire the money. Thats fine. They say. I need to verify my friend has a verified paypal address. Thats fine, let us know when you know.
- Friday; no news from friend yet.
- Saturday - weekend: PM Distrib' Inc. is closed, my friend does not have a verified paypal account, send an email to get bank details to wire the money.
- Sunday, closed.
- Monday, closed - Memorial Day in US - Bank Holiday in UK
- Tuesday, around 5pm GMT (11am NYC) still no email back. Phone them. "Sending them right now".
- Tuesday, around 9pm GMT (3pm NYC) still no email. Phone "I'm an idiot, sorry, I will send them". Too late to pay today now...
- Tuesday 11pm GMT : receive email
- Wednesday pay.

Through no fault of my own they sold the laptop I HAD PURCHASED.

So what have I got in return, well it's confusing to say the least.

I had purchased a 2373-JU5; thats 40GB Hard Disk at 5400RPM, 32MB ATI Radeon 9000, 1400x1050 SXGA, 512MB, Giga-ethernet, CDRW/DVD Combo, sealed IBM box - brand new, 3 years IBM warranty, Win XP Home and the usual T40 stuff. Pentium-m 1.5GHZ

I now have a 2374-XXG on the way: 30GB Hard disk at 5400rpm, 32MB ATI Radeon 7500, 1024x768 XGA, 1GB RAM, 10/100 Ethernet, CDRW/DVD Combo, refurb unit, 3 years Mack International warranty, Win 2000 Pro and usual T40 stuff. Pentium-m 1.5GHZ.

Am I being an *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** by feeling *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** OFF that this is not up to what I want? They CLAIM it has a 40GB Hard disk but according to IBM, thats *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** "Get that little twee lady off the phone, we can push her over easy cos she's a girlie". OH GET F.....D *eyes glaring*! Either that or they are claiming the Ju5 had a 30GB Disk, no it did not the eBay auction SAID 40GB, IBM says 40GB too.

In my eyes, an extra 512MEG of ram (making 1GB) does not make up for the lack of SXGA now, or 10GB less hard disk space, and again Windows 2000, I want XP!

May as well have stuck with my *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** T23 for all this. The whole POINT was to have an SXGA screen....

*****Expletives removed by Moderator***** I wish my Kickboxing was tonight...

I am just very *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** off. I'm sorry for my language, but I need to get this venom out of me.

So this leads to pertinent questions:

1.) Please tell me Mack aren't cowboys when it comes to warranty, are they idiots who will give me the run around, I will be in the UK with the T40 from August onwards.

2.) Would you be somewhat disgruntled (there we go Vics, you can put it nicely without the F word...) if your purchase mainly based on the need for SXGA in Photoshop was no longer present and got XGA instead?

I just think I am in the right here for once, that I have been sold something that IS NOT AS ADVERTISED. I have tried being calm to them on the phone (yeah from the UK to New York) but all I get is a tone of voice that sounds angry when they are saying "1 second please..". Guess that you dear US citizens are not too well acquainted with the dry whit my Brit voice often saddles along...

I shall soon find out when I am in Chicago thats for sure.

*punches wall*

Vicky xXx :evil:
(Something of a tough one...)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:54 pm 
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First of all, I'm sorry. I know it doesn't help much in this case.

The refurb T40 has 30GB HD. Click! I have the same display and have no problem with it, however I don't use PhotoShop, so I understand your feelings. What about attaching an external 17" CRT? You can work on the two monitor at the same time. As for the Win 2k. I'm sure we can get you a Recovery CD with XP.

BTW, I might have missed something, but have you ordered the unit directly from IBM? Can you change the order?

Edit:
Okay, I missed it. You got it from Ebay.

Regards,
G-Man


Last edited by G-Man on Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:57 pm 
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What's the ebay item number? We'll take a look for you.

If you paid for JU5, there's no excuse for shipping you a XXG. Period.

Ebay policy for payments is 7 days.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:00 pm 
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Hiya,

So I was right, 30GB. I presume they were trying to fob me off the 2373JU5 had 30GB, it does NOT!

XGA is fine for daily use, but I was rather looking forward to more space for webpages, and also photoshop.

