Thinkpads Forum

Even considering other brands because of the chiclet keyboard in the W530 (has anyone tried the chiclet thinkpad keyboard? does it really suck that much?)

My requirements:
15" 1080p display (wish we had retina displays because I hate widescreens)-:
5-6lb weight
4 SODIMM slots <---- this kills off most laptops on the market...need it for VMs
ivy bridge quad 3720

Only ones I've come up with:
- HP 8570W (more expensive...$2K range...and heavier)
- Origin EON-15S (more expensive and only 1.5hr battery life because of the 680M graphics chip

Thanks in advance...

If it can't be a IBM/Lenovo with the true ThinkPad keyboard, I think I'll opt for a Sager based machine going forward. My i7-2820QM W520 should last me for some time though.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

kenyee wrote:has anyone tried the chiclet thinkpad keyboard? does it really suck that much?

I have a X230 right now. The actual typing on it is quite good in my opinion. The pitch is very good and the keyboard is firm. If ThinkPadders have a legit gripe, it's that they've moved some of the shortcut keys around. If that's going to bother you, then the new keyboard probably is a no-go.

kenyee wrote:has anyone tried the chiclet thinkpad keyboard? does it really suck that much?

Yes, I have, and no it does not. I mean... keyboard "feel" is *highly* subjective, but I can say -- based on having typed on most every ThinkPad keyboard design from about 1998 onwards (and several before that) -- that in terms of key feel it's definitely in line with its predecessors; it's worse than some, better than others.

As ZaZ pointed out though, the layout is different. This may be a big deal for you or it may not be. For me it's a little less convenient, but it wouldn't be a deal-breaker if I were considering a W530.

If you actually need 32GB of RAM there are not a lot of choices. Most of the market is pretty happy at 16GB.

If the new keyboard feels as good as the old one you can just as well go with W530 because other laptops will not have the old ThinkPad keyboard layout anyway. In other words, no matter what you choose you will loose the current layout.

Or get a W520. You will never notice the performance difference. CPU is 1 tick slower (about 4%) but the DRAM is faster and cache is bigger.

(Unless you need K2000 graphics - 2000M is probably slower)

awolfe63 wrote:Or get a W520. You will never notice the performance difference. CPU is 1 tick slower (about 4%) but the DRAM is faster and cache is bigger.

(Unless you need K2000 graphics - 2000M is probably slower)

Agree with this and I think it's a good recommendation, particularly if you don't want to chance the new keyboard layout being an issue for you.

ok...I decided to be a guinea pig and I'm hoping I can adapt to the keyboard...basically all other options were heavier and more expensive

B&N discount ends today as well as the 500GB "free" hard drive upgrade (which I'm replacing w/ an SSD).
Got the 6 cell battery because I didn't want a butt wart...don't know what they were thinking w/ the 9 cell battery...at least make it look better
Will report back after I run it for a few weeks to see if I get the infamous W520 crashes and hot pixels that I'd hope Lenovo will take care of if they exist on the W530....

Build is below for the curious...

ken

=========================

ThinkPad W530 - 1 Year Depot Warranty
Processor
Intel Core i7-3720QM Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.60 GHz)
Operating system Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)
Operating system language Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 - English
Display type 15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) LED Backlit AntiGlare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
System graphics NVIDIA Quadro K2000M Graphics with 2GB DDR3 Memory
Total memory 4 GB PC3-12800 DDR3 (1 DIMM)
Keyboard Keyboard Backlit - US English
Pointing device UltraNav with Fingerprint Reader for Color Sensor, Smart Card Reader
Camera 720p HD Camera with Microphone
Hard drive 500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Optical device Optical Bay Travel Bezel
System expansion slots Express Card Slot & 4-in-1 Card Reader & Smart Card Reader
Battery 6 Cell Li-Ion TWL 70+
Power cord 170W Slim AC Adapter - US (2pin)
Bluetooth Bluetooth 4.0 with Antenna
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 AGN
Integrated mobile broadband Mobile Broadband upgradable
Language pack Publication - US English

41C9170 3Yr Base Warranty Extension
$119.00
$67.83

$119.00
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Just curious. What are you running on it that uses such serious 3D?

kenyee wrote:Got the 6 cell battery because I didn't want a butt wart...don't know what they were thinking w/ the 9 cell battery...at least make it look

It makes a nice handle actually.

I wonder how the runtimes stack up..?

awolfe63 wrote:Just curious. What are you running on it that uses such serious 3D?

3d visualization software...I'm also a software developer (consultant so I have to bring my own gear usually) so that's why I was worried about the keyboard.
At this point, the k1000m is probably enough, but more apps are being written for gpgpu use, so it doesn't hurt to get the k2000m as long as it doesn't kill battery life though I wonder if it's worth the extra $200...

hunterman223 wrote: I wonder how the runtimes stack up..?

