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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Lenovo's 10.1-inch ThinkPad Tablet 2 announced, launching with Windows 8 in October

Read the article:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/8/322899 ... d-tablet-2

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Nice. Might've considered that if not for Windows 8. Just got the Google Nexus 7 and like that form factor over the 10.1. Looks like a solid piece of kit though.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:45 pm 
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Important fact: it's x86.

That, the size and Windows 8 (Pro) make it a totally different device than Nexus 7. I could imagine having both for different tasks.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Point taken.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:19 pm 
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I doubt, Lenovo will release the Hardware Maintenance Manual for this.

edit: I regret writing the above sentence.
edit: remove unsubstantiated criticism, and change opinion to be more positive:

My first thought about Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 is, that this Lenovo seems influenced by Motion Computing CL series. But after reading a bit more, I am impressed. Front- and rear-facing cameras, of two and eight megasensels. Pen garage. Maybe a Wacom digitiser? Maybe repairable. Claimed long battery life. Three radios (at least). A slate just one centimetre thick.

I do not care about the thinness, but I am impressed. I think we can all ignore the limitations of the 6-row keyboard accessory, as it is an Option, rather than the crucial primary interface. (Plus, PrtSc is not stupidly located between AltGr and Ctrl.)


Last edited by automobus on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:27 pm 
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automobus wrote:
I doubt, Lenovo will release the Hardware Maintenance Manual for this.

I see no reason why Lenovo will not release HMM for this. They did it for the original tablet.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:47 pm 
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:oops: You are correct! I did not know that the Android tablet had a HMM. I am a fool. I assumed, merely because of its Android platform, that it was not a repairable business machine. I will be more careful of what I write, and check the reality, before I next present my imagination to others.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:46 am 
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1.3 lbs is incredible for a 10.1" tablet with an x86 Intel processor. The Microsoft Surface Pro will weigh 1.99 lbs, though that will use Core i5 and will include a lid with a physical keyboard. All of the current Windows 7 tablets are at least 1.6 lbs (usually over 2 lbs) and are extremely thick.

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Last edited by pianowizard on Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:08 am 
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automobus wrote:
I did not know that the Android tablet had a HMM.


Yup, good to see that Lenovo is at least keeping some parts of the ThinkPad tradition alive. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:52 pm 
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I think this is going to be the best slate computer/tablet on the market.

If i need to replace my HTC shift, this will be the one that will do it :D

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Forget Windows 8, the nice thing is that it's x86 so it'll allow other OSs to be installed!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:34 pm 
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ThinkRob wrote:
Forget Windows 8, the nice thing is that it's x86 so it'll allow other OSs to be installed!

I recall quite long time ago Microsoft was pushing for some kind of BIOS lock down to prevent people from installing a different OS. Does anybody know more about this?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:08 pm 
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I believe you're referring to UEFI secure boot (and I'm no expert...).

This requires boot loaders to be signed and the signature verified to boot. The goal is to prevent rootkits. Microsoft provides a means by which companies can pay a $99 fee and have their boot loader signed by Microsoft (since Microsoft key will likely be on every system). Ubuntu Linux and Fedora Linux are doing this, for example. You can read about Ubuntu's details here: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Canonical-details-Ubuntu-UEFI-Secure-Boot-plans-1624444.html. So you'll still be able to load open source OS's on hardware with secure boot.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:19 am 
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Thanks. Yes, that's what I was referring to. Glad to hear it's still doable, hopefuly the upcoming x86 tablets won't be different.

Is there a way to get OS X past that?

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Last edited by yak on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:04 am 
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yak wrote:
Is there a way to get OS X pass that?


On x86 users must be able to disable Secure Boot (if the system is certified for Windows 8.)

So, yes.

In fact, the only reason that Fedora, et al. are bothering with the signed bootloader is to make installation easier for users who don't or won't change their UEFI config. (That, and it does -- to a small extent -- improve security. Just not enough to justify it being such a pain to deal with.)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:08 am 
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I would have been all over this if it wasn't a Windows device.

For my money, and in the long term I can see Android and iOS being the main 2 players with everyone else in a distant 2nd or 3rd place.

This whole Android experience over the last few years has re-enforced many concepts I have had for mobile computing devices for years. Microsoft simply does not evolve or understand things as quickly as other tech companies. That being said for a desktop OS, Windows 7 is pure magic. It works wonderfully on every machine I have installed it on. Windows 8? The less said about that aberration, the better.

Back on topic though, I was really hoping Lenovo would do a TPT2 with a Tegra3 chip, 2GB of RAM and Android OS 4.1. I love my TPT and use for hours every day. It's fast, looks awesome and is a joy to use. Guess my next Android tablet will be the Note 10.1. Too bad. I love rolling into a conference room with my T61 and TPT in tow. Show off some enterprise class gear.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:53 am 
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Temetka wrote:
I would have been all over this if it wasn't a Windows device.