Sure I could get a 17" CRT but it's all money at the end of the day and presently a severe lack of room.

Windows 2000 is fine really, I just cling on to Cleartype something chronic - it's the single most reason for me to use XP. (not kidding you).
As I say I have no resolute issues with XGA on a 14.1" TFT, after all I have been using this size of screen since the days of having a T21 (and as you probably know now a T23).

*sighs*

Vicky

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:04 pm 
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csv96 wrote:
What's the ebay item number? We'll take a look for you.

If you paid for JU5, there's no excuse for shipping you a XXG. Period.

Ebay policy for payments is 7 days.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1085646325

I thought as much, I have been using eBay since 2000. (104 feedback) That is what I was meant to be getting.

*shrugs*

I suppose XGA won't be that bad and there were times when I was thinking 1GB of RAM would be nice (for smooth multitasking), believe me you when your editing a 6000x6000 picture, SXGA would be appreciated for better zoom resolution, and the 1GB so that I can switch to IE, Windows Explorer, mIRC, Thunderbird, Frontpage etc. all fluidly without the swap file being ravaged.

And 40gb would have been perfect, I have a 20gb disk in this T23 and 2GB left of disk space, so double the storage space would have been future proofing for a couple of years, 30gb just screams to me that in a year or less I'll want more space.

Vicky

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:07 pm 
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*kicks feet in the air*

They just left feedback, I'm an asset to ebay...

Oh yeah.

If I got my hands on them the only thing involving *****Expletives removed by Moderator*****(et) would be me giving them a *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** good whipping...

(I'm not joking!)

Vicky xxx

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:13 pm 
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I feel your pain. If they've already left good feedback, feel free to go off on them and give them a bad rating - if they sold your machine a mere three days after you won the auction, they deserve it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:19 pm 
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When you spoke to them on the phone, did they tell you they were going to give you a different unit? If I were you, I would demand they give me back $400 (to compensate for the lack of SXGA+) or they send me the correct unit. There's really no excuse for sending a buyer a different (not to mention, much lower) model. You have a right to file a buyer complaint with PayPal. In this situation, if you aren't getting anywhere with their customer service, I would file a buyer complaint and claim non-delivery since they still have not delivered the JU5 unit (the one you won and paid for).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:23 pm 
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Txiasaeia wrote:
I feel your pain. If they've already left good feedback, feel free to go off on them and give them a bad rating - if they sold your machine a mere three days after you won the auction, they deserve it.


Oh I shall indeed and it will be another 29 days before I can inspect the machine myself first hand. I'm sure it's fine, but the biggest thing that gets me is I paid for a brand new machine, not a refurb.

Vicky

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:28 pm 
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I would not pay for the machine, and I would not accept delivery.

You paid for a vastly superior model - and that's what you should get.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:29 pm 
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csv96 wrote:
When you spoke to them on the phone, did they tell you they were going to give you a different unit? If I were you, I would demand they give me back $400 (to compensate for the lack of SXGA+) or they send me the correct unit. There's really no excuse for sending a buyer a different (not to mention, much lower) model. You have a right to file a buyer complaint with PayPal. In this situation, if you aren't getting anywhere with their customer service, I would file a buyer complaint and claim non-delivery since they still have not delivered the JU5 unit (the one you won and paid for).


When I phoned it basically went "Oh there's an issue, please hold". Then they said they had sold the unit I had purchased myself. I expect the reason was someone came along and OFFERED MORE MONEY. Greed.

Not getting anywhere with their customer service (they are pleasant enough but have a habit of interrupting me). When I asked if they were likely to get more T40s, same spec with SXGA as I had purchased, they said it was unlikely anything will be sourced, and if they did it would be 3 weeks+. No guarantee that would come off, and after all I have paid them $1549 + shipping and I don't like the thought of my money in someone's account and not knowing if I will get the goods. So it seems the XXG has been sent.

I can't file a complaint with PayPal since I paid via wire transfer, basically I am in the UK and will be in Chicago for a month and a half in just under a month, I shall collect the T40 while in the states. However I shall write to eBay after this and see what they have to say.

