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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Well...I really wish I weren't in the position to actually have something to post here. But there is no getting around the fact that I do. I'm actually still in the process of having my own negative experience with a seller by the name of ricerocket. And for a "pretty price", I will tell you. Tho, throughout this post, you will not encounter any derogatory remarks, cuss words, or any type of slanderous outbursts. :BAAAD!: I have already taken care of that with a good vigorous hiking in one of my local canyons. :wink: Thank goodness for the mountains.

Anyway, below, is the actual posting I responded to, and the situation with it thus far:

FS: T60p (accidental damage/warranty thru 7/2010) new price!
Lenovo T60p Thinkpad Notebook Computer (2007ZK4) – Originally US$1710.93

* Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 2.0 GHz Processor
* 4 GB DDR2 (OSes only see 3, but 2 x 2 GB is required for symmetric dual channel)
* 100 GB Hard Disk (7200rpm)
* 14.1 inch SXGA+ 1400x1050 LCD
* ATI Mobility Fire GL V5250 256 MB Video Card
* DVD RW and CD RW Drive
* Intel 802.11 abg Wireless Card
* Bluetooth/Modem
* 1GB Ethernet Card
* Security Chip
* Fingerprint Reader
* 9c Li-Ion Battery (holds 70 Wh)
* Weight: 5.5 lbs
* 3 year depot warranty + accidental damage coverage

This T60p is mint, the LCD is quite brilliant. Built July 2007. Warranty is good until July 22, 2010.

Pictures below:

http://i43.tinypic.com/zvpeoi.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2iw60q0.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/10mvkzs.jpg

Lowered from $950! Asking $860 OBO.
______________________________________________
My "Pre-purchase Synopsis"- On Feb. 22, 2009, after months, and I do mean months, of searching and researching, etc, I finally found another Thinkpad to replace my aging T40. After searching through forums, classifieds, resellers not on forums, retail stores, etc.. to determine if "ricerocket" had any negative feedback, I was unable to find any. I thought, okay...good. After a couple of days of discussion via phone, and emails, chat, and the forum, my questions were asked and answered, my curiosities satisfied (or so I thought), thus leaving me feeling confident that I did my homework, and for his sake, happy to know that my purchase was going to help him also buy something else that he wanted. Therefore, I made the decision to purchase his T60p. And did so on Feb 24, 2009.

"Post-purchase experience"- Despite a few delays, which were easily forgiven, I finally received the T60p. However, much to my disappointment of what the mailman handed me, was not what I was expecting. The original ship method determined by the seller was supposed to be "Priority Insured". This was how I expected it to arrive. After confirming a second ship date, it was agreed for shipping on the 27th of Feb, a Sat. But what I received, was an "Express" box sized 15.5"x12.5"x3", NON-INSURED!, with a big tear on one side of it, yesterday, the 4th of March.

Unfortunately, I did not notice this tear until "after" the mailman left because well... I was too freaked out over how my newly purchased T60p was Freewheeling inside this Express box! Nevertheless, once I got into the house and opened the box, there wasn't one single 'peanut', 'popcorn', piece of bubble-wrap, Styrofoam, crumpled up newspaper, or any other packaging material in which to secure and protect my newly purchased T60p! It was put into two of those DHL shipping pouches, one inside the other, and then put in the Express box, as is. There was actually space enough for two Thinkpads. Or at least it seems there is.

Once I open the lid, I notice that the keyboard had the same white dust looking stuff all over it as the lid. The LCD has numerous press marks and fingerprint marks on it. The little red mouse nub has this dark brown crud all over it. Dirty with dust everywhere. Even inside the DVD tray. Anyway...sigh...Once I put the battery in, which was in a non-bubble-wrap pouch, and loose in the box, along with the power cord in the same manner, the machine was booted up, and the very first thing I see are two black streaky lines on the lower left portion of the LCD. My heart literally sank. Well..no. It's more like; Blood shot out of my eyes!

Upon closer inspection, the one line is about 1" long, and the other about 1-1/2" long with a 1/2" space in between them starting from the bottom of the screen, on upward. And it even sort of looks like tire tracks if you look close enough. ha-ha, strange...but funny. It's as if something was pressed against the screen, and were drug upwards...like a streak...like when you do a burnout and then take off....in a car, is the best way to describe it. I have pics of it, but am not sure how to post them here. While looking at the screen with the Thinkpad off, you can see the same kind of streaks in a band across the screen about midway, but they are not visible when the Thinkpad is on. Nor are they on the surface of the LCD.

I now give him a call, but he already sounds like he knows why I'm calling. I explained to him the problem with the LCD, but before I could ask, he repeated twice that this was not like this before he shipped it. That it had to happen during "transit". And then, the I'm sorry's came. And well...you still have the warranty on it, came next. Maintaining my cool, I then told him I would complete my inspection and get back with him. I did so today...and am now awaiting a reply. It's doubtful I will get one, but I am hopeful. I've taken a few pics of it...the black streaks on the LCD, and the overall condition of it. Would like to post for others to see, when I can figure out how to insert them.

