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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:30 am 
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davidhbrown wrote:
I hadn't downloaded the May 8 package because it said "PCI Express," but I see that in the notes they include the notebook version. I will give that a try and report back.

Just rebooted after installing the May 8 driver package. The properties of the device still show the March 4 date (version 6.10.0.201).

I'm now allowing the auto-update to install its full package of bloatware... even things I'm sure I won't use, like minidisc recording... see if anything changes after that...

Well, it wants another restart. I did notice that it got set back to microphone-level input. Still no apparent way to change that from the Recording devices CP nor is there a "What you hear" item. I'll post now and edit if a reboot turns up anything very interesting.


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:43 am 
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This is getting a bit far away from anything specific to the ThinkPad, but I wanted to briefly mention that I just tried transferring an LP using the microphone input of the X-Fi notebook. (Yes, I know all about the RIAA curve, capacitive coupling of the input, and all that... but it seemed worth a shot considering the cost of a good phono preamp.) The sound -- despite requesting stereo in Audacity and seeing nothing to the contrary in control panels or Creative's softare -- is quite evidently mono.

I was able to get something barely usable by recording in 24-bit line-level and then normalizing (and applying the inverse RIAA curve), but it looks like a real preamp will be required.

More of a concern for anyone planning to use this for live recordings is that you'll apparently need an external microphone preamp and you'll want to select the line-level input. Or record in mono -- it appears (just by looking at the waveforms) that the microphone mode takes just the left channel from the jack. This appears to match the behavior of the onboard input.


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 Post subject: USB Sound Cards
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:22 pm 
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eecon wrote:

I tried several USB based sound cards with no luck and Creative's Audigy PCMCIA card is incompatible with the X61 and T61's Ricoh PCMCIA Bus Controller.

As for USB solutions, you name it and I tried it (unsucessfully).

eecon wrote:
Lenovo has indicated on their own community forum that the SoundMax Stereo Mix on the X61/T61 units is hardware crippled and that it can not be re-enabled by a software fix, so I seriously doubt this software driver update will do the trick.


I've been following this thread ever since I discovered my R61 didn't have "stereo mix" on the recording control panel (about 6 hours after I fired it up back in February).

I've stumbeld accross something that might be a solution for some of the readers of this thread.

I was looking for a recording solution (stereo line-in) for my new Lenovo R61 (XP Pro build, which also has the crippled SoundMAX audio software) and I ordered Startech's ICUSBAUDIO device because the tech guy said the mic input was also a stereo line-in (which was false - it's only a mono mic input).

All that to say this:
The drivers that are shipped with the USB audio device enable stereo mix recording! If you can hear it, you can record it - in stereo! The only hitch is that you have to have the USB audio device plugged in (like a dongle) to activate the drivers and enable the stereo mix.

I've tried it with Audacity and MyMp3 and it works just like the old T43 did (out of the box of course). You can record streaming audio for future playback using this $20 USB sound card and it's associated drivers (on the accompanying CD).

If you want to "enable" stereo mix recording on your crippled Lenovo laptop, there appears to be a USB sound card solution that works.

I purchased the product from ANTOnline (via Amazon) for $15 plus shipping. Here's the link to the manufacturers website.

www.startech.com/item/ICUSBAUDIO-USB-20 ... apter.aspx

By the way, the latest Lenovo drivers did nothing (except permanently enable the on board microphone - you can't even mute the thing! - I rolled back to the original driver, I don't use the mic anyway)

Now I still need to find that stereo line-in solution........ In the meantime I have the ability to capture steaming audio on my Lenovo laptop.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Sound Cards
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:48 pm 
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match_point wrote:
All that to say this:
The drivers that are shipped with the USB audio device enable stereo mix recording! If you can hear it, you can record it - in stereo! ...

I've tried it with Audacity and MyMp3 and it works just like the old T43 did (out of the box of course). You can record streaming audio for future playback using this $20 USB sound card and it's associated drivers (on the accompanying CD).

If you want to "enable" stereo mix recording on your crippled Lenovo laptop, there appears to be a USB sound card solution that works.