I was hoping for a refund of sorts because 512MB extra SO-DIMM stick (its unlikely it's a 1GB stick in there) does not make up ($ wise) for the lack of:

- XGA now vs. SXGA as purchased
- 30gb now vs. 40gb hard disk as purchased
- 10/100 ethernet vs. 1Gbit ethernet as purchased.

To me thats more than the a 512mb stick costs!!!

That and add insult to injury I now have a refurb unit instead of a brand new unit. I WANTED A NEW ONE. *cries* I've always owned second hand units and wanted some brand spanking new T40, not this refurb now on its way to Illinois.

:(

Vicky

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:35 pm 
Personaly if I were you there would be no question as to what i would do.
There would be no way I would accept a refurb unit when I won and paid for new unit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:36 pm 
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K. Eng wrote:
I would not pay for the machine, and I would not accept delivery.

You paid for a vastly superior model - and that's what you should get.


Precisely, I need to get in touch with my friend Lorre. She is out early till late in the day so its likely FedEx (well its supposed to be shipped by them, but hey, I bet it arrives via USPS) will not be able to delivery, buying me time to get a reply from eBay and to tell her not to accept the delivery if it comes to it.

If this is what I wanted (XGA, 30gb and 1GB RAM) I'd not paid $1549 as I did, I paid $1549 for a brand new machine unopened. For a refurb unit of this spec, I may have warranted $1250 or so.

You know I *&^%$%#!ing hate it when (for the record I am not a.) a rampant feminist b.) a man hater) men on customer services think they can push a woman over because they are easier to persuade and shouldn't worry their silly child bearing geared heads (ok so maybe I am being a bit tongue in cheek there) since they can't possibly know about computers.

No course I &^$^#!*&ing don't. NOT! (Says she who wrote a whole DbMS for her company taking 5 months WHILST doing an undergraduate degree, working as deputy manager for said workplace AND a playwork/childcare course, who writes her website with PHP and mySQL, has a history in C programming and loads more.)

I know what I am on about and they were trying to convince me that XGA was OK for what I need. They ARE right XGA is OK but I wanted SXGA for greater flexibility in photoshop and for a more pleasant web browsing experience.

Vicky[/b]

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:37 pm 
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eriqesque wrote:
Personaly if I were you there would be no question as to what i would do.
There would be no way I would accept a refurb unit when I won and paid for new unit.


Precisely.

Thanks guys for some agreement on this, as it shows I am not being an *****Expletives removed by Moderator*****, and secondly, I can't be on just yet ;) and acting irrationally.

Vicky

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:45 pm 
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Since you paid via wire transfer, I don't know what you can do. Did you do it through your bank? They *might* be able to do something, depending on how much they care about their customers.

This situation sucks; my blood boils just thinking about it. If something like this happened to me I'd be spitting nails. But that's not helpful - what can you do *now*? What recourses do you have? I think that you should definitely talk to eBay and tell them that you were forced to accept an inferior machine after winning and paying for the better one. I can't see any other options here. eBay has dispute services available; this might cost you $20 or so (or is it a percentage of the total?), but it's worth it.

Good luck on this! Keep us updated on what's going on!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:55 pm 
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This is what I sent to ebay:

Hiya,

I recently purchased the item as described.

I have been instructed after phoning the seller myself (I had no received ANY email to this effect, in fact email contact from the seller to me has been poor, though phone contact was good) that the item I purchased was actually sold after I made the purchase.

Their terms are payment in 3 days. I won the auction on 27/5/04 (Thats the Thursday the week before I paid on the Wednesday the following week). eBays are 7 days as I understand. Further to this:

- Phone contact to see if friend with verified paypal address can pay as I am in the UK and that is no good for a US shipping address (I am staying with a friend, that is a US address, Chicago, Il) - I was told to find out and let them know. I said if not I would wire the money from my UK current account to their bank account. This was fine according to PM Distributors Inc.

- Friday evening, find out my friend's PayPal is not verified and too late to call PM Distrib Inc. (6 hour time zone difference)

- Sent email on Saturday for bank details - but they are closed, its the weekend and my bank is closed.

- Sunday as above.

- Monday (may 31st) Memorial Day in US, Bank Holiday here, PM still closed as expected.