I apologize for my synopsis being so long, but I wanted to give an accurate description of my negative experience with ricerocket thus far.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:37 am 
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If you can see 'the streaks' with the Thinkpad off, then the LCD is cracked. Return it to the seller and get your money back. Lenovo will not cover that repair. To the seller, please do the right thing here and do a total refund. You cannot ship a laptop without massive amounts of bubble wrap protection.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:06 am 
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That sounds like an awful experience, sorry to hear about it. It seems that the machine has the accidental protection warranty upgrade, which may work out for both of you.

I won't comment on whether the machine in the pictures was the same as the one you received (the one in the pictures looks good), or about the packing job and lack of insurance, but I can offer one possible solution.

The member you dealt with has been around the forum for a while and seems like a decent human being. Assuming this was just a lapse of judgment, I would call Lenovo support and provide a list of all the issues with the machine, they should fix them all at no charge and in a few days. I would also request a substantial partial refund from the seller to cover your angst and time - perhaps $100 - $150.

Another good alternative, was posted above.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Posts: 25
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
This is sad, I know. Well...I got my response from the seller. Here it is.

- "I'm sorry, but there is no possible way I can provide for your case of
buyers remorse. I am not a store; I do not have the means to fund or
move laptops around on a whim. As you know, the sale of the T60p was
used directly to fund another laptop purchase, which I do not have the
option of returning either. It is truly unfortunate that there was
LCD damage upon your receipt, but the item, as shipped, was accurate
describe and represented, had no blemishes other than what I disclosed
to you about the corners, and thus I cannot be held accountable. I
packaged the laptop itself in two tightly wrapped layers of protective
bubble wrap, and sent it in USPS approved/provided packaging. There
are two options for you to pursue, claims through USPS and also
through Lenovo. Included in that price was a full warranty and a full
insurance plan providing accidental damage repair, which you can take
to any Lenovo approved shop for repairs, or have a box overnighted to
you. I suggest that you use Lenovo's service, as claims through USPS
can take several weeks, if not months to resolve. You have the full
potential to make this laptop almost brand new in software and in
hardware, at absolutely zero cost to you."

Regards,

- Jimmy

Guess how far across the room I flew, with this "blow off"? My God, this laptop was FREEWHEELING inside the box! And as soon as I figure out how to get the pics up, you can see for yourselves what I am talking about.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:46 pm 
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You stated" ... there wasn't one single 'peanut', 'popcorn', piece of bubble-wrap, Styrofoam, crumpled up newspaper, or any other packaging material in which to secure and protect my newly purchased T60p"

The seller stated "I packaged the laptop itself in two tightly wrapped layers of protective bubble wrap".

So, someone is not telling the truth here. At any rate, if it were my laptop at this point I'd be on the phone to Lenovo. It's an inconvenience, but the accidental insurance will cover this. Also the seller is correct, you do not want to go thru USPS insurance claims, it takes months. Lenovo can fix this as good as new in a matter of a few days. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Yes. That is what I stated. I also know what the seller said.

However, in reference to the peanuts, styrofoam, newspaper, or whatever etc...ONE of these should have been utilized to surround the laptop, making it so that it wouldn't flop around in the box. It goes without saying that he should have put them in some kind of bag first. No one is lying here. The seller himself, via the phone, even admitted that he could have...not "should" have...but COULD have packaged it better.

Even you, yourself harryc, stated; "You cannot ship a laptop without massive amounts of bubble wrap protection."

Please re-read my post. I clearly stated that he had put them in (2) DHL pouches, and THEN put in an oversized box. The box has a big hole on the side of it, with the tear coming from the inside, out. If the sellers shipping method, in this way, is representative of being "acceptable" to you, then there isn't any reason for you to respond or reply to my posts.

Thank You.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:30 pm 
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A bit after the fact, but all people shipping laptops should have a look at my posting How to ship a laptop via USPS

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:44 pm 
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perfplus wrote:
If the sellers shipping method, in this way, is representative of being "acceptable" to you, then there isn't any reason for you to respond or reply to my posts.

Thank You.

Don't get snippy with me, I was trying to help. Please give me a reason to delete all of your posts in this thread and to issue a warning.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Uh, perfplus, you might want to cool your jets. The last thing that you want to do is snap at a Mod or Admin, especially when we are always trying to help. I understand your frustration..believe me. If I had that much money tied up, I would expect better.

Now, HarryC was simply pointing out that you said that there was no bubble wrap, and that the seller stated that there was. Harry NEVER said that it was acceptable. He just pointed out the difference.

Just move forward, and count yourself lucky that you have the warranty. Consider the rest of us warned about the transaction that you had with ricerocket.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:21 am 
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Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
This is true. Yet, are you kidding, harryc?? I wasn't being "snippy". As you put it. Nor are my "jets" in a flame. So, my apologies, if I've offended you. But if you want to threaten to write me a warning(?), or delete me because you took offense (which was completely unwarranted),to what I said, then that is your choice to do.

