A request for general feedback on Windows 8...

[npish]

I would consider myself highly adaptable when it comes to embracing software/OS/interface updates of all kinds; I've been with Windows since 3.1 and I've never hesitated in upgrading immediately with successive versions, even in the case of Vista (with which I never had a real problem btw). However, the "split personality" of Windows 8 has me a bit concerned, and I've read many conflicting reports about the impact on productivity and usability with respect to dealing with the metro interface on a non-touch based, desktop/workstation machine-- this being the scenario for which I'm most interested in hearing feedback.

There is no other online community from which I'd rather gather feedback in forming my decision to upgrade or not; so any comments from the Thinkpad-faithful are appreciated. As a starting point for responses: have you found it easy to adapt to the new UI? do you feel like it's adversely affected productivity in any way, eg with multitasking? would you rather revert to Windows 7?

Thanks for any comments/opinions!

(addendum: for the record, I'd be upgrading on a W520)

[tim S]

I have nothing but praise for Windows 8. Boot times in the 25 second range with an SSD and 2G turbo memory,
on an X200 tablet of all things! Why the turbo memory made a difference I don't know as no drivers were added!

In my very unqualified opinion Windows 8 seems to be 2 operating systems in one.
Metro is a super secure, not to be messed with, separate system. Anything you want to add or change can only
be done through the Windows 8 environment, such as apps from the store, changing colors, icons and the like.
Metro is as easy to navigate with a mouse as it is with finger swipes, so no concerns there.

The second system is the Desktop. Here we get into a kind of Windows 7 environment but without a start button,
after a while you don't notice it's missing anyway! On the desktop you have all the icons displaying the programs
or hardware you added that are not Windows 8 'approved'. However they will run just fine in Desktop. Even though
a tile is created on the Metro side for such programs when you click on them Metro switches to the Desktop in a flash
and the program opens and runs from there.

Sure there's a small learning curve, as with anything new but it's not difficult. Shutting down takes a few steps but
I don't even notice it now!

All in all I'm more than happy with it and I have no need or desire to return to 7.

Tim S

[Fixed_Rider]

To echo tim S....Yes!

I have had zero issues with Win 8 on my daughters T43p (without a Live account).
On my x61 the Mail app crashes immediately and repeatedly if I don't launch it and let it be for a couple minutes. It appears to not be able to handle navigating in my many email accounts and syncing at the same time.
I have been using it more than Ubuntu 12.10 and Mint 13, which is where XP and Win7 drove me!

[npish]

thanks for the great feedback guys. I'm particularly glad to hear that the missing start button isn't causing too much headache (I've read many conflicting accounts on that front.)

Tim-- how are you implementing the 2GB turbo memory?

[Ashley_Pomeroy]

I summarised my experiences here, with an XP-Windows upgrade on my modest ThinkPad X61, which has a conventional hard drive. Since then I've installed Classic Shell, which puts back the start button. I've been using ReadyBoost with a small SD card, which at the very least doesn't seem to do any harm. On the whole I like Windows 8 - as Tim points out it boots noticeably faster, and overall it feels very solid. I'm pleasantly surprised that Microsoft slimmed things down instead of bloating things out. It's uncharacteristically grown-up of them.

There are a few irritations - when you install applications the start screen gets cluttered; there's a more organised but slightly hidden "second start screen" if you use the charms bar; it's slightly harder to just pop open Notepad the first time, but Classic Shell fixes most of this. On a desktop machine the start screen would feel odd, with the big icons that you can't press. I remember some horror stories from the early previews, e.g. this one from The Register, but the key thing is that you don't have to use "the interface formerly known as Metro"; and you're not supposed to use it for system administration work.

In general though the start screen is much less malignant than I expected, the main reason being that it pops up instantly - it really doesn't take more time to switch to it and click the appropriate icon than it does to use the start button. Search is just as bad as it was in later versions of XP, but there's still a DOS shell, so you can always do dir i:\ scarlett_johansson*.* /s (for example). I actually find the charms bar more of a distraction, mainly because I never really have to use it. After a fortnight I'm actually finding it harder to write about Windows 8, because I take it mostly for granted now.