- Tuesday. PM Open. No email reply. Phone them, should be 5 mins and they will send them. Some 4 hours later well after bank closing time in UK, still no email. Phone them "Wil lsend it straight away". They did.

- Wednesday 2nd June. Paid the total amount required.

So now it's Monday 7th June. I phoned them to see if they got the payment OK, they said they did (see again I have to prompt them, I asked them to email me when it was received) but there was 'an issue'.

It turns out they sold the T40 I purchased to someone else.

In return being shipped out is something quite different from what I paid for, it's a T40. But these are the differences:

One I actually purchased and should of got but was sold:
- Type 2373-JU5
- 512MB RAM
- 40GB Hard Disk
- SXGA Screen (1400x1050)
- 1GB Ethernet
- BRAND NEW UNOPENED
- 3 YEAR IBM WARRANTY
- WINDOWS XP HOME
(See the auction listing - it ratifies this)

They have sent me:

- 2374-XXG (AS PER IBM's SPECS)
- 1GB RAM (supposedly their token for this lesser unit)
- 10/100MBit Ethernet
- 30GB HARD DISK
- XGA DISPLAY (1024x768)
- ***REFURBISHED UNIT!!***
- 3 YEAR MACK WARRANTY
- WINDOWS 2000

As you can imagine I am not pleased in receiving a much lesser spec, especially as I paid for a brand new item not a refurbished unit.

Phone contact has resulted in me being talked over, and also them trying to fob me off the original auction was for a 30GB Hard disk, it's not according to IBM's specs and their actual eBay auction listing, it's 40GB.

Apparently the item has been sent and I am at a loss where to go, I feel really quite ripped off. An extra 512Meg ram stick does not make up for the fact this unit is second hand, smaller hard disk, smaller screen size, slower ethernet and different warranty scheme.

You help will be eternally appreciated.

many thanks for your time.

Miss Victoria J K Lamburn
(lilslaptops: 105 feedback)


Just wait and see now...

Vicky
(The student who can ill afford to be ripped off)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:00 pm 
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I shall see what eBay says first, then from that contact my bank and see what they say, as I see it, little they can do. HSBC have been helpful to me in the past but well, I think they can't do much about it. After all they did their job, they're not responsible for the recipients less than respectful behaviour.

*****Expletives removed by Moderator***** I'm annoyed.

Vicky

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:09 pm 
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Vicky Luv,

Call the seller back and cancel the order. Then FAX them a cancellation of the order followed by a registered letter cancelling the order. Tell them you want ALL of your money returned, including shipping, with NO restocking fee.

CC: The NYC Dept. of Consumer Affairs. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/home.html and http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/html/resolve.html

Reason? BAIT AND SWITCH!!!

As to their "gift" of an additional .5GB of RAM, you can buy that anyday from Crucial for $109.99!

Their "three days for payment" is not enforceable and is not in keeping with their own language in their listing, one portion of which only requires that you make payment arrangements within three days.

Regards,

James

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:16 pm 
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JHEM wrote:
Vicky Luv,

Call the seller back and cancel the order. Then FAX them a cancellation of the order followed by a registered letter cancelling the order. Tell them you want ALL of your money returned, including shipping, with NO restocking fee.



I have tried, apparently the item has been shipped... It's hard to deal with them, they spoke to me in an angered tone (maybe you folks in the US speak in a different tone, it just sounded angry), and spoke over me and contradicted themselves. I do want my money back or the item I purchased.

JHEM wrote:


I shall read...

JHEM wrote:
Reason? BAIT AND SWITCH!!!

As to their "gift" of an additional .5GB of RAM, you can buy that anyday from Crucial for $109.99!


Exactly and $109 does not make up the difference in cost for no SXGA, no gigabit ethernet, no radeon 9000, and NOT brand new. Oh and 10gb less hard disk space.

JHEM wrote:
Their "three days for payment" is not enforceable and is not in keeping with their own language in their listing, one portion of which only requires that you make payment arrangements within three days.


Exactly and that is just what I did, I phoned them the evening I got home from work when they were open (i leave for work at 2.30PM GMT, thats half 8 in NYC, they open at 10), and they slowed the process of sending me their wire details.

It's quite obvious why I am ****ed off.