Regardless of the warranty, for what I spent, I should get some kind of satisfaction, shouldn't I?

I feel no resentment toward the buyer. Although he feels some resentment toward me, thinking I've implicated him as a liar. He mistakes my inquisitiveness by asking questions, as implications. For that, i cannot help him. I'll just be glad when it gets fixed...so I can move on from this ridiculousness.

My thanks to all who have shown sympathy, and have offered the best advice they know for the situation.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:38 am 
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I read all of perfplus's original post yesterday (Friday) and at that time I understood that the main beef was this:

- the laptop was allowed to freely move, shift, bang, bounce around, freewheel, cartwheel, etc. within the confines of the shipping container, thus subjecting the laptop to unnecessary impacts during transit

(Secondary issues about the change in insurance status and overall condition of the system was noted)

Despite the fact that the laptop was placed inside a couple of bubble-wrap envelopes (which both seller and buyer have stated), it is not sufficient protection when free space exists around the laptop inside the box. Believe me, I've been the recipient of several such packing jobs and a couple of them were not pretty. I completely understand that one can be a little rattled about getting something like this in the mail and after spending so much $$$ for it. We are all here to try to assist one another and jumping on someone's comments or making veiled threats is not going to help out the situation.

The number one rule I have when receiving any package from eBay, online sellers, mail order, etc., is: take pictures of the entire box before it is opened. Photograph ALL six sides of the box, noting any visible damage. If possible, contact the seller before opening the box and discuss any concerns then, not after the box has been opened. Photograph (or videotape) the opening of the box and first inspection of the contents. Take pictures of the item from all angles. For laptops, this means all six sides (top, bottom, front edge, back edge, left and right sides), as well as the keyboard and LCD areas. It appears the perfplus has done this and as TPF does not host member's images, the only suggestion that I have is to open an account at any one of the free image hosting sites (photobucket, flickr, etc.) and post the links to the images.

As the system appears to be headed off to warranty service, let's wait until we hear the outcome of that action before continuing this discussion.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:01 pm 
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I guess I should respond since I was the seller here.

RealBlackStuff wrote:
A bit after the fact, but all people shipping laptops should have a look at my posting How to ship a laptop via USPS


I packed the laptop almost exactly as described here, except I used two large DHL bubble wrapped shipping envelopes instead of buying an extra box, which fit the T60p like a glove, and it also sealed it so it was entirely weatherproof. If fact, they fit so tightly that you cannot package it with the 9-cell battery attached... These are pretty common, as I think UPS and FedEx both use the same bubble wrap envelopes. Honestly, I would feel comfortable dropping it from 5 ft in the air and have it come out undamaged. I then packed the power supply and the 9-cell battery in additional padding (not bubble wrap, as it would have been too thick to fit in the box, but it was cushioning foam pouches...like this: http://www.uline.com/Images/product/Large/HD_854_L.JPG ). This was placed in the Express mail flat rate box (which is identical to the Priority one, except it costs $30 more :) ). Perhaps stuffing it with newspaper and such would have prevented the power supply and battery from sliding against the LCD. However, only a direct and deliberate striking of the package perpendicular to the large face of the package would cause the sort of damage that was described...and I'm not sure how preventing the power supply and battery from sliding would have prevented that. There was no "freewheeling"...that's quite an exaggeration.

I didn't use packing peanuts because they were entirely unnecessary. Packing peanuts offer ZERO protection of an item as dense as a Thinkpad. Trust me, I ship car parts almost weekly and see all sorts of crap that happens. The item will just shove the peanuts around as it so desires.

I was told all express shipments are insured up to $1000. I'm pretty sure that's above the stated selling price of the laptop, so yes, it was insured.

I wish that this would have come out well for both of us, but the fact of the matter is I can't be held responsible for USPS employees' actions.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:33 pm 
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Well, unfortunately there WAS considerable "freewheeling" of the unit inside the box. It's not an exaggeration at all. I've got the pics of it, but had to join photobucket, or one of those programs, so I can load them up on the forum. I just haven't been home to get that done.

Though, I'm not sure how you can compare shipping "car parts" to that of shipping a Thinkpad....but it was completely unnecessary to package it so inadequately. That being said, perhaps it is better next time, to take the "extra steps" to secure an item of value for shipment? Therefore preventing any potential headaches for the both seller/recipient. Just some friendly advice.

The LCD is being replaced at this time, and so is the LCD bezel/frame, which was in fact, 'warped'.

I'll be satisfied when it's fixed, and can only hope there are no more surprises.