Bear in mind that this was an upgrade on a machine with almost nothing on it. As an upgrade for an XP machine with lots of old software I would think twice until I absolutely *had* to bite the bullet. If you're upgrading from Windows 7 it doesn't really add much except for the speed - ironically my six-year-old Core II Duo 2.0ghz X61 now boots faster than my 3.3ghz i5-2500K desktop machine. It's a shame you can't upgrade 32-bit Windows XP to 64-bit Windows 8 though (even with a fresh installation). And Windows 7's Virtual XP Mode is gone, too.

Cor, Windows 3.1. I'd love to find a cheap old ThinkPad 700 or something on eBay so that I can experience Windows 3.1 again. Here in the UK the older, bento-box machines seem incredibly rare (there's a massive glut of X40/41s, nothing much from before then).

[K-a-M-u-Z-u]

if you dont like metro interface, you have nice little application called "classic shell" that give you back the start button with all win 7 features.and you can use it alone, or combined with metro start screen.

[Radioguy]

if you dont like metro interface, you have nice little application called "classic shell" that give you back the start button with all win 7 features.and you can use it alone, or combined with metro start screen.

This.

Seriously, if you haven't heard of Classic Shell you have missed out in a big way.

[pianowizard]

Seriously, if you haven't heard of Classic Shell you have missed out in a big way.

After using Metro for a while, I now actually prefer it over the Classic Start Menu because the Metro tiles are big and easy to click. I also find scrolling up and down the Classic Start Menu kind of annoying. On the Metro screen, all of my frequently accessed tiles fit on the screen and so there is no need to scroll at all.

Another complaint I have heard about Windows 8 is that we need to go through several steps to shut down the computer. That's not true at all because all we need to do is press "Alt" and "F4", just like for Windows 95 through Windows 7. There is also a setting where you tell the computer to shut down when you press the power button.

I am tempted to say Windows 8 is the best OS I have ever used.

[Radioguy]

I was speaking beyond Win8, though. Classic Shell is an amazing customization tool that offers far more than just a start menu.

Another complaint I have heard about Windows 8 is that we need to go through several steps to shut down the computer. That's not true at all because all we need to do is press "Alt" and "F4", just like for Windows 95 through Windows 7. There is also a setting where you tell the computer to shut down when you press the power button.

Really, I'm no Win8 hater, but I actually laughed out loud at this. Is that actually presented as "the" option by MS? For years...years, most mouse-wielding Windows users have gravitated away from, and even forgot the existence of, those archaic legacy shortcuts (which I use regularly ). It would be hilarious if MS is presenting this as new functionality.

[pianowizard]

It would be hilarious if MS is presenting this as new functionality.

MS has never said anything about "Alt" + "F4", not for Windows 8 or for any previous version for that matter. In the above post, I was merely educating those users who know nothing about keystroke shortcuts. I have been using these shortcuts since Windows 3.1.

[tim S]

I installed a 2G chip of turbo memeory along with the Win 7 drivers. I found that under Windows 8
the startup times slowed by quite a bit but programs seemed to open faster but only by a fraction.
So I used the Lenovo Remove Turbo Driver to get rid of it. I left the memory in the laptop and now
everything is marginally faster, or seems to be. Anyway I'm happy.

It also seems that letting Win 8 control things as Fn+F5 etc used to do, on an X200T is
a better way to go. At least until the Hot Key Drivers are specially written for Win 8.

TIm S

[geoffrey]

I ran the preview versions for several weeks both on an old T43p and on a new W520, and now I've adopted Windows 8 (64bit) as my main working operating system on the W520. Very, very fast -- although I do have a Crucial mSATA SSD and an Intel SATA SSD for my storage needs. I'm running the OS off the mSATA and my important data are on the Intel. I clean-installed Windows 8 after formatting the mSATA as a GPT disk, but the Intel is still MBR.

