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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:45 am 
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Nick Y wrote:
Out of interest, does the same problem with audio present itself on the X300 series? I did a search in the X300 forum, but nothing obvious there to answer this.


I believe it only afflicks the T61 or T61p, X61 or X61p and the newest R series, but there could be more.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:16 am 
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Checking the x300 specs it does use the same card

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/t ... ndcard.jpg

it is interesting however that it says it allows "system sound mixing"

Someone who has an x300 needs to test their system out & see if it has stereo mix or not. I might be a slight variation in the soundcards.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:32 pm 
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DRTigerlilly wrote:
match_point wrote:
Do you also see a "stereo mix" selection on the WinXP Recording Control Panel when USB device is plugged in and activated?

This is a nice discovery .... BTW, wonder if it will also work with Vista?


Re Startech's ICUSBAUDIO My friend bought it to use on his Dell XPS that he has dual booted w/ OS X, and whereas he has the sigmatel 9220 card which has stereo mix, This card doesn't have Stereo Mix in Vista :(

Dr. T, when you say "This card doesn't have stereo mix in Vista," are you referring to the Sigmatel card, or the Startech? Wasn't sure if the above addressed the question of whether the Startech works in Vista, or was just mentioning that some Vista results would be forthcoming since your friend is getting one.

Just want to make sure I have it straight for if I run into others who could use the info (although I don't know how broadly one result from one particular model would be considered to apply). Thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:01 pm 
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I meant the Startech, The Sigmatel has stereo mix in XP, but not in Vista. (unless you supposedly run the xp drivers in compatibility mode in Vista)

So i bought my own Startech card for use w/ an outside project (dual boot w/ OS X) and here are my findings.

IN VISTA:

If you try to install the drivers from the disk by default, it fails and tells you its not for this platform. If you try to install via xp compatibility mode it installs...stereo mix and appears...and then it crashes vista :(

You're advised to run Windows Update, and when you do, it removes stereo mix, and installs a generic usb driver :cry:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:38 pm 
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I honestly don't understand what the issue here is. I have NEVER had anything called STEREO MIX on any Thinkpad I've owned going back 9 years. If I want to record something streaming like a youtube video (audio only) I go to the recording control panel and select WAVE as the source. I usually have it set to LINE IN since that is how I get external signal into the computer. This is how it works on the Soundmax equipped A31 and X32, as well as the T20 all of which have Windows XP. The X60T with Vista has very few options for recording or playback. If you make a change, it changes it back. It's kind of retarded. Frankly I can't find any modern Vista loaded computer with a Line IN which is why I continue to use the older Thinkpads for work (although recently I picked up a MOTU 8Pre which has 8 MIC/ LINE inputs on Firewire).

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:16 am 
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proaudioguy wrote:
I honestly don't understand what the issue here is. I have NEVER had anything called STEREO MIX on any Thinkpad I've owned going back 9 years. If I want to record something streaming like a youtube video (audio only) I go to the recording control panel and select WAVE as the source. I usually have it set to LINE IN since that is how I get external signal into the computer. This is how it works on the Soundmax equipped A31 and X32, as well as the T20 all of which have Windows XP. The X60T with Vista has very few options for recording or playback. If you make a change, it changes it back. It's kind of retarded. Frankly I can't find any modern Vista loaded computer with a Line IN which is why I continue to use the older Thinkpads for work (although recently I picked up a MOTU 8Pre which has 8 MIC/ LINE inputs on Firewire).

The ability to record from Line-in or Wave changed with the X61 and T61 series .... your T60 and older units all will record just fine with WinXP or Vista. BTW, you are correct about not finding "Stereo Mix" on the older ThinkPads .... the term is used loosely as a general catch-all for "what-u-hear" or "wave-in" etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:08 pm 
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DRTigerlilly wrote:
Lenovo asked for figures about how many people use or want this feature, and i started a poll to do this, and despite the fact that this thread has so many reads, i don't know if 15 people in total responded to the poll.

Certainly doesn't give any impetus for anything to be done for future models.


I didnt post about the problem earlier. I just stumpled over this discussion when I searched for a way to record sound/picture using Camtasia.