So...no hard feelings.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:31 am 
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Here's my opinion on packaging in this context and then I'll drop it. Using a flat rate USPS box to ship a laptop is woefully inadequate protection. Those boxes are what 4 " wide at best? You literally can't wrap enough protection around a relatively delicate laptop in that small space to protect it. Now with that said, I know a few reputable dealers on this forum who have admitted to using these containers to ship laptops as far away as Europe. I am 100% certain that if you ask them that they would be the first to admit it is really inadequate, and that they are taking a calculated risk to save $$ on shipping.(period)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:59 pm 
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ha-ha...it is a bit difficult to not want to keep reiterating on this matter, isn't it....but....You are absolutely right, harryc.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Harryc wrote:
Here's my opinion on packaging in this context and then I'll drop it. Using a flat rate USPS box to ship a laptop is woefully inadequate protection.

My post about using USPS has been up for almost one year, has been viewed over 2,000 (twothousand) times, and nobody has said anything about it being inadequate.
I have shipped laptops like that all over the world, including to the Ukraine, without any damage!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:32 pm 
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RBS, if it works for you, God bless. However that's not the way I ship. I'm not about to sit here and argue about how many inches of bubble wrap is needed, but I will if you want to :).


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:23 pm 
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Well...luckily for you, RBS, your experiences have not been negative ones. Hopefully it will remain that way for you, as well.

Tho...I've got to agree with harryc on this one. The USPS box that was sent to me, was woefully inadequate. Both by the sender, and USPS.

But then again....hey....maybe that's just my karma. Who knows.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:51 pm 
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Several posts were off topic, so I created a new thread here for them.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:31 pm 
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I bought a T61 advertised here on the forum (from member 2Think) as coming with Windows Vista Ultimate and Office 2007. What I got was a T61 (admittedly in gorgeous condition) with Vista Ultimate and Office 2007, only those software packages weren't licensed to that computer.

In the properties pane of "My Computer" was a big and bright Dell logo with Dell listed as the support provider for the system. Obviously Lenovo and Dell do not share Vista installs and Dell does not support ThinkPads.

Even worse, the "Registered User" for Office 2007 was "Dell Customer"

The machine had only one COA on the bottom, and that was for Windows XP.

When I contacted 2Think, he told me that I could use a key cracker utility to get the activation key for Office and Vista.

I insisted that I cannot use cracked or otherwise unlicensed software, so he offered to sell me a copy of Vista and Office for half of his cost. Of course I declined, since I already paid for those products in the original sale price.

I thought I was getting a good deal, and had the ThinkPad included licensed copies of Vista and Office I would have. As it is, I got a very nice piece of hardware, but overpaid.

Since rejecting his "offer" to re-buy the software, he has not responded to email and still thinks that he did nothing wrong.

I've bought and sold many times on this forum and this is the first time I have run into such a shady seller with such obvious disregard for the law.

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Last edited by asiafish on Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Wow. I'm not looking to buy anything right now, so haven't been in here for a while. No sooner do I read the rule explained in the recent sticky thread at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=75614 than I read this, indicating it's already being broken!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:45 pm 
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No, this is the transgression that prompted creation of the rule.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:21 am 
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asiafish neglects to mention he lost his paypal dispute because he already knew software on laptop did not come with COA then decided he wants refund. Pleading ignorance works at Walmart but does not work too good here. Specifically,

1) listing never stated that COA were included with laptop
2) asiafish was advised that laptop "Does Not" come with software CDs via PM
3) asiafish was advised that I have no knowledge how software got on said laptop.
4) Despite arrogant and inflammatory remarks and threats, he was offered a 50/50 solution to obtain COA's. $40 each side. Commitment to resolve 50/50 was made with BillMorrow as well.
5) asiafish was not interested in resolution, instead he continued his belligerence.
6) After investigating asiafish's claims, paypal rejected asiafish's dispute

I hope this experience shows buyers and sellers three things:

1) After you execute a transaction, you can not ask for features that a seller told you beforehand did not exist. This condition is no justification for Seller to bear lost opportunity cost.
2) if you do not understand something, ask again until you understand. Do Not Assume.
3) We can resolve far easier in a conciliatory instead of belligerent approach.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:42 pm 
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2think wrote:
asiafish neglects to mention he lost his paypal dispute because he already knew software on laptop did not come with COA then decided he wants refund. Pleading ignorance works at Walmart but does not work too good here. Specifically,

1) listing never stated that COA were included with laptop
2) asiafish was advised that laptop "Does Not" come with software CDs via PM
3) asiafish was advised that I have no knowledge how software got on said laptop.
4) Despite arrogant and inflammatory remarks and threats, he was offered a 50/50 solution to obtain COA's. $40 each side. Commitment to resolve 50/50 was made with BillMorrow as well.
5) asiafish was not interested in resolution, instead he continued his belligerence.
6) After investigating asiafish's claims, paypal rejected asiafish's dispute

I hope this experience shows buyers and sellers three things:

1) After you execute a transaction, you can not ask for features that a seller told you beforehand did not exist. This condition is no justification for Seller to bear lost opportunity cost.
2) if you do not understand something, ask again until you understand. Do Not Assume.
3) We can resolve far easier in a conciliatory instead of belligerent approach.