Functionally, I'm very happy indeed. The system feels incredibly responsive, everything is fast and it's a breeze searching for files by pressing Win-F. That search is very fast and gives more information about each file than the old start menu did. As for launching programmes, I tend just to use those I've pinned to the task bar. Having instant email notifications pop up in the top right corner (this is optional), even when I'm working in Word, is great, as I can actually get to see who the email is from and what the subject and first line are. This has made me use the Modern UI email app more than I thought I would, because if you see an important message pop up, it's so easy just to click on it (I'm actually an Outlook user).

At first I really did not like the Start screen. Aesthetically the shock between the familiar desktop environment and the Modern UI with its doodle-like patterns and utter flatness was jarring every time I had to press the windows key. I tried Classic Shell, but thought it looked too retro (Win XP style). I tried Start8, which for a while seemed like the best solution as it allows you to have a half-way house with a Metro-style start menu. But then Decor8 came out in Beta, and I have to say that it almost entirely eliminates the aesthetic shock. It cleverly blends the standard icon colours with the predominant colours in any photograph you put on the Start screen, and fades the photo into that predominant colour, so that the tiles seem to float over whatever background you've chosen. I don't like the idea of buying an add-on, even though it's very cheap, but it does make a huge difference visually to me. Maybe someone will come up with a free version.

So I now find myself using the Start screen more and more. Yes, it's a pain when you install a non-Modern programme, because you get icons for all the uninstallers, readme's and so on. But these can be quickly eliminated, and it's easy to organize the most important items at the front (left) of the Start screen, so I rarely have to bother scrolling to the right.

But most of the time I just work on the desktop and kind of forget this is Windows 8, as it could easily just be Win 7 with better performance.

Shutdown: just configure your off-button to shut down in whatever way you want (sleep, hibernate, shutdown). Or use the lid for sleep/hibernate and the off button for shutdown. Mostly I just shut the lid. If I want to choose Restart, I click on the task bar or the desktop and press Alt-F4, R. Easy.

[Cigarguy]

Looks like the Start menu might be making a come back. Normally I don't pay much attention to the comments section but I found it interesting.....as usual with a grain of salt.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Start- ... 19161.html

I've tried Win 8 while it was in beta and Metro was a turn off for me. That and Win 7 does everything I need. I'll wait till Win 9. Typically I found every other Windows version is best for me: Win 98 good, ME sucks, XP good, Vista sucks, Win 7 good.

I don't need a "unified" OS interface. I have no problem adjusting between smartphone, tablet and laptop/desktop OS so long as it does what I want. I like to learn new things but don't like being forced. Because of Metro I've been trying different Linux distros and I'm fairly impressed with what I've seen. Will continue to try, use and customize some more Linux distro and hopefully ween myself slowly, at my own pace, from MS. The cost savings and lack of EULA restrictions is a benefit. At this stage in my life I know what I want and I'll go to whoever serve my needs.

[Benoone]

I'm am considering paying real cash for Win7 or Win8 for a computer (not a tablet) that I'm building.

So, I went to newegg com to read all of the (184) reviews of Win8. I found it amazing that almost 70% gave it less than 5 stars and 3 out of 10 only gave it 1 star which I found to be somewhat telling. And, I have more faith in the Newegg customer base rather than Overstock or Amazon.

Here's a typical one star review:

Cons: My Goodness, where to start...

Basically in a nutshell, Microsoft decided that it doesn't care about what it's customer base wants, they're giving us what they want us to have and in this case it's the dumbed down operating system that is more at home on your cell phone or tablet. Seriously, they feel that one size fits all and what's good for a cell phone is good for a home computer.

They've taken away or hidden almost every menu item other than what's on its Metro desktop. No more Start Menu. There's still a Control Panel if you can remember the keyboard short cut to find it. There's essentially two desktops now. As absurd as it sounds there doesn't appear to be an easy way to create a new icon (or tile) on the Metro desktop. Really?

Other Thoughts: Basically I purchased this not because I wanted it but only because I need to get familiar with it since I provide desktop support to a bunch of people and some may choose to purchase this garbage. 16 out of 23 people found this review helpful.

Because I will be using this CPU for business and really like Office 2003, have tons of XP software, don't have the time to learn a new OS and, after doing my homework I will now pay $179 for Win7 Ultimate rather than $139 for the Win8 edition.

