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Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

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Bub McZombieFace
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Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#1 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:58 pm

I keep trying them out only to be disappointed that I'm not able to figure out what other people make so look easy. I did like the gamers Linux and am glad I burnt it to try it as a live DVD, but I didn't want that to be my OS by far. I'm loving ubuntu in general and have tried it several times. One big thing is when ever I've tried the last three new versions of it. When, I update the third party driver for my ATi graphics it fails. The "snap to" like function is uninstalled when you do the actual updates. I know some of the -'s of linux, but what are some more +'s like the idea of it being open. Which is my main motivation.
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#2 Post by killer » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:14 pm

Maybe this posting should be in the Linux forum? Hopefully the mods will move it so that you get the best response. :)
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#3 Post by Thomcat » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:48 pm

The reason I'm dualbooting Linux is that there is very little risk of viruses or malware AND the resulting speed. A big reason for the speed is that I do not have to use a realtime virus or malware scanner. I also install it on family members' computers so that they don't come crying to me to 'fix' their computer when their desktop goes to hell.

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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#4 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:11 am

Which distro do you usually run?
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#5 Post by ThinkRob » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:44 am

For me, the biggest selling point is that I know I can depend on my machine to just work. I run Debian, so that means that I get a stable system that I can configure the way I want and then leave it alone without fear of some update breaking things. I can customize the UI to look and work exactly the way that I want, which makes me more productive.

There's also the issue of licensing. Despite writing commercially-used software for a living, I think that restrictive software licensing is generally a bad practice that's had an overwhelmingly negative impact on the industry. So I avoid it. That doesn't mean that other people should, and it's not a reason that I'd give for why someone else should use GNU/Linux, but it is an important issue for me.
Need help with Linux or FreeBSD? PM or catch me on IRC: I'm ThinkRob on FreeNode and EFnet.
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#6 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:57 pm

I really enjoy the idea of open source software. Some of my favorite programs are totally free, and that's my motivation for using ubuntu.
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#7 Post by automobus » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:24 pm

I really enjoy the idea of free software. I also enjoy free, quality documentation. But I myself do not much appreciate the source code.

Ubuntu was nice in 2006, but sadly, I do not like the direction toward which the "Ubuntu train" is headed. I settled on Debian Stable a couple years ago. I boot-up Wary Puppy often.

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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#8 Post by hlaj » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:15 pm

Bub McZombieFace wrote: but what are some more +'s like the idea of it being open.
Linux is

*fast

It's used often for supercomputing (90% marketshare), but making it fast takes some configuration

*scalable

good support for clustering, networking, virtualization and so forth

*enterprise worthy

of IBM's biggest z-Series servers 28% or more (as of 2008 with projections of up to 50% within 5 years) of their workloads consist of z-Linux workloads
Their high-performance p-series is running AIX (another unix) usually, but can also run linux
IBM along with other large market players took up Linux in a big way in the early 2000s and
a certain segment of their software and consulting is devoted to supporting linux and linux workloads.

Overall, the server market and the webserver market especially is dominated
by linux and its LAMP stack.

*ubiquitous and small resource footprint

It's in smartphones, tablets, netbooks, ebook readers, toasters and smart
appliances, and all kinds of gadgets and smart tools
As a result it will run easily on old hardware, and use almost none of your
resources on new hardware so that you can devote your machine to
applications and not the operating system itself.

*Cutting edge

contains the latest features and good new device support
Patches to problems also come out much faster than other operating
systems which enhances its security and there are frequent updates
containing both fixes to problems and new features.

*Freedom

It's the flagship kernel of the free software foundation.
Many organizations appreciate how they don't have to wait for
an unreliable or defunct vendor to fix their software when it breaks.

*No cost

*Excellent community support

This is my reason for sticking with linux since I first heard about it.
For your ATI driver problem, there is probably a fix post on a message board
or if not, there are very talented people willing to work with you to resolve it for free
as a desktop user.