Count me in on one of those who would like it fixed in future models. I dont purchase Thinkpad to get crippled models - I buy it because I thought it was the best.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:14 pm 
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techie wrote:
DRTigerlilly wrote:
Lenovo asked for figures about how many people use or want this feature, and i started a poll to do this, and despite the fact that this thread has so many reads, i don't know if 15 people in total responded to the poll.

Certainly doesn't give any impetus for anything to be done for future models.


I didnt post about the problem earlier. I just stumpled over this discussion when I searched for a way to record sound/picture using Camtasia.

Count me in on one of those who would like it fixed in future models. I dont purchase Thinkpad to get crippled models - I buy it because I thought it was the best.


There were two polls ..... the latest one is found here:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=64064

Feel free to add your comments at that thread.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:06 am 
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i posted earlier that the icusbaudio usb sound card didn't provide stereo mix in vista.

I ordered a new card, b/c the first one stopped working and had been loose fitting in the usb port. I am pleased to report, that i am no longer experiencing the crashing & bluescreening i was experiencing with the first card, and that i've gotten stereo mix to work, just be careful not to use the audio drivers that are available through windows update or you will lose the functionality. I think the instability might have been due to the faulty card.

This time around i only installed the drivers, not the software that came w/ the disk, and i ran the setup file in windows xp sp2 compatibility mode.

I also had to disable a startup program that puts itself in your system tray, b/c it gives an error message on start, so i disabled it via msconfig, but apart from that, everything seems to be working ok.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:10 pm 
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Just received my StarTech USB to Audio adapter. RadioShack online. $22.99 + tax and 2nd day shipping came to $35.38.
Ability to record streaming audio using audacity is restored!
This is on my T61 running XP.
Only catch is that you have to remove the USB audio adapter to be able to listed through the laptop's stero speakers. At least so far.

UPDATE!!!! Also tried it on my wife's X61. Works fine on the X61 also!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:43 pm 
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I also have XP and an X61, and got the StarTech device back when match_point first posted about it (aside to him/her -- what a great thang you've done here! :)), but haven't used it yet. For when I do:

I'm obviously missing a key concept here. :oops: I don't understand how it is that one works around the issue of not being able to hear what they are recording? Do you just have to go by a bar graph representation of the sound to know when to start and stop it? Or, maybe it can be heard simultaneously if headphones or speakers are plugged into the device...? I've been guessing that any tweaking is done after the recording is made and the device unplugged, but am not getting how one knows what and when to capture in the first place. Would be interested to hear how lack of sound during recording is overcome during various applications of the StarTech, Audacity and/or others.

(BTW, the device can be found pretty inexpensively. I got mine at Amazon for, IIRC, about $18 shipped. I have their "Prime" membership, i.e. "free" shipping of all eligible items for a $70 annual fee; but shipping would only have added approx. $4.00 as I recall.)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:58 pm 
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semiclue wrote:
I don't understand how it is that one works around the issue of not being able to hear what they are recording?


What? :shock:

No "What-U-Hear" recording available with these USB device work-arounds?

If true, then that's not a work-around for true recording capabilities (like the old T42 or T43 or a new Mac) .... that's more like a band-aid approach, IMHO.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:02 pm 
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Hi eecon, it's probably just me misinterpreting something here (possibly something very elementary, hence the blush, lol)! A few times since the Startech came up, it's been mentioned matter-of-factly that there is no sound while it is plugged in (which it needs to be, to gain the stereo mix option). And I noticed that myself, after briefly installing it prior to getting a new HDD, but running out of time to toy with it at all.

But again, I figure I'm just missing something about the process since it seems very likely that out of several ppl here who've reported success with the device, *someone* would've mentioned *something* about it (e.g., how they proceeded without sound; or an opinion on whether it's a hassle, or a real solution, etc.). But no one has, so that's probably a good sign!

Also, I think the Startech is designed for use with headphones or speakers only, that its "real"/actual purpose is just to provide more ports for those, and improve sound through them. So maybe, as I hypothesized previously, ppl here are using headphones or speakers while recording. Or whatever is being done, would be great if someone could list a few key basics!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:36 pm 
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semiclue wrote:
Or whatever is being done, would be great if someone could list a few key basics!


Checkout and follow the links in the Lenovo Forum for more info:

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/mess ... 1293#M1293

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Oh, I was referring to the Startech when I said it would be great if someone who's used it would post a few basics (or maybe just confirm whether headphones or speakers must always be used with it, in order to hear what you're recording).