The claim is 7 hrs on 6 cell and 11 hrs on 9 cell with the w530, so figure 5 and 9 in real life
I'm hoping swapping the hard drive for ssd will give me 7 on the 6 cell...

kenyee wrote:The claim is 7 hrs on 6 cell and 11 hrs on 9 cell with the w530, so figure 5 and 9 in real life
I'm hoping swapping the hard drive for ssd will give me 7 on the 6 cell...

That would be pretty respectable. Sounds right however, as people were claiming as much as 7-8 hours depending on usage with the W520.

hunterman223 wrote: That would be pretty respectable. Sounds right however, as people were claiming as much as 7-8 hours depending on usage with the W520.

I think those claims were with the 9 cell battery on the W520.
Ivy Bridge uses a bit less power on the W530, so it gets a bit more battery life on the 9 cell. I'm starting to wonder whether they spec'd those numbers assuming you chose the SSD option though...

Will find out in a few weeks...

The Dell Precision M4600 has 1920x1080 IPS and uses a traditional, non-chiclet keyboard.

2.5" hard drives have become very power efficient - although the 7200 RPM drives are not as good. SSDs don't save a lot. (Especially Sandforce based ones).

Displays and backlight brightness are the big contributors when near idle. CPU and GPU when at load.

pianowizard wrote:The Dell Precision M4600 has 1920x1080 IPS and uses a traditional, non-chiclet keyboard.

I hear that screen is very nice, but the most bare i5 config w/ the IPS starts at $2,127 before tax...

You can get a quad-core W530 with all the options (including the better GPU besides) upgraded HDD and memory for the same price. If the FHD is the same panel as the W520 it's no IPS but it's still pretty good. Plus the W530 is a little lighter. I don't know about the build quality of the latitude but the W530 should be similar if not the same as the W520, which is good.

awolfe63 wrote:2.5" hard drives have become very power efficient - although the 7200 RPM drives are not as good. SSDs don't save a lot. (Especially Sandforce based ones).

Displays and backlight brightness are the big contributors when near idle. CPU and GPU when at load.

Compared to an SSD, 5400 RPM = slow and 7200 RPM usually = less battery life, warm palmrest, and a constant spinning noise which can be heard in a quiet room. At least that's the case with my WD Scorpio Black.

SSDs are cheap nowadays, you can get a 64GB Crucial M4 for less than $80, and a 128GB version for $120. If you need more storage stick a spinner in an ultrabay caddy and use when needed.

hunterman223 wrote:I hear that screen is very nice, but the most bare i5 config w/ the IPS starts at $2,127 before tax...

No. Get the M4600 from the Dell Business Outlet. Not only it would be cheaper, but it would also come with 3-year warranty. When it comes to value, nothing beats getting Latitudes or Precisions from the Dell Outlet because they all carry 3 years of warranty.

hunterman223 wrote:I don't know about the build quality of the latitude

The M4600 is a Precision, which is better than the Latitudes.

M4600 is last year's model though so it would be equivalent to the W520 (except having IPS screen available).
If graphics performance is really critical the 17" M6600 has higher-end GPUs than the 15" models.
I don't know if Dell has announced when their new models will be available.

awolfe63 wrote:Or get a W520. You will never notice the performance difference. CPU is 1 tick slower (about 4%) but the DRAM is faster and cache is bigger.

(Unless you need K2000 graphics - 2000M is probably slower)

DRAM of W520 is faster than that of the W530? Bigger cache? Huh? Am I missing something?

kenyee wrote:
I think those claims were with the 9 cell battery on the W520.
Ivy Bridge uses a bit less power on the W530, so it gets a bit more battery life on the 9 cell. I'm starting to wonder whether they spec'd those numbers assuming you chose the SSD option though...

Will find out in a few weeks...

No, I think he is right, especially with "depending on usage" attached.

Ivy bridge might use a bit less... at full performance. Look at these reviews:
W520:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Lenov ... 417.0.html

Idle (ohne WLAN, min Helligkeit) 12h 46min
Surfen über WLAN 6h 02min
DVD 5h 28min
Last (volle Helligkeit) 1h 30min

W530:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Lenov ... 861.0.html

Idle (ohne WLAN, min Helligkeit) 11h 18min
Surfen über WLAN 6h 32min
DVD 5h 12min
Last (volle Helligkeit) 2h 42min

Well, no Ivy Bridge Power consumption miracles except at full performance. (And that might just as well be the GPU). It's the same on desktops btw; idle power consumption for Ivy Bridge CPU's isn't lower compared to their Sandy Bridge counterparts.

EDIT: 'Ohne' is German for 'Without' and 'Last' is German for 'Load'

Sorry - I was unclear. The W520 is available with the i7-2860QM which I was comparing to the i7-3720QM he suggested. It has a bigger cache, but, in fact the DRAM speed is the same.