===============================================

However, I'm not sure if any of these +s apply to you with your T500.
Even with Windows, there is occasional driver troubleshooting.
Apple's computers have the advantage of not having to do any configuration
to get it to work, and they are based on a fork of FreeBSD, which is itself
a type of BSD unix. However, they do this by locking you into certain hardware and
software choices where they preresolve all the possible problems.
Many people don't mind because they don't want to spend any time with
configuration or thinking about their computer. Linux is still not for this kind of person.

While the Linux Desktop and Linux desktop distributions have become substantially easier to the point where I believe it is at least as easy to use as Windows, there still might be
some residual configuration to do in certain cases.

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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#9 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:16 am

You said it best with "Many people don't mind because they don't want to spend any time with configuration or thinking about their computer." I am hands on with every thing. I really never understood how people are so comfortable with ignorance. As for my PC, I love trying out OS's. I have had many distro's on my box, but it's hard to find a favorite with so many options. I love when a forum that has so many great communicating, knowledgeable people. Thank you very much for all the info.
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#10 Post by hlaj » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:16 pm

Bub McZombieFace wrote:You said it best with "Many people don't mind because they don't want to spend any time with configuration or thinking about their computer." I am hands on with every thing. I really never understood how people are so comfortable with ignorance. As for my PC, I love trying out OS's. I have had many distro's on my box, but it's hard to find a favorite with so many options. I love when a forum that has so many great communicating, knowledgeable people. Thank you very much for all the info.
You're welcome Bub :)

Also, I didn't mean to imply that you were the sort of person who avoids configuration, or
that there is anything wrong with not wanting to troubleshoot problems like driver issues.
I agree that this can be a minus for many people.
Many people are not tinkerers and would prefer to spend their time on important problems
like writing great software, or spend their time with their families or other hobbies.
For example, XKCD's author who is a cult geek figure today
thinks that editing his xorg.conf file (graphical desktop configuration file--perhaps the answer to your ATI problem) is inversely related to happiness:
http://www.explainxkcd.com/2011/10/12/x11/

So-called creative people as well as business people, (non-computer) professionals and any number of other computer users, prefer to spend their time doing what they love and not so much time thinking about their computer and I think that's fine. For the most part people just want something that works and won't give them troubles. It makes no difference to them what the operating system is as long as they can accomplish what they need to without too much fuss. I think for them, not having any problems is a good thing in that they will then enjoy their computers more and maybe someday want to learn more about them.

However, thinkpads have a reputation for nearly 100% hardware support in linux,
which is why so many linux users gravitate towards them and why I was briefly considering
acquiring one last week. I would be very surprised if your driver issue has not been solved
elsewhere due to the fact that you have a thinkpad and so many other linux users have
probably encountered the same issue and found the solution.

As to ignorance, we all have it and all have various amounts of toleration of it.
Even the linux kernel contains millions of lines of code (11.4 million at last count).
No one person can read or understand all of it completely.
The main modern book describing only the API to the kernel system calls
is 1500 pages of hard but rewarding reading:
http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Programming ... 1593272200

The source code for the kernel plus userland is conservatively a few gigabytes compressed.
No one person will read much less study all of it in his or her lifetime. In my opinion,
the last time unix was comprehensible as a whole was the so-called 7th Edition of Unix from 1979
where the kernel code was only about 100 pages long and could be studied along with the userland, manuals, whitepapers, and various other writings of the creators like the famous K&R C book.

To make the situation more complicated, linux is in constant flux trying new approaches,
solving the same problem in different ways, and creating numerous alternative applications.
BSD is much more stable in its code base and it's maintainers are much more conservative
in what they allow to be committed with the extreme case being OpenBSD.
All modern unixes are somewhat humbling due to their complexity
and the complexity of the mostly GNU userland but Linux especially so.
Which is just to say that linux is extremely powerful (and there are competitive advantages to having this power) but also somewhat harder to learn, and something that will never be completely
mastered in all its aspects. Since there are so many additional worthy things to know about,
even among computer hobbyists (for example the ardunio is very fun!), I think that the greatest appeal of linux must be to the systems hacker hobbyist.