OMG I hope others try this soon, would love to hear more experiences with it. (Maybe should post it on Lenovo's forums too?) I'd want to order it before they have a chance to change any of the drivers it comes with! I have an x61, but as far as I know the only diff as far as this problem is that the x61 doesn't have an ExpressCard/54 slot (or true /34 available via adaptor -- it can use USB only), so the xi-fi workaround wasn't an option for it...

match_point wrote:
By the way, the latest Lenovo drivers did nothing (except permanently enable the on board microphone - you can't even mute the thing! - I rolled back to the original driver, I don't use the mic anyway)


That's weird, why would they do that? Did anyone hear anyone complaining about whatever the original issue was that this driver was supposed to fix?? Also, the always-on mic thing sounds like one of the unwanted side effects some people had with the xi-fi workaround. That seems somehow weird to me also.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Sound Cards
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:05 pm 
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match_point wrote:
I've been following this thread ever since I discovered my R61 didn't have "stereo mix" on the recording control panel (about 6 hours after I fired it up back in February).

I've stumbeld accross something that might be a solution for some of the readers of this thread.

I was looking for a recording solution (stereo line-in) for my new Lenovo R61 (XP Pro build, which also has the crippled SoundMAX audio software) and I ordered Startech's ICUSBAUDIO device because the tech guy said the mic input was also a stereo line-in (which was false - it's only a mono mic input).

All that to say this:
The drivers that are shipped with the USB audio device enable stereo mix recording! If you can hear it, you can record it - in stereo! The only hitch is that you have to have the USB audio device plugged in (like a dongle) to activate the drivers and enable the stereo mix.

I've tried it with Audacity and MyMp3 and it works just like the old T43 did (out of the box of course). You can record streaming audio for future playback using this $20 USB sound card and it's associated drivers (on the accompanying CD).

If you want to "enable" stereo mix recording on your crippled Lenovo laptop, there appears to be a USB sound card solution that works.

I purchased the product from ANTOnline (via Amazon) for $15 plus shipping. Here's the link to the manufacturers website.

www.startech.com/item/ICUSBAUDIO-USB-20 ... apter.aspx

By the way, the latest Lenovo drivers did nothing (except permanently enable the on board microphone - you can't even mute the thing! - I rolled back to the original driver, I don't use the mic anyway)

Now I still need to find that stereo line-in solution........ In the meantime I have the ability to capture steaming audio on my Lenovo laptop.


Do you also see a "stereo mix" selection on the WinXP Recording Control Panel when USB device is plugged in and activated?

This is a nice discovery .... BTW, wonder if it will also work with Vista?

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 Post subject: Re: USB Sound Cards
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:37 am 
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eecon wrote:

Do you also see a "stereo mix" selection on the WinXP Recording Control Panel when USB device is plugged in and activated?

This is a nice discovery .... BTW, wonder if it will also work with Vista?


The "stereo mix" in the WinXP recording control panel only shows up when the device is plugged in. If you unplug the device, you lose the "stereo mix" option on the recording control panel. If I was misleading, I didn't intend to imply that the drivers ressurect "stereo mix" through the soundMAX chipset.

I'm not sure of all routing's of a digital audio signal on a motherboard/soundcard but the chipset on the USB sound card (and it's associated drivers) do enable you to record the "stereo mix" (hence you can successfully record streaming audio)

I don't know anyone with a Vista build on a lenovo *61 laptop so I can't speak to it's effectiveness on a Vista machine.

One note, the manufacturer says the device is plug and play in XP but the "stereo mix" capability doesn't show up if you just plug the unit in and let it "self install". You must install the drivers included on the packaged CD.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Sound Cards
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:21 am 
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match_point wrote:
The "stereo mix" in the WinXP recording control panel only shows up when the device is plugged in. If you unplug the device, you lose the "stereo mix" option on the recording control panel. If I was misleading, I didn't intend to imply that the drivers ressurect "stereo mix" through the soundMAX chipset.

I'm not sure of all routing's of a digital audio signal on a motherboard/soundcard but the chipset on the USB sound card (and it's associated drivers) do enable you to record the "stereo mix" (hence you can successfully record streaming audio)

I don't know anyone with a Vista build on a lenovo *61 laptop so I can't speak to it's effectiveness on a Vista machine.

One note, the manufacturer says the device is plug and play in XP but the "stereo mix" capability doesn't show up if you just plug the unit in and let it "self install". You must install the drivers included on the packaged CD.