Hello

I'm new to the site but not new to the thinkpad series. I own a t60 and a w530.

I only bought the w530 because of an offer at my school(for solidworks) where we get to buy in rates without interest, otherwise I couldnt afford anything as expensive.

Okay here goes the w520 must (hopefully) be a good alternative to the w530.

first the cons of w530:
the w530 is absolute crap, they(lenovo) have even broken the thinkpad signature 'rubberized' lid surface with a lenovo sticker(!?) logo, oh yes the letters have already fallen off and left a big lenovo shaped blob in shiny plastic on the lid (it's insane) .
The screen on my t60 is much better the w530 screen is full of weird spots as soon as you move 50 cm off center.
The new chiclet keyboard looks and feels cheap and is very tiring to type on, it doesnt even come close being 1% as good as the normal thinkpad keyboard.

I only use my w530 for schoolwork and keep it packed away in a cheapo sleave when not using it, it doesnt feel good to handle it, theres almost nothing good to say about it, if lenovo keeps going in this direction the brand thinkpad is DEAD.
It makes my very sad that I was forced to buy this expensive load of crap and that I have to look at it every day.

the pros:
It runs solidworks resonably well, but havn't rendered anything big yet so lets wait and see.

The gigant powerbrick have enabled lenovo to keep the weight and heat development to a minimum, its not much thicker than my t60 and I'm fantasising about where lenovo could go if they were more conservative designwise.
I still have a week to decide whether I want it or not and I'm seriously considering getting a w520 instead.

Anybody out there running solidworks 2012-2013 on a w520 that has some feedback concerning heat and stability? Or other machines with the quadro series gpu?

Glad to let out some steam over this crime done to the only real laptop brand.

Ciao F.

sumperfresh wrote: the w530 is absolute crap, they(lenovo) have even broken the thinkpad signature 'rubberized' lid surface with a lenovo sticker(!?) logo, oh yes the letters have already fallen off and left a big lenovo shaped blob in shiny plastic on the lid (it's insane)

Yes, what a crime. True, the lid logo has been a sticker for the last decade, but if only IBM were still around, *their* sticker was much better, right?

sumperfresh wrote: the w530 is absolute crap, they(lenovo) have even broken the thinkpad signature 'rubberized' lid surface with a lenovo sticker(!?) logo, oh yes the letters have already fallen off and left a big lenovo shaped blob in shiny plastic on the lid (it's insane)

Isn't the letters that fell off, just some of the plastic that protect the laptop agaisnt marks until use?

And ive heard that the new chiclet keyboard is just as good as the old one, but the problem being the placement of the keys?

Anyone have any experience with the new M4700? It looks like the IPS screen is a $50 add-on (?!?!?!) over stock. $1100 gets you a dual-core w/ IPS, and $1339 gets a quad-core w/ IPS.

I was all set to get another W520 from the outlet, but having just used my FHD screen for a few days (for the first time - it always stays on the desk), the screen is just downright awful compared to my IPS desktop or iPad.

The m4700 looks like the best alternative to the W530 if you want IPS (& 4 memory slots). I wager that Lenovo will have an IPS option on the W540... or W550... they seem slow on the uptake. People are starting to demand good screens.... FINALLY!

-Dan

plympton wrote:I was all set to get another W520 from the outlet, but having just used my FHD screen for a few days (for the first time - it always stays on the desk), the screen is just downright awful compared to my IPS desktop or iPad.

Everyone has their own use cases and opinions... I have a W520 with FHD from work and spend about 10 hours a week (1 work day) sitting at my desk at home using this display right in front of the HP ZR24W 24 inch 1920x1200 S-IPS panel and I can definitively say that for software development work in IDE's, web browsing, etc the W520 FHD panel is not awful. It's actually quite good for those purposes and I typically don't notice much of a difference for those tasks mentioned. It may very well be awful for other use cases, but that seems very harsh to me to say it is awful in general without qualification.

wolfman wrote:... but that seems very harsh to me to say it is awful in general without qualification.

Well, I *DID* say it was awful compared to my iPad, not by itself. My LP2475w is my IPS on my desktop, so I'm a bit IPS-spoiled. I find the contrast to be really low at non-eye-searing brightness levels - that's my biggest beef. At full brightness it's usable contrast-wise, but like I said, eye-searing.

I'm also debating on an X220/X230, they're relatively cheap, and I could pick up a 27" IPS display with the difference. I just can't get over the 1366x768 resolution at the moment (I do Visual Studio development, and have 2-4 copies of the IDE loaded, SQL MGMT Studio, an app window, folder windows, etc... gets a tad crowded)

-Dan

ThinkRob wrote:Yes, what a crime. True, the lid logo has been a sticker for the last decade, but if only IBM were still around, *their* sticker was much better, right?

In that there was just the one, yes. No need to roll your eyes about that.