Vicky

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:29 pm 
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I wouldn't accept that notebook.

Not to enrage you further, but paying with Paypal via credit card would have made things easier. Dispute the charge with MasterCard (they've been nice to me), PayPal loses the money, and PayPal then takes the money back from the seller, either right from their credit card or right out of their bank account. (Yes, PayPal is evil for that system as well, since fraudulent buyers can exist.)

Anyway, I would:
1) put dealing with ebay for a resolution on the back burner :twisted:
2) ASAP, work with the bank to get your money back, call it fraud because that's what it is
3) take delivery of the laptop, regardless of whether you get your money back, and don't open it.

My reasons are
1) ebay doesn't care and they can't do anything about the money anyway
2) you get your money back
3) You could reject delivery of the shipment. The laptop ends back at the seller, and judging from what they've done there's no guarantee they'd easily refund you the money. If that's the case, you end up without your money or a laptop. If your bank ends up refunding the money and you get the laptop, then you can screw around with the seller a bit. But if things work out, the seller will refund your money and you pay for shipping back to them. Don't open it because you've already said you don't want it, and at best it's fair that the seller receive the item back unopened. Now if they send you a box of rocks, that's another problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:38 pm 
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>Their "three days for payment" is not enforceable
>

How come? (I don't disagree; I'm just curious.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:41 pm 
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Letter of complaint to the seller, just emailed:

Hello,

I notice you have left me positive feedback.

However I am not so pleased with my purchase.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1085646325

I paid $1549 for that item, that meant SXGA Display, 512MB, 40gig Hard Disk, 1gb Ethernet, *BRAND NEW*, IBM 3 year warranty, and Windows XP Home.

Your terms defined

- "Arrange payment *method* within 3 days"

I did, I phoned the evening I won the auction, as I am in the UK and at work when you first open, this was done as soon as I got in.

The phone representative said it was OK to verify my friend who I am saying with in Chicago, if she had a verfied paypal address. It conspired she did not, I found this out on the Friday evening after you had closed. However I knew that you said paying via wire transfer was OK, but did not have the details.

I asked for these on the 2nd of June 2004. Saturday. You were closed, which is fine, as was my bank. Sunday, closed, as expected. Monday was Memorial Day and Bank Holiday as such you were closed as advised and this is appreciable. Does this then mean I was outside of making payment in 3 days, but then your terms also state arrange payment method in 3 days. Contradiction.

Tuesday, you are open. No email. Again I prompt by phone, they will be sent in 5 minutes. I was told. 5 hours later, I receive the email after another phone call to prompt you. That was 9pm GMT, way past bank closing times. I paid immediately on Wednesday, the absolute soonest I could. I did everything to stay in touch including costly phone calls when emails were not responded to in a timely fashion.

And now I have been penalised for this.

EBay's terms are 7 days for payment. I paid within 6.

Also I am ratified by:

The NYC Dept. of Consumer Affairs.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/home.html and http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca/html/resolve.html

I then phoned today, to see if the payment had made it, again my email asking for verification that the payment was received was not replied to, I had to prompt again, and only then was I alerted there was an issue, PM Distributors Inc. had sold the t40 that I had *legally* purchased and paid for. After all the calls I made to make sure I stayed in touch. This really does hurt.

Instead of as the auction stated I have now been sent without much choice in the matter after being very confused on the phone with an advisor who sounded angered, that the following was sent to the shipping address.

THE DIFFERENCES (the one I purchased, the specs are ratified by your auction AND IBM as is the spec for the one mailed out)

- One I purchased One being shipped out
- 2373-JU5 2374-XXG
- 512MB RAM 1GB RAM (the token effort)
- SXGA Screen XGA Screen
- 40GB Hard Disk 30GB Hard Disk
- 1GB Ethernet 10/100 Ethernet
- ATI Radeon 9000 ATI Radeon 7500
- Windows XP Home Windows 2000
- BRAND NEW IBM UNIT REFURBISHED (a joke, I paid for brand new)
- 3 YEARS IBM WARRANTY 3 YEAR MACK WARRANTY

It's bad enough the 1gb being included as a token gesture supposedly to make it alright but one can purchase a 512MB module from Crucial Memory for $109, does that compensate for a refurbished, smaller screen, slower graphics chip, smaller hard disk, slower ethernet and older OS being sent - it most certainly does not.