Hope this helps someone else to make an educated decision.

Glenn

@Cigarguy - Thanks for the link:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Start- ... 19161.html
Really? The guy who got rid of the Start Button... got fired?

[Cigarguy]

^^ You really need all the features that Ultimate offers? If not Pro edition is plentiful for most user. IMO Win 8 is the beta for Win 9 just as Vista was a beta for Win 7. When Vista first came out it was buggy, slow and had some driver issues.

[Benoone]

^^ You really need all the features that Ultimate offers?

Pro is $139 and Ultimate is $179

For forty bucks I'll install it once and then it's all done - If I ever need remote desktop then it was worth it. If not then you really, really, really will be correct

But thanks for making me re-think it.

Glenn

[Surfplug]

Has anyone tried Win on a T61 and have any issues? I guess if it works on a T4x it should be fine.

[craigmontHunter]

Benoone - before you drop the money, windows 7 pro does support remote desktop as the host. 7 Ultimate gives you bitlocker and multiple languages- if you need those then I guess you'll have to drop the extra $40.

[K0LO]

After using Windows 8 on my X61T for a week, my opinion of the new OS has gradually gotten more favorable. The speed improvements alone are worth the upgrade. On this older machine, Windows 8 cold boots (after BIOS POST finishes) in 7 seconds, resumes from hibernate in 7 seconds, and wakes from sleep in less than a second. By comparison, Windows 7 takes 15 sec to boot, 30 seconds to resume from hibernate, and wakes in about 2 sec.

Initially the dual-mode display environments (Start screen and desktop) were disconcerting but I quickly got over that. The new interface makes a lot of sense on a touch-sensitive display. I only wish that this tablet had the touchscreen option but I cheaped-out when I bought it 3 years ago.

I restored an image of the W7 partition the other day and set the machine up to dual-boot W7 and W8 so that I could go back and forth between the two, and it's obvious that I can be more productive with Windows 8. The ribbon interface to the File Explorer has added many single-click shortcuts to administrative tasks that used to take multiple clicks to access. If you dual-boot you'll notice that the new boot manager is graphical and allows easy access to the recovery environment, and can be operated without a keyboard or mouse.

The only real disappointment to me is the removal of "Previous Versions" or shadow copies. Also, Lenovo hasn't yet released W8 drivers for the X61T, so the buttons along the bezel are non-functional. The W7 drivers don't work and the W8 drivers for the X220 and later models don't work on this machine. If anyone has found W8 drivers for the X61 Tablet Buttons, Hotkeys, and Tablet Shortcut button, please reply.

This OS is definitely a keeper. I am going to remove the W7 partition and get on with it.

[bill bolton]

Also, Lenovo hasn't yet released W8 drivers for the X61T

Its two generations back from the oldest Lenovo supported Win 8 ThinkPad platform, so they are unlikely to ever release any Win 8 specifically driver for it.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[hhmcsv]

So, as you may see from my signature, last night I updated my T60 with the upgrade version of Win8 (for DKK 229 (=USD 40)) paid by Paypal. A download of 2Gb followed, and the upgrade process went without any problems .
First, one has to adjust the language so that what was former known as "Programs" are now "Apps" (would somebody throw some apples after Apple? ).
But in contrast to all other system upgrades, the downloaded files takes hand of transfer of files, settings and also all programs (Apps). So after the installation which took about an hour, the T60 is working like a charm, boots in 25 secs (not 15 as i have seen on Youtube). But still very good in relation to the 45 secs with Win7. The new UI does take some effort to get used to and in my case, a heavy cleaning up of unwanted Apps like Games an Weather.
The only thing MS missed in the transfer was the user-account pictures, but everything else seems to work.
Fair enough as a Christmas present to myself from myself

[Tim-ANC]

Typically I found every other Windows version is best for me: Win 98 good, ME sucks, XP good, Vista sucks, Win 7 good.

Yep seems that way to me too. Just got a W530 with Win 8. Was shocking until figured out how to find the desktop. No start button is annoying but I'm open minded and will try to master as is before tweaking. Yes essential to remember the old keyboard short cuts. Close X on a window is gone.