The fact remains you advertised a computer coming with Vista Ultimate and Office 2007, when in fact it came with XP professional and pirated copies of the above with Dell branding and no COA. That is illegal.

As to the PayPal dispute, that was dismissed for one reason and one reason only; they (PayPal) only backs eBay purchases and I did not buy this on eBay.

You are a thief, and your solutions were either to use a key-cracker utility to steal the software or to pay you again for something that I had already paid for in full.

I have since bought legal licenses at a higher price than you offered because I will not give a thief my money.

I have also filed a software piracy report with Microsoft, filed a charge-back with my credit card company which has not been dismissed (they are not part of eBay) and have been speaking to an officer at the Sugarland, Texas police department and a deputy district attorney for Fort Bend County, Texas, where we are working on filing a criminal complaint against you for software piracy, larceny, and mail fraud.

Have a nice life.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:55 pm 
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@ 2think AND asiafish - this needs to be the end of the back and forth on this topic. Each of you have stated your sides, and now it is time to move on. This thread is for a "quick" glance at negative feedback, not discussions.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:48 am 
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I've got the pics of it, but had to join photobucket, or one of those programs, so I can load them up on the forum.
The simplest, easiest and cheapest (no charge) way to post image is http://imageshack.us/. Use the thumbnails and everyone can see what you're talking about.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:23 pm 
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Buyers beware of numb401
FS: Thinkpad T30 parts (Batts/PR/Floppy/CD-rw+dvd drive)
The laptop arrived absolutely filthy, and had piss-poor packing!
Just a plastic shopping bag around the laptop, and otherwise loose in a flat USPS box.
Looks like the palmrest cracked on the left front from this lousy job.
Thanks to the ruggedness of the T30, no (noticeable so far) further damage was done while in transit.
At least the (very good SXGA+) LCD arrived in one piece, which is what I was really after.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:57 am 
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I deeply regret to report that it could seem as forum.thinkpads.com member Brad may have used the Marketplace of forum.thinkpads.com to commit fraud against me. The (very long and very sad) story is this:

The pre-story:

In the spring 2008 I was looking to buy a fingerprint-reader equipped FlexView-T42 ThinkPad for my mother, as discussed in the thread WTB: T42 w/15” SXGA+ LCD (FlexView) & fingerprint-reader. Note that emphasis in that WTB-thread is very specifically on a T42 with a fingerprint-reader. In reply to that WTB-thread I received a PM from user Brad who offered me a 2373-L4U which according to the ltwbook has a fingerprint reader (the T42 offered by Brad’s also had this). The condition of this T42 was stated to be: “Lid has a minimal amount of normal wear and the palmrest and keyboard look new”. Brad offered me this T42 for $475 (plus shipping) on June 12, 2008. Although this was a quite expensive price for an out-of-warranty T42, and although I had already shortly before bought another T42 for this purpose (bought via eBay, and refurbished by James, member jamiphar), I accepted Brad’s offer, partly since Brad at that time had a fine reputation on the forum, and partly also because I wanted to give the best of these two T42’s for my mother and then to keep the second as a spare. I asked Brad to upgrade this “his” T42 since I wanted it be like-new, and Brad agreed to this and upgraded the CPU (to a PM745, which I supplied); replaced the LCD cover (I bought and had supplied the new cover), replaced the palmrest/fingerprint reader, upgraded the stock CD-ROM to “new-in-box” DVD-RW (FRU 39T2729) which he supplied, replaced the CMOS battery, and swapped the stock HDD to a new-in-box 100 GB/7200 rpm. The total cost of this out-of-warranty, fingerprint-equipped T42 ended being:

a) The T42 itself: $475
b) The LCD cover replacement: $50 (labour only, as I bought and had supplied the part)
c) The new CMOS battery: $10 (part and labour)
d) The new palmrest/fingerprint bezel: $60 (part and labour),
e) The new 100 GB, 7200 rpm HDD in a sealed box: $110 (bought from Brad)
f) The DVD-RW (“sealed in the box”, FRU 40Y8622/39T2729): $60 (bought from Brad)

Total cost incl. refurbishment-labour, but excl. shipping = 475+50+10+60+110+60 = $765

After completing all upgrades, Brad wrote in a mail on July 31, 2008: ”Your T42 should be ready to ship Friday”. This shipping however did not happen, because in a mail of Aug. 6, 2008 Brad wrote: “I am still testing your T42. It is working nicely and looks great!” Brad continued and continued and continued to postpone the shipment… and promised and promised and promised to ship “soon”. In a mail e.g. of Dec. 24, 2008, Brad wrote: “I am afraid that I have failed miserably with your ThinkPad shipping request. You probably already know that though. I apologize that I wasn't able to get you the ThinkPads in time for Christmas. I kept meaning to get them out did not. Hopefully real soon....”.