As I stated earlier, this is a nice discovery on your part for XP users ..... hope to hear soon from any Vista users regarding this workaround.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:33 am 
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That's all I need match point, I just didn't like not having this ability at all in my brand new machine that I hope to keep and be reasonably satisfied with for many years to come. I'm going to order this thing today (I have Amazon "Prime" so I can get it for $18 and change, shipping included). I figure I can't lose really because there is also a laptop in the family that could sorely use the volume and sound quality boost many users said this device gives. Lots of positive reviews out there, including at newegg. Thanks for taking the time to post this! :) (Oh and if you happen to start having any driver conflicts or that kind of thing, please update.)

But I have XP also so I won't be able to attest to the Vista piece. There was so much interest in this matter for so long that if it were posted on the Lenovo forums I'm sure some would be eager to give it a shot, especially at this price. The store locator link at the manufacturer's site shows that it can also be found at local stores like Radio Shack, so could probably be returned if it didn't work with Vista, without paying two shipping charges (tho not the best price out there to begin with, still cheaper than round-trip shipping, and a possible restock charge).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:31 pm 
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STEREO MIX WORKS ON T61p....

After fiddle around with this for a while (I mean a long while-months), I finally get the stereo mix working on my T61p.

current configs:
Machine: T61p, OS: Vista U SP1 with latest update
Sound card driver: analogDevices 6.10.1.5510

Tested with Audacity 1.3 Beta version

Steps:
1. Modify Registry: (Please be careful in doing this as it can destroy your computer.)
a. run regedit, then click on HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
b. then do a Find for all AD1984
c. Go into Disable folder in the left, then change both MicBP and OutR to 00 (not disable)
d. You should find at least 2 to 3 places to modify this key. On my computer, I have to modified them in CurrentControlSet, CurrentControlSet1, and CurrentControlSet3.
e. Restart your computer

2. After restart, right click on your speaker icon on the taskbar and choose Recording Devices. If you don't see the Stereo Mix listed, then right click on the Microphone and selected "Show Disabled Devices" and Show Disconnected Devices". You should see the Stereo Mix in the list now.
(IF YOU STILL DON'T SEE IT, THEN MY FOLLOWING STEPS WON'T HELP YOU. YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO STEREO MIX THEN.)

3. ONLY DO THE FOLLOWING IF YOU SEE STEREO MIX DISPLAYED IN STEP 2. Modify your speaker setting
a. Click on the Playback tab, and then Properties.
b. click on the Levels tab of Speakers properties
c. On the speaker icon of Microphone you should see a red stop sign next to it. That means it is disabled. Please click on that icon to enable it. I also move the bar to over 50 so I can hear it. :)

4. READY FOR SOME MIXING:
a. Go back to your Recording tab, Stereo Mix should have been displayed with an arrowed pointed down, while your Microphone is displayed with an green check and "Working"
b. Right click on your MIcrophone and select Disabled
c. Right click on your Stereo Mix and select Enabled.
d. Now you should SEE YOUR MICROPHONE WITH AN ARROW DOWN, WHILE THE STEREO MIX WITH A GREEN CHECK AND "Working" c. Also, the little volume bar next to Stereo Mix should moving up and down as it picks up signal from your computer.

YOU ARE NOW READY FOR STEREO MIXING.

4. testing out.
a. I just use audacity, and in my recording option in Preferences, the stereo mix showed up. I select that and then start recording. You can use your own recording software to try it.


HOPE THIS WILL WORK FOR EVERYONE.[/b]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:23 pm 
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The card in the t61p, must be slightly different.
This isn't the first time that someone with a t61p has said they were able to get stereo mix working.

Tested and its still recording just from the microphone.

& i did in fact find it under currentcontrolset & controlset003 & 002

just out of curiosity, when you have stereo mix selected, if you mute the microphone under speakers in playback, and play an mp3 for eg. do you see the level meter moving in stereo mix?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:55 pm 
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When the microphone is muted in the speakers properties, the level is not moving. Therefore, no recording.

HT>

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:00 pm 
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Thanks, hng123! I'm not sure how to interpret this, but after following your procedure, under the Recording tab on my T61p, I have Stereo Mix showing. If I play a tune in Media Player, I see the level indicator varying to the right.

As a test, I tried the combination of Creedence in iTunes and Splash Dance SE in the DVD player. I opened the volume mixer and tweaked it so I could hear the audio from both. I then started Windows Sound Recorder and recorded a couple of minutes of this unholy mess. What was recorded followed the volume sliders in the mixer.