And it won't let me fire up Skype without syncing to my outlook.com address. Gotta find a work around for that.

[Tim-ANC]

For Skype need to download the desktop version then you can use your Skype login. The one win8 pushes is the tablet version.

[precip9]

General comments:
1. "Metro" is an abomination. My message to Microsoft: "You can't p**s on my back and call it rain."
2. With Classic Shell, W8 is livable, although it is still possible to get stuck in a non-windowing (Metro) situation, requiring a few keys to get out of.
3." Disk-->Properties-->Disk Cleanup-->Cleanup System Files" loops forever. The rest of "Disk Cleanup" does work.
4. One hard freeze occurred related to changing nonaccessible properties of a private wireless network incorrectly identified as public.
5. The "progress bar" does not function properly in some circumstances.
6. Some file copies did not start, though this may have already been remedied.
7. Firefox is a little more cantankerous, though I don't know whose fault it is.
8. Contrary to some assertions, Office 2000 works just fine, at least to the extent it works with W7.
9. W8 is faster than W7, but Aero is sorely missed.
10. On a dual boot machine, with W8 installed on an ultrabay drive, W8 corrupts the W7 installation.
11. Upgrade installations on machines with manufacturer installed service partitions leave stuff behind, and should be avoided. There are plenty of web references on how to do a clean install with the W8 upgrade package.

I've switched two Thinkpads with SSDs, an X61s and a T400, over to W8. Many feel that use of hibernate with W7 shortens the disk life. While I've never actually measured the amount of data written, with W7 it typically takes longer to hibernate than to shut down. With W8, hibernate is faster shutting down. Restore from hibernate is very fast, the closest this user has come to an "instant on" experience. But with hard disk based systems, my personal satisfaction still tips in favor of W7.

I've verified that W8 works properly, and that all the drivers work, on these machines: X61s, T400/switchable graphics, W500/switchable graphics. But Aero is just too nice to give up on the W500's.

[piledriver]

I just installed win 8 pro upgrade on an X200 Tablet, boot & operational speed and tablet response is MUCH better than under Vista or Win7, and Lenovo is starting to add Win8 compatible drivers, although most things work out of the box.

You can (currently) do a clean 32 or 64 bit install BTW, it doesn't really seem to check installed OS (yet) if you boot from the install media and have a valid key. Upgrading in place may be another matter, I have so far only done clean installs on 3 machines with (pre-existing) borked Windows installs as a means of rapid repair for family. (data recovered via Linux to USB external)

The only maddening issue I'm having is pen navigation (pen only tablet) works great on the desktop... and NOT at ALL under "metro", so using it as a win8 "metro" tablet is still not happening, but i'm working on it.

Classic Shell is an essential program for win8 on the desktop or laptop, Metro is still available.

[precip9]

I just installed win 8 pro upgrade on an X200 Tablet, boot & operational speed and tablet response is MUCH better than under Vista or Win7

That advantage diminishes, though still obvious, with 8GB of ram. In Windows 7, unused ram, still available for programs, is used to cache kernel modules. In Windows 8, the kernel is small enough that this strategy is not necessary.

[Tim-ANC]

On my new W530 SSD C: drive shows 48GB used but I can only see about 25GB in explorer file manager. Only programs I have installed are Skype and Firefox. What else could be taking up that space?

[Tim-ANC]

Got Classic Shell set up now and using win 7 start menu. Much better. Feels like a tool now instead of a toy.

[Surfplug]

I just installed Windows 8 for the T61 that was running Windows XP Pro after I replaced the 2 GB with 4 GB ram. The installation was simple and relatively fast. It really does load fast and got the programs installed without a hitch. I did install the fingerprint driver and the password manager again, but may install more in time. My three other ThinkPads I may upgrade them from Win 7 to Win 8 after I check out this operating system a bit more. One a X120e runs like a snail on Win 7 that I may do next.

[Tim-ANC]

I got about 25gb on my W530 SSD I can't account for. Anyone know what might be hidden on it? My files are unhidden in windows explorer.