But thanks for reminding me about that other thread, haven't kept up with it in awhile.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:36 pm 
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I wish this item had been prominently displayed as a sticky on this forum, then I wouldn't have gone and bought a laptop that I am now very dissatisfied with.

:cry:

I am doing my part on letting the word out. We all should do so too for the sake of those that care about this issue and are considering buying one of these laptops.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:01 am 
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rm wrote:
I wish this item had been prominently displayed as a sticky on this forum, then I wouldn't have gone and bought a laptop that I am now very dissatisfied with.

:cry:

I am doing my part on letting the word out. We all should do so too for the sake of those that care about this issue and are considering buying one of these laptops.


I asked the moderators to please consider this thread for Sticky status about 4 or 5 months ago, but the request was rejected at that time.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:49 am 
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eecon wrote:
I asked the moderators to please consider this thread for Sticky status about 4 or 5 months ago, but the request was rejected at that time.


Could it be that someone is more worried about sponsored adds than about the users?

In any case, one of the polls starts out by saying that "it has been established" that the problem is at the hardware level, but I am not yet convinced about this. Can someone tell me what makes them think the issue is at the hardware level and not just at the driver level?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:52 am 
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rm wrote:
Could it be that someone is more worried about sponsored adds than about the users?



That's really a poorly conceived statement considering all of the Mods here are unpaid volunteers and that the site owner funds most of the costs out of pocket. Cool your jets.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:11 am 
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Harryc wrote:
That's really a poorly conceived statement considering all of the Mods here are unpaid volunteers and that the site owner funds most of the costs out of pocket. Cool your jets.


Then why is this not a sticky yet? People are buying crippled hardware without notice from the manufacturer and without proper warning from the user community!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:20 am 
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We have some housekeeping problems with stickies on the forums...too many. We will post this as a tip in the request in the How To's and FAQ's section though. Give me a few days and I'll take care of it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:24 am 
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Harryc wrote:
We have some housekeeping problems with stickies on the forums...too many. We will post this as a tip in the request in the How To's and FAQ's section though. Give me a few days and I'll take care of it.


Could you please sticky it in the mean time? Pretty please? :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:26 am 
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Not going to happen. If it's that critical I'll take a look at posting it in the FAQ tonight.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:33 am 
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Harryc wrote:
Not going to happen. If it's that critical I'll take a look at posting it in the FAQ tonight.


I think it is that critical. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:02 pm 
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Let's all hope Lenovo does not cripple the audio recording capabilities of the T61's replacement series:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=65315

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Has anyone actually eyeballed the chip (audio chip? DSP?) and circuit board to see if Lenovo did something simple (like not connecting a pin) or is the audio chip itself not physically capable of stereo?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:48 pm 
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Going by what was said about the other brands of laptops (Dell is the one I saw referenced for sure), this is a driver limitation, not a hardware one.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:08 pm 
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qviri wrote:
Going by what was said about the other brands of laptops (Dell is the one I saw referenced for sure), this is a driver limitation, not a hardware one.


Lenovo officially claims otherwise for their units (scroll down to the 10th posting on the page):

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/mess ... ing&page=3

You've got about 6 months worth of reading to catch-up with the rest of us :thumbs-UP:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:21 pm 
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And on the next page, there's a link to a PDF from Analog Devices which says it's supported. I really doubt Lenovo got a version of the chip with no stereo manufactured for them. (At least I'd hope so, given they wouldn't get IPS screens manufactured for them.)

(As a side note, I am not sure if Mark_Lenovo would be comfortable with taking his posts as the official position of Lenovo as a whole, especially regarding hardware issues.)

I retreat from my earlier claim of this being driver specific. Hellosailor, http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Dat ... AD1984.pdf suggest that the audio chip is capable of recording stereo ("Simultaneous record of two stereo channels").

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:30 pm 
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qviri wrote:
(As a side note, I am not sure if Mark_Lenovo would be comfortable with taking his posts as the official position of Lenovo as a whole, especially regarding hardware issues.)


He uses the Lenovo Logo on an official Lenovo Forum and Lenovo has not yet pulled his posts in 6 months ..... I'd say it's an open and shut case.

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