So I have at least a "what you hear" mix functionality now.

Both the internal microphone and an external mic work and can be used with Windows Recorder. I haven't been successful adding a voice-over to an existing tune playing on the ThinkPad yet, but I'll continue to play around with it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:39 pm 
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OK. Downloaded Audacity, and using it, I can use an external microphone to overlay a voice over music playing on the T61p. This seems to be some progress. This TP is running Vista Home Premium 32 bit SP 1, by the way.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:00 am 
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Interesting - Anyone try it on XP yet?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:07 pm 
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After a reboot, the microphone was enabled and stereo mix disabled. Right clicking the mic and selecting disable enabled stereo mix. I then used Windows Recorder to record a few minutes of internet radio.

So hng123's procedure

- allows recording of two audio sources playing at the same time
- allows recording of audio source playing on the notebook and sound from external microphone
- allows recording of internet radio
- implements recording of "what you hear"

hng123, you deserve a hearty well done, and thank you for sharing this with all of us.

Now, the next question is whether the USB audio adapter mentioned by match_point enables stereo line-in in Vista on the T61p.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:33 pm 
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SafeHarbor wrote:
So hng123's procedure

- allows recording of two audio sources playing at the same time
- allows recording of audio source playing on the notebook and sound from external microphone
- allows recording of internet radio
- implements recording of "what you hear"

hng123, you deserve a hearty well done, and thank you for sharing this with all of us.

Now, the next question is whether the USB audio adapter mentioned by match_point enables stereo line-in in Vista on the T61p.


...that is, if you have the p model. To those who don't the question is whether match_point's procedure also works with Vista on T61 generally (in my case, actually hoping x61); and also, per DrTigerLilly's post above, whether hng123's procedure might only work on the p variety. (But regardless, it's great of course that these things were discovered and shared, so at least some people will be able to regain this ability.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Do the other models mentioned here, the X61, the R61, and the T61, all share the same AD1984 chipset? Are all these other ThinkPads using the Analog Devices 6.10.1.5510 driver?

I did some Googling around and found a page that listed

- MicBP as "microphone boost"

- OutR as "disable stereo mix"

It was talking about the AD1986 chipset, but the 1984 is probably similar.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Mine uses the same chipset, altho I have a different and not latest driver. I think between this thread and the Lenovo forums one, a few models have been identified to have the same issue caused by the same card. But, I haven't read all of either, pretty much jumped around and skimmed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:04 pm 
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my question is this....if you're recording w/ the microphone turned on, isn't it just recording from the mic, and not actually capturing the audio that is coming from the speakers.

even by hng123's admission if the microphone is muted, you don't see the stereo mix level moving...when you play music...so is it a true stereo mix?

If its doing what you guys need it to do though congrats.

I'm trying to determine if its a true stereo mix, or its just that it doesn't work on the x61 tablet

semiclue wrote:
Mine uses the same chipset, altho I have a different and not latest driver. I think between this thread and the Lenovo forums one, a few models have been identified to have the same issue caused by the same card. But, I haven't read all of either, pretty much jumped around and skimmed.


It was Mark from Lenovo, that intonated that all the 61 series used the ad1984 chipset, but as i mentioned before, there have been other t61p users who've gotten stereo mix to work...maybe there are subtle nuances between them


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:45 pm 
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I agree with tigerlilly. Maybe the mic is recording instead of going through the sound card. If you use headphones does music still get recorded? Why not post a snippit of the sound somewhere so we can listen.
DRTigerlilly wrote:
semiclue wrote:
Note from Admin: Removed excessive, nested quoting.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Just for clarification, I have followed and tried this same procedure before and nothing worked.

There are some issues I encounter over this weekend. the stereo mix is always working since I discover it. However, my mic phone recording is acting up now.

I'm responsible for recording music and sermon at my church. This weekend, I can only use the stereo mix option, but not the mic.

I'll have to play with it some more to figure out why it causes some issue with my Micro phone recording...