I say this not to discourage you or anyone else--far from it--but just to let you know the
type of beast linux is. It's a wild, sprawling, free-wheeling, high-performance, stable, infinitely tweakable and adaptable, somewhat innovative fork of unix under the aegis of benevolent dictators with inputs from big business, scientists, software companies free software hackers, governments, IT admins, and academia from every part of the world.

It's not the best operating system or even the best one that anyone has
thought of (for example the LISP systems of the 1980s were better but died the early
painful death of all proprietary operating systems) and perhaps it's not as well suited to some people's tastes as BSD or Apple's version of it, but many people think it's good enough to spend their time at, and I think many people can enjoy using it. Once one tastes some of the power it gives versus operating systems like windows, it becomes almost impossible to ever run windows seriously again.

Best of luck!

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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#11 Post by rumbero » Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:59 pm

hlaj wrote:Once one tastes some of the power it gives versus operating systems like windows, it becomes almost impossible to ever run windows seriously again.
Words of wisdom! I fully agree with that observation. Been there, still doing it. ;)
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#12 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:27 pm

Now, that was a good read. I really started getting determined to use it after finding Lightweight Portable Security. I guess if Linux is good enough for the Dept. of Defense than I should dig around the web more, until I find a good fit.
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#13 Post by Brian10161 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:49 pm

Hey there Bub, just going to post some of my experience with different distros.

Currently I'm running Fedora 14 on my T400s and all is working perfectly. I actually prefer running 14 to the newer versions because of GNOME 2. Can't stand the new version of GNOME :(

Mint - Another distro that I have run quite a bit. This OS seems very compatible with a majority of hardware. Never really had an issue with hardware compatibility on Mint.

Debian - Currently running this on my work X31. Again, all hardware working perfectly including full wireless functionality.

Slackware - I have messed around with this OS a bit and had some trouble getting hardware working. In the end it all worked, but like I said it took some time.

You can check out http://www.distrowatch.com/ for different distros to check out. That's part of the fun, checking out different versions :)
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#14 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:23 pm

I have heard a couple people say that the new Gnome is not very good. Could you clarify what the problem it has?
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#15 Post by Neil » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:00 pm

There is stuff literally all over the web about why Gnome 3 is bad...for example:

http://www.bohemianalps.com/blog/2011/0 ... h-gnome-3/

And probably just as much about why it's great. Such as:

http://blog.yorba.org/jim/2011/08/why-i ... shell.html

I happen to be in the don't much like it camp. But in the world of Linux, the great thing about it is, if you don't like something...don't use it...use something else. Right now, the only distro I'm using full time is Aptosid XFCE.

It's like walking into an ice cream store with 51 flavors...you probably won't like all 51 flavors, but since they're free, you are welcome to try them all. When you find one you really like, you can just stick with that one, or try some of the others again. If you like one flavor more than another, it doesn't mean it's bad. Some one else is going to like the flavors you don't like. So they are all good (to some one)!
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#16 Post by Brian10161 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:00 pm

Bub McZombieFace wrote:I have heard a couple people say that the new Gnome is not very good. Could you clarify what the problem it has?
I'm just not crazy about the new layout of the UI. Rather than having to customize it to make it look like GNOME 2 I just run GNOME 2 :)

I prefer the menu system of GNOME 2. I'm a bit of a Linux newb so I prefer things to more or less be the way I want them out of the box and GNOME 2 is like that for me.
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#17 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:22 pm

So, can I set up a RAID on ubuntu?
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#18 Post by ThinkRob » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:00 pm

Bub McZombieFace wrote:So, can I set up a RAID on ubuntu?
Yes.
Need help with Linux or FreeBSD? PM or catch me on IRC: I'm ThinkRob on FreeNode and EFnet.
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Workstation: owned by my employer ;)
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Re: Got a T500 and would really like to try using Linux, but...

#19 Post by Bub McZombieFace » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:59 pm

Will you show me how? I just get lost with all the options on format. I have wubi installed and ran live, but I am not an advanced Linux user.
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