Long story short, Brad never shipped this T42 that I had agreed to buy on June 12, 2008. I ended having to go to New York myself to pick it up in Brad’s home on May 2009…. almost a year after agreeing to by it (!). Another big reason for going to New York was to try to settle another very unsatisfactory matter with Brad, which will be described later in this post.

After bringing this specifically and explicitly requested-to-be, and refurbished to “like-new” fingerprint-reader equipped T42 back to Denmark, it unfortunately turned out that the fingerprint-reader does not function (the motherboard is simply defective!), and also that the “new-in-box” DVD-RW sold by Brad did not function. Both these items have been thoroughly documented by me to be defective. Brad has acknowledged both defects (as a comment to this, Brad wrote: “I apologize for not checking that”), and Brad has offered a discount/compensation to cover for the defective mobo, but this discount/compensation has never been received. Also, Brad has promised to ship a replacement fully working DVD-RW (I returned the defective drive to him in Dec. 2009), but this new replacement DVD-RW (FRU 39T2729) has also never been received from him (since he never shipped it to me!).

Bottom line with this restored-to-new T42 sold-as-with-working-fingerprint-reader is that I am very disappointed with very specifically, very explicitly seeking for and then buying and spending a significant amount of money on it ($765 for an out-of-warranty unit!), just to discover that one of the main parts/reasons (the fingerprint-reader) for agreeing to buy this specific machine turns out to be defective. Highly unsatisfactory – and likewise highly unsatisfactory is Brad’s speed (or rather: Total lack of!) seeking to cure the problems. In my opinion, this behaviour is not worthy for a senior forum member such as Brad, hitherto having had such a fine reputation on the forum.

End of pre-story. Regret to say, this is not the only negative feedback I have for Brad. Unfortunately, there is a whole lot more. Read on.

At more or less the same time as posting the above fingerprint-reader T42 WTB-thread, I dreamt of the ultimate ThinkPad for myself, which I considered being a T61 motherboard transplanted to a 4:3 T60/p chassis, and equipped with a FlexView/IPS UXGA LCD; this project is/was discussed in the thread Parts for the ultimate 15” T60 UXGA FlexView w/T61(p) mobo? Since the parts needed for this project is both very hard and very expensive to obtain here in Denmark, compared to in the USA, I therefore sought an experienced “partner” in the USA to help me get the parts (many US-sellers won’t ship out of USA), and also to help assemble this ultimate ThinkPad. I therefore asked Brad if he would be able and willing to help me get this ultimate T60. What I specifically wrote Brad was the following “business proposal”, which I suggested via mail on Aug. 10, 2008, where I asked if Brad was interested in entering into an informal “co-operation” with me where I should buy used T42’s via eBay, which Brad should then refurbish and sell via the Marketplace. This project would, if agreed to, be to the benefit off all parties; to me, to Brad and to the forum-members, since the latter would in this way get the opportunity to buy refurbished, thoroughly tested ThinkPad’s from an expert, trustworthy seller with a fine reputation, and that the forum-members would therefore avoid the eBay-gambling. What I wrote in my “business proposal” to Brad was the following:

In my mail to Brad of Aug. 10, 2008, entitled Business proposal!, Johan wrote:
Dear Brad,

Although you may perhaps find this mail a bit unusual, I nevertheless don’t hesitate (that much…) to send it – because I am having a very clear sense that you are an openhearted and relaxed fellow!

As indicated by the ”subject” of this mail, I have had an idea that you might think is fun, and would perhaps want to participate in – and to very clearly emphasize the keyword here is ”fun”, and neither ”a lot of tedious work” and/or ”many concerns”… just fun, and hopefully a bit of profit especially for you!

OK, let’s get to it! The thing is that I am having great fun browsing eBay, mainly for/after ThinkPad-items (and mainly T42/T60 stuff, that is all I know about), and sometimes I think I see bargains (auctions ending) passing by just in front of my nose… and then I wonder: “Why I am not able to share this just-passing-by bargain with some forum friend?” And this is why I write! Because I would like to ask you, Sir Borax, if you perhaps would have any interest in entering into a small ”joint venture” with me, where I put in a bit of ”venture capital”, and you for your part only invest a bit of your time? What I very specifically have in mind is to ask: What if I win a cheap T42 on eBay, and you then receive it, refurbish it to the extent necessary, and you then sell it again? The profit made on this I suggest will be split between us with 75 % for you and 25 % for me (as you do the work!). The profit for me will be put in the ”Brad-bank”, and will solely be used for some day when I ask you to help me again (= be used to pay for your service to me). According to this model, you will have some work (and income from that), and also some ”raw profit”, whereas I will have fun and access to your “free help” some day in the future.. when I have “saved up” sufficiently in the “Brad-bank”! :-)

An example:

If buying a ThinkPad on eBay for, say, $250, and you then having to use one hour to refurbish it (for a ”sell-able” condition), and it needs parts for, say, $50, and you then being able to sell it for, say $450, then there is a direct profit here of: 450-250-50 (parts)–one hour Brad labour (at your hourly rate). I don’t know what you would charge for the labour, but say you e.g. charge $75, then that would still leave a profit of 450-250-50-75 = 75 (in addition to the 75/Brad-labour). This surely doesn’t sound much, I agree, but if you perhaps have a stock of ”OK, still-usable part”, then the $50 part would be less… and the potential profit would be higher! If then being able to pick up a nice ThinkPad now and then… then the profit might be interesting after some time?