As far as my stereo mix recording, it only works when I <b>Disable</b> microphone and <b><i>Enabled</b></i>Stereo mix option. So there is no question about whether it is coming from the microphone. Besides, if it is recording from microphone, the quality is so bad that you would be able to recognize it right away.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:19 am 
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Well I tried the procedure with my t61p and
1. The microphone stopped working as it did with you.
2. The "stereo mix" was merely recording from the internal microphone even though the microphone wasn't set up as the default audio. I could see this because the recording would go away when I put in my headset. Also keyboard sounds would come through the microphone.
The recording of the stereo mix, if working, would sound like the original music recording. If it sounds tinny and with less bass then it is probably the microphone. If you can post some of the music, especially if it has bass, we could tell.

hng123 wrote:
Just for clarification, I have followed and tried this same procedure before and nothing worked.

There are some issues I encounter over this weekend. the stereo mix is always working since I discover it. However, my mic phone recording is acting up now.

I'm responsible for recording music and sermon at my church. This weekend, I can only use the stereo mix option, but not the mic.

I'll have to play with it some more to figure out why it causes some issue with my Micro phone recording...

As far as my stereo mix recording, it only works when I <b>Disable</b> microphone and <b><i>Enabled</b></i>Stereo mix option. So there is no question about whether it is coming from the microphone. Besides, if it is recording from microphone, the quality is so bad that you would be able to recognize it right away.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:57 am 
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SafeHarbor wrote:
Do the other models mentioned here, the X61, the R61, and the T61, all share the same AD1984 chipset? Are all these other ThinkPads using the Analog Devices 6.10.1.5510 driver?


My T61 does - both the chip and the driver version.

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:23 am 
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To clarify how I tested, I started the sound source on the TP using the internal speakers. Then I plugged in external speakers with the volume turned all the way down. I could see the level indicator varying with the music source. Then I plugged in a (cheapie) external microphone and used Windows Recorder to record a short phrase. It certainly was not re-recording what was playing through the speakers. I think I need to get a better microphone to truly check this.

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:38 am 
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Here's a link to a sound file of Windows Media Player playing on the T611p with me saying a test phrase into an external microphone. This is a really bad microphone that I got free a few years ago when buying something else.

This file is 1.1 MB:

http://www.kudzumonthly.com/mapopolis/stereomixtpf.wav

And a correction - I recorded this using Audacity, not Windows Recorder. Windows Recorder will apparently default to recording the microphone when an external mic is plugged in.

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:13 pm 
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if the stereo mix is a true stereo mix, you should be able to record music w/ the stereo mix feature while you have headphones/earphones plugged in and as SafeHarbor mentioned it sound like the original recording.

To me anything else is just recording from the internal mic.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:50 pm 
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DRTigerlilly wrote:
if the stereo mix is a true stereo mix, you should be able to record music w/ the stereo mix feature while you have headphones/earphones plugged in and as SafeHarbor mentioned it sound like the original recording.

To me anything else is just recording from the internal mic.


Right you are .... especially while recording internet music as the true test. However, be sure to delete any recorded internet music after using it for testing purposes (so as to appease the RIAA).

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:57 pm 
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Well, guys, if two sound applications are playing and both are recorded, is that stereo mix effect or some sort of virtualization by the volume mixer?

Actually, I'm getting a perfect recording of internet radio using Windows Sound Recorder. I'm well satisfied with that.

The problem I'm having with using the external microphone with Audacity to overlay music is that I have yet to figure out how to set the microphone volume level. Even WITH the microphone enabled, I don't get the mic volume in the volume mixer like I do on my media center PC.

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T61p 6459-CTO, 2.2 gHz C2D, 7K320, 2x1 GB, Wifi BGN, Windows 8 Pro
R52 8595RU, 1.73 gHz, 2x1 GB, 30 GB, Wifi AG, XP Pro SP3
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:11 pm 
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i'm becoming more convinced the t61p is slightly different, i haven't been able to record internet audio.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:59 pm 
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SafeHarbor wrote:
The problem I'm having with using the external microphone with Audacity to overlay music is that I have yet to figure out how to set the microphone volume level. Even WITH the microphone enabled, I don't get the mic volume in the volume mixer like I do on my media center PC.

Maybe the ICUSBAUDIO device match_point mentioned for the other purpose could help there! Of the things said about it in reviews, more volume and sound quality were commonly among them. Inexpensive to find out at least.

Speaking of that, if you're reading match_point, can you test out whether it's actually recording speaker output? (I did order it but it may be awhile before I install it replete with drivers. New machine, torturing it with lots of other things first!)

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