I am sure Lenovo will make plenty of consumer-class tablets that run Android. This Thinkpad Tablet is intended for professionals who need to run x86 programs and it makes sense because the Thinkpad brand is supposed to be a professional brand, so I am glad that Lenovo is leaving casual entertainment stuff for their consumer-class products. I am a scientist and none of my many data analysis programs can run on Android or MacOS machines. The main reason I haven't jumped on the tablet bandwagon is that I am waiting for a good tablet that runs full Windows. Both this Thinkpad Tablet 2 and Microsoft's Surface Pro look promising, though we still don't know what their price tags will be.

I do have an HP Touchpad but use it only for viewing PDF files. The QuickOffice that's preinstalled on this tablet is far from a viable substitute for Microsoft Office.

Temetka wrote:
Microsoft simply does not evolve or understand things as quickly as other tech companies.


Microsoft understands what professional users need. No one else does. I am counting on Microsoft to meet my future software needs and pray that they will never "evolve". In the past few years, virtually all hardware manufacturers have turned their professional products into entertainment toys. If software manufacturers do the same, I might as well retire.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:10 pm 
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pianowizard wrote:
Microsoft understands what professional users need. No one else does. I am counting on Microsoft to meet my future software needs and pray that they will never "evolve". In the past few years, virtually all hardware manufacturers have turned their professional products into entertainment toys. If software manufacturers do the same, I might as well retire.


Then, sadly, Metro.

So... Florida it is, eh? ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:26 pm 
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ThinkRob wrote:
Then, sadly, Metro.


I played with Windows 8 for a couple weeks and was actually getting the hang of the Metro start screen. I hated using it with the mouse, but learned that we can find the program/feature we want just by typing the first few letters of its name, which may be more efficient than the classic start menu.

I came across an article describing the hundreds of new tricks of Win 8. It would take a long time to learn them but once they have become second nature, I can imagine myself working more efficiently than ever. This reminds me of the change from Windows 3.1 to 95. It took me a fairly long time to adapt and at first I didn't like the change, but eventually I found 95 to be far superior.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:30 am 
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pianowizard wrote:
I played with Windows 8 for a couple weeks and was actually getting the hang of the Metro start screen. I hated using it with the mouse, but learned that we can find the program/feature we want just by typing the first few letters of its name, which may be more efficient than the classic start menu.


Yes, it's tolerable if you use the keyboard -- but that doesn't excuse it since keyboard-based launching's been around since Vista at least.

Personally my issue with Metro (and, to a lesser extent, GNOME 3 and Unity) is this: yes, with enough time I might be able to alter my workflow enough that I could reach my previous levels of productivity. But why? Why should I have to? I get that Windows 8 is solid on tablets. And for that it's a decent (not great, but decent) UI. But for a desktop? Why should I have to adapt to yet another slew of UI changes which offer me exactly nothing.

Maybe most folks are different, but when I sit down at my computer I actually have a very clear idea of 1) What software is installed on my computer 2) What I want to do. Metro seems to assume that I have neither, and that using my computer is such a wonderful new adventure that I need to be presented with flashy "tiles" representing each program that I could run lest I forget what my options are.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:53 pm 
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Lol.

Android is not for Pro's? Almost every IT guy I know uses some form of Android tablet in the field, on a daily basis.

If you want x86 software, Citrix it.

The paradigm is shifting. I suggest you shift with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:08 pm 
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ThinkRob wrote:
Yes, it's tolerable if you use the keyboard -- but that doesn't excuse it since keyboard-based launching's been around since Vista at least.


It was very crude in Vista, got much better in 7, and even better in 8. You just have to try it for a while to realize it.

ThinkRob wrote:
Personally my issue with Metro (and, to a lesser extent, GNOME 3 and Unity) is this: yes, with enough time I might be able to alter my workflow enough that I could reach my previous levels of productivity. But why? Why should I have to? I get that Windows 8 is solid on tablets. And for that it's a decent (not great, but decent) UI. But for a desktop? Why should I have to adapt to yet another slew of UI changes which offer me exactly nothing.


These were exactly my thoughts when I was forced to upgrade from Windows 3.1 and Dos 6 to Windows 95.

Temetka wrote:
Android is not for Pro's?


In the same sense as saying that, while pros can use consumer-class laptops, they benefit more from business-class laptops. Or, while I could bike to work, it's easier to drive (this is just an example; I actually walk to work). Not surprisingly, most business-class tablets run Windows, not Android.

Temetka wrote:
Almost every IT guy I know uses some form of Android tablet in the field, on a daily basis.


What kinds of advanced, hardcore professional tasks do these IT guys do in the field? Countless professionals need to do far more demanding stuff on the go.

Temetka wrote:
If you want x86 software, Citrix it.


Much easier to just buy a standard computer with standard Windows, especially for personal computers not supported by one's company. You need to understand that not everyone has easy access to Citrix.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:09 am 
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pianowizard wrote:
These were exactly my thoughts when I was forced to upgrade from Windows 3.1 and Dos 6 to Windows 95.


The introduction of Win32, massively improved driver support, good cooperative multi-tasking, way better hardware management, and superior internationalization were important reasons as well.