I was talked over on the phone, could not ask questions properly, and also was tried to be convinced the one I bought had a 30GB Hard Disk, IBM's spec and your own auction listing says 40GB.

$109 the cost to make the T40 I should have got to 1GB does not compensate for lack of the above components, I have been shipped an inferior product, for the same price because you sold the t40 I had legally purchased, without due attention to the reasons I had not paid sooner (Did you expect me to pay over the weekend when everything was closed, when I didn't have bank details, I certainly could not pay on Monday, Memorial Day and Tuesday - well if you had replied to the email without prompting twice, and on time, the money would have been paid on Tuesday not Wednesday.)

This is an inexcusable state of affairs.

I demand the following:

- A T40 to the specifcation I purchased *OR*
- Full refund including shipping fee ($1584.00) and NO restocking charge
- A full apology

I do NOT want:

- an IBM T40 2374-XXG

I expect a prompt reply to this serious matter with immediate effect.

I do hope this will aid you in your understanding of the matter as I have got no where on the phone. I am disappointed. I wish to resolve this matter before taking it further with eBay and the required services to get the item I rightfully and legally paid for.

Telephone: +44-xxxx-xxxxxx
Email: This address.

Yours Faithfully,
Miss Victoria Lamburn.

This email has been carbon copied to verify it has indeed been sent.

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Last edited by lilserenity on Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:43 pm 
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taphil wrote:
I wouldn't accept that notebook.

Not to enrage you further, but paying with Paypal via credit card would have made things easier. Dispute the charge with MasterCard (they've been nice to me), PayPal loses the money, and PayPal then takes the money back from the seller, either right from their credit card or right out of their bank account. (Yes, PayPal is evil for that system as well, since fraudulent buyers can exist.)


Of course, the reason for not paying via paypal:

- One I am in the UK with a UK Verified PayPal account
- I am off to Chicago in 29 days for a month and a half, so I am having it shipped to my friend I am staying with, collect it then
- Friend could not use her paypal account, not verified
- So I got the bank details ASAP and paid ASAP. As my email explains.

I'll see if I get time to get to my bank tomorrow and talk to them about it.

Vicky

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:45 pm 
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nonny wrote:
>Their "three days for payment" is not enforceable
>

How come? (I don't disagree; I'm just curious.)


One: eBay's requirement is 7 days for actual payment
Two: They also state in their T&Cs (the seller) a method of payment is required in 3 days.
Three: I phoned from the UK to explain what I was going to do (to see if my friend's paypal was verified, it was not, so I said I would do a wire transfer).

And I did it ASAP. See the email I sent (the text in dark red), that explains the events between Thursday 27th May (day I won the T40) and June 2nd (when I paid). (6 days, not bad for a weekend and a memorial day in between all that and crap response to emails requiring MY PROMPTING on the phone)...

Vicky

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:28 pm 
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Location: Toronto, eh? Great White North
Victoria, sorry to hear about your eBay experience. Some general comments to add to those already expressed.

1. Cleartype. Yes, it's worth installing XP just for this feature. That's the only reason I upgraded my A21p to XP.

2. Many US vendors will only accept US credit cards and ship only to the same address that the credit card statement is sent. The reason for this is that there are crooks who use fraudulent credit cards to make purchases using a drop-off address.

3. Before you persue the "bait and switch" claim via NY state attorney general (a great idea BTW) I'd first send the vendor a draft copy of the letter you intend to send to the AG's office. Tell the vendor how disappointed you are that it's come to this and that you're giving them 48 hours to reconsider their position. I suspect that the last thing they want is to deal with an inquiry from the AG's office.

4. Draft a letter to IBM HQ in the US (*) Tell IBM that you've been a satisfied IBM customer for several years and that you relied on the vendor's claim "IBM Authorized Dealer & Service" and use of the IBM Business Partner logo to order from them. Tell IBM that this vendor's shoddy business practices reflect as poorly on IBM as they do on the vendor. Ask IBM to help you resolve this matter to everyone's satisfaction. (IBM takes the (ab)use of their name and logo very seriously, especially when it's done by third parties like Business Partners.) If the vendor doesn't respond to 3. within 48 hours, send both the letter to the AG and the letter to IBM (with cc's to each other.)