All I want with this is to ”play” on eBay now and then, when I (or you!) stumble across something sufficiently interesting, and I do have a sufficient strong economy (“venture capital” you might call it) for such play… so even if I/we buy something, and don’t get it sold (of have to sell with a loss), then I will take on me the FULL economical loss… all you would invest (and ”loose”) would be your time, if the sale even won’t cover your work/labour. If, however, this proposal is of your interest, then there is also the ”fun” in it for me, that I may perhaps one day have ”saved” so much in the ”Brad-bank” (”profit-labour!”) that I could again ask you to refurbish any other ThinkPad? And that’s all I want to use “my profit” for!

This may all sound a bit spooky (unusual!) to you, Brad, but I have simply come to think of it because of the below exact ThinkPad’s, which are coming up for end-or-auction on Tuesday, and which I guess will sell for around the $200-250 mark. As a couple of these are even still being IN-WARRANTY (!!), the ”refurbishment-burden” on you would in such case be much less, and the profit-potential would be larger! Note that I won the T42 you just received from the same buyer for only $162.45 + shipping ($186.40 in total), and the one I won for my Mother (http:///cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370057621182) I got for only $192.05 + shipping (that one even still being under warranty - and James said that its cosmetic condition was one of the nicest he had ever seen!).

Again: I know that this is most likely an unusual mail to receive, Brad, but I couldn’t resist the temptation first of all because you are such a pleasant person to work with (!), and next because of your obvious highly knowledgeable background in ThinkPad’s, and furthermore (and not the least!) because I have a 100 % sense of your completely honest nature, and finally also because I have the impression that you may have some sort of convenient access to IBM/Lenovo spare parts (perhaps you have a big pile of parts?). All this sort of contributed to this ”business idea”.

Again, to emphasize, the fundamental idea of this ”joint project” should be based on – and only aimed at! – fun for both of us, and a bit of profit for you… and to save some ”money-in-the-Bard-bank” for me! A win-win situation, in my opinion, provided of course you think likewise. Again, to repeat: If we go ahead with this, I will pay for items (and shipping) won on eBay, you will put in your time – and spare parts needing to pay for before items can be offered for sale, I will also pay for them. I will take all the economical risk. You only invest (and risk not to be covered for) your time… but of course we wouldn’t buy a lot of junk, just to have huge spare-part expenses and a lot of work for you; this idea is only fun if there is some bargains that are easy to pick up! It’s not that I have so much money that I want to throw them away, but for, say, $1000 I am willing to ”play” to see if there is anything in this idea for both of us, or not.

Please let me know if you have any interest in this suggestion, Brad – and if possible before Tuesday afternoon (my time), as this is when the above four particularly interesting auctions ends. NB: The seller also has a number of PM735 (1.7 GHz) T42’s on auction the same day, but I haven’t checked specifications on them; I have focused on the PM745’s with 15” FlexView/IPS.

PS: We don’t need to set up any papers/contracts if we go ahead with this; I would consider this as a ”gentlemen’s agreement” with you, and need nothing else.

Kind regards,

Johan

To this suggestion, I immediately received the following reply:
In his reply to my mail, received on Aug. 10, 2008, Brad wrote:
Johan,

Thanks for emailing.

I thank you for thinking of me for your business proposal. Your fun offer is very generous and I am honored and would be pleased to work with you. I do not have a second thought about it.

I am all in 100% and look forward to working with you.

That is all I have to say about it. Let's play!

Thanks again,

Brad

So, after Brad agreed to this proposal, I started buying T42’s on eBay, and in Aug. and Sept. 2008 I bought in total 22 (twenty-two) FlexView T42’s. These were all shipped to Brad and refurbished and offered for sale by him on the Marketplace via the two threads FS: T42 15" SXGA+ FlexView, in-warranty, worldwide and FS: High-end T42 15" SXGA+ FlexView LCD, warranty, worl where many forum members may easily recognize the original first posts in these treads as being composed by me.

In total, in the summer of 2008, I invested $5048 in these ThinkPad’s and parts needed to refurbish them (parts such as HDD caddies and covers, AC/DC adapters, base covers, LCD covers, RAM, HDD etc).