And I resent the implication that disliking Windows 8 stems from a reluctance to change to new UIs just because they're new. No, my dislike of the Windows 8 UI is due to the fact that it appears to be new for the sake of being new while at the same time removing perfectly-functional components. It's a good tablet UI, but it's a massive step backwards to push it on the desktop.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:25 am 
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ThinkRob wrote:
The introduction of Win32, massively improved driver support, good cooperative multi-tasking, way better hardware management, and superior internationalization were important reasons as well.


We all know these now but when it first came out, I thought Microsoft had only rearranged things.

ThinkRob wrote:
And I resent the implication that disliking Windows 8 stems from a reluctance to change to new UIs just because they're new. No, my dislike of the Windows 8 UI is due to the fact that it appears to be new for the sake of being new while at the same time removing perfectly-functional components. It's a good tablet UI, but it's a massive step backwards to push it on the desktop.


That was not my implication at all. I hated it when Microsoft randomly shuffled things around in Microsoft 2007 for no good reason. However, Windows 8 isn't just changing the UI, but it also includes many new tricks that are intended to improve efficiency. I forget where I came across that article but it explained in detail all the dozens if not hundreds of innovations that Windows 8 has introduced.

Like I said, I believe that once we have learned Windows 8, we will end up working more efficiently than ever.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:02 pm 
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pianowizard wrote:
We all know these now but when it first came out, I thought Microsoft had only rearranged things.


Fair point, although I will say that some of this was well known in advance, just not by users. (Of course Chicago promised a lot more than actually shipped, but when has that not been the case?)

Quote:
That was not my implication at all.


:oops: Oops. Sorry, I really misinterpreted your comment then!

Quote:
However, Windows 8 isn't just changing the UI, but it also includes many new tricks that are intended to improve efficiency. I forget where I came across that article but it explained in detail all the dozens if not hundreds of innovations that Windows 8 has introduced.


I agree that the intent is to improve efficiency, but I think that the largest changes counterbalance the numerous small improvements. Obviously I'm completely conjecturing based on my experiences with the Windows 8 previews combined with the general sentiment of people I know who have used it. Maybe Microsoft has done extensive usability studies and determined that it will be a massive boost for people.

I tend to think that's not the case though. I remember how much "better" the ribbon was -- but my experience with it and the experience of the (at this point) hundred or so people with whom I've discussed it over the last couple years is that it's a step backwards, albeit one that you can kinda cope with because, well, what other choice do you have? I know that Microsoft had studies that demonstrated it was an improvement in efficiency, but I think there was a fundamental disconnect between the test group and the people that actually use it in day-to-day work.

Since it's Friday afternoon and I'm waiting for my IDE to un-screw itself, permit me a small (but rather related) digression:

One of the hardest things that I've had to come to terms with as a software developer is this: If you work on user-facing software, and if user satisfaction is your primary goal, then you must make yourself subservient to your users, no matter how painful this is.

If you come up with an improved way of doing things but the vast majority of your users insist on using some old, outdated, less-efficient way that only sorta-kinda-worked because you never fixed it or implemented it "the Right Way" the first time around, then your "new and improved" way is wrong. Yes, it's a humbling experience. Yes, it's frustrating to see people doing something in an inferior way when you know you could tell them to do it more efficiently. But if your goal is to create software that makes users happy, you must suppress these frustrations. You sit there in the UA testing session and you listen to them complain about your new shiny UI feature $foo and you resist the urge to speak out and tell them they're wrong. When you take your notes, you stifle the impulse to write "make use of improved $foo mandatory", and instead write "fix $bug with $old_foo" because *that* is what will make your users love your software.

This is often painful as hell.

Speaking from experience here: when you work hard and put out a great effort to make something that you know is awesome, there is a strong, strong impulse to say "no, don't do *that*, use $my_new_thing instead!". Sometimes it's better and the users like it more. Yes, you should encourage them to try it. But when they try it and, en masse, they say that they prefer the old way, the old way becomes the "Right Way", even if you think otherwise. If you fight this, they will resent you. You may be in a position (due to a monopoly, a captive market, organizational constraints, whatever) to force them to use $my_new_thing. But if you do this, they will resent you for it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:05 am 
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i am now saving my aluminum coke cans..

WhooHoo a windows tablet.. :banana:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:09 pm
Posts: 44
Location: North Carolina
Temetka wrote:
Lol.

Android is not for Pro's? Almost every IT guy I know uses some form of Android tablet in the field, on a daily basis.

If you want x86 software, Citrix it.

The paradigm is shifting. I suggest you shift with it.


Really? I don't know anyone in IT that has an android tablet. I don't know anyone that has money to waste on a product that will be worthless in about one to two years because of fragmentation.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:35 am 
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monkeybagel wrote:
......because of fragmentation.


err, what..?

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Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

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She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:27 pm 
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BillMorrow wrote:

err, what..?


I agree.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:42 am 
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maybe i'm showing my disinterest in android but will win 8 for tablets require specific hardware thus freezing android tablet owners out of using windohs..?

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Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
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*
She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~


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