5. In all of your dealings, conversations and correspondence, stay calm, civil and polite. You want to ensure that any third party (e.g. the AG or IBM) sees you as the reasonable party in this dispute.

Hopefully, it won't come to 3. and 4., but if it should, I'm 99% sure that you'll get satisfaction.

(*) You can reach the office of IBM's CEO and Chairman, Sam Palmisano, online here: https://www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/email-sjp.pl That will get the ball rolling, but should you need it, IBM's HQ snail mail address is:

IBM Corporation
1133 Westchester Avenue
White Plains, New York 10604
United States

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 Post subject: Thumbs down on eBay
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:40 pm 
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eBay (and PayPal) are tools for scam artists!

Take a look at the forums at fatwallet.com if you doubt this. As someone on fatwallet recently pointed out, the scamsters who use eBay/PayPal even have their own forums dedicated to how to defraud people. To put that in perspective, we have a forum here to talk about one thing, IBM Laptops, ... and there's a whole community of people with a forum to talk about how to do rip-offs using eBay. Think about that the next time you wonder if the fellow at the other end of your eBay transaction is legit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:48 pm 
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nonny wrote:
Quoting me:>Their "three days for payment" is not enforceable
How come? (I don't disagree; I'm just curious.)

Their payment terms stipulate both "All buyers must provide us with a method of payment within 3 days of the ended auction" as well as "Payment must be received within 3 days after the end of auction". The terms are mutually exclusive and ambiguous, especially as without defining what a day is, it's normal to consider that they mean "business" days.

By that reasoning, Vicky met the three day limit.

But you and I both know that she's going to have a great deal of difficulty getting her money back.

Regards,

James

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 Post subject: Re: Thumbs down on eBay
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:03 pm 
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XCoalMiner wrote:
eBay (and PayPal) are tools for scam artists!

Take a look at the forums at fatwallet.com if you doubt this. As someone on fatwallet recently pointed out, the scamsters who use eBay/PayPal even have their own forums dedicated to how to defraud people. To put that in perspective, we have a forum here to talk about one thing, IBM Laptops, ... and there's a whole community of people with a forum to talk about how to do rip-offs using eBay. Think about that the next time you wonder if the fellow at the other end of your eBay transaction is legit.


I looked very carefully at this seller's feedback before purchasing, all seemed very sound.

Except I am one of the minority who has got taken for a ride.

Having been told the order was processed and feedback left, at least I know the item has been sent.

I think. They said they'd email me the tracking number but they have been *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** at emailing me back without continuous prompting so I don't expect it any time this side of the year 3000....

Vicky

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:05 pm 
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JHEM wrote:
nonny wrote:
Quoting me:>Their "three days for payment" is not enforceable
How come? (I don't disagree; I'm just curious.)

Their payment terms stipulate both "All buyers must provide us with a method of payment within 3 days of the ended auction" as well as "Payment must be received within 3 days after the end of auction". The terms are mutually exclusive and ambiguous, especially as without defining what a day is, it's normal to consider that they mean "business" days.

By that reasoning, Vicky met the three day limit.

But you and I both know that she's going to have a great deal of difficulty getting her money back.


And don't I just know that. *sighs*

I really cannot believe this seller, supposedly IBM authorised has actually done this... Doesn't matter what good turns you do in life, there will always be *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** spitting on you no matter what.

Vicky

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:35 pm 
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>without defining what a day is, it's normal to consider that they mean "business" days.
>

Ummm... I dunno. It says "Payment must be received within 3 days after the end of auction." Now see, that's where my paranoia flares up. If things don't stipulate business days in the very fine print, I automatically assume calendar days.

And unfortunately, the other line that's worded as "All buyers must provide us with a method of payment within 3 days of the ended auction." can be taken a couple of different ways.

I think the ambiguity and the boilerplate about a bid being a binding contract to pay is going to make it very hard for her to get satisfaction.

Very troubling. I hope it can be resolved.

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