Brad offered the twenty-two T42’s for sale via the Marketplace, sold thirteen of them and in total collected $5270 from buyers, as documented in a mail from Brad to me received of Oct. 6, 2009. Of these $5270 collected (received) by Brad, he claimed that $496 was shipping cost, that $1050 was parts supplied (= sold) by Brad, and that $1040 was Brad’s labour/”refurbishing” cost. In other words, Brad has used this co-operation (entirely funded by me) to sell his own parts + his labour for $1050+$1040 = $2090. After subtracting these $2090 + $496 (shipping cost) from the $5270 collected, Brad therefore still kept $2684 directly stemming from Johan’s $5048 investment. These $2684 is obviously (at least to me) not Brad’s money, yet he kept them in his wallet.

Unfortunately, and in despite of his initial promise: “I am all in 100%” Brad after a while totally lost his interest in trying to sell the remaining eight T42’s (22-13 = 9 but one of the T42’s turned out to have a non-charging mobo); Brad continuously neglected requests to “bump” the FS-thread, and despite many promises Brad also never listed the remaining T42s on neither eBay nor on the New York or Long Island Craigslist. Bottom line, the thirteen T42 were sold with a total loss of $23 (loss after paying Brad the $2090+$496 covering his expenses for parts + labour + shipping). Nine T42’s were left for sale, when Brad lost interest in this project or “co-operation”. Of these nine, the three were still covered under IBM warranty until mid-May 2009, potentially adding value to their selling price. Unsold laptops, purely bought and intended for rapid resale, such as these T42’s, is loosing value every day. This issue is of course most of concern for the owner who wish to sell them.

In Sept. 2009, Brad finally shipped me two of the nine T42’s and some of the parts I had had delivered to him (I asked Brad to ship me these two T42’s on Nov. 23, 2008, but he didn’t do it until Sept. 2009!).

Since Brad had effectively/silently terminated the co-operation long before autumn 2009, I decided to donate two of the T42’s around Christmas 2009 for the kids of an American forum.thinkpads.com member (Brad shipped these) in stead of just having them remaining “in stock” (forever?) with Brad. Today, mid-July 2010, there are still five T42’s left in Brad’s possession (one of which has a non-charging mobo). Because this “joint-project” has obviously been effectively terminated by Brad, I have since the summer/autumn 2009 continuously asked Brad to ship all my remaining items in his possession (which also include a T60 UXGA LCD that I had bought for my ultimate ThinkPad-project, and after agreement had delivered to Brad’s address). Brad has numerous times during the past year promised that he would ship all my items at or before specific dates, and that he would also transfer all the money to me that he still owe (and still keep in his pocket), at or before specific dates, but nothing simply continue to happen… Brad just continues to write “sorry” and then makes a new promise which also turns out to be false. This has gone on for around a year now. Today, July 14, 2010, which is almost two years after Brad and I entered this “co-operation”, Brad still keeps five of my T42’s and a number of ThinkPad parts, value in total more than $1000.

When I picked up the (turning-out-to-be:) defective-fingerprint-reader T42 (the 2372-L4U) at Brad’s house in May 2009 in Long Island, NY, Brad handed me $700 in cash with no explanation of why this small amount (there was a intense feeling of being ashamed radiated from him at that time, offering no explanation of why he did not hand me e.g. $2000?).

In Nov. 2009, I decided to contact forum.thinkpads.com owner and SeniorAdmin, Mr. Bill Morrow, to ask for his help about how to solve this sad story. I explained the whole situation as outlined above. Mr. Morrow was very kind, and replied back to me:
In his reply to me of Nov. 11, 2009, BillMorrow wrote:
johan..

i took the cowards way out and only asked brad "whats up with you and johan"..without forwarding anything..

i take it from his reply that he IS embarrassed and somewhat chagrined..

let me ask you what would be a good resolution to this business, for you..?

i have no problem being the middleman and helping you and brad out to resolve this issue..

Apparently Mr. Morrow’s brief mail to Brad did cause some embarrassment for Brad’s part, because on Nov. 25, 2009 I received a PayPal payment from Brad of $220. Apart from that, nothing else happened. Since Nov. 2009 I have received nothing from Brad (except from a number of promises, none of which have been kept). Today, Brad still owes me more than $1030 in cash, plus all the items which he still keeps in his possession, plus the replacement T42 DVD-RW.

The reason why I have entitled this post: “Fraud committed via forum.thinkpads.com by user Brad?” is that I consider it fraud to collect money on behalf of me, and then keep both the money owed to me as well as keeping my items. It should be clear to everybody, that the items bought for resale (some of which were in-warranty at that time) have lost much value being “in stock” for two years. Unfortunately, I do not believe that Brad is concerned with this issue.

Meanwhile and subsequently, Brad has continued to use this forum to sell his own ThinkPad’s and parts (e.g. here, here, here, here, here or here). I have to say that I find this continued forum-selling-activity very unsatisfactory to witness, since Brad is at the same time is continuously neglecting to ship me my items and to pay me all the money which he has collected and is still keeping and still owe me. Such behaviour does not seem to be in line with the forum gentlemen-rules which I believe is supposed to exist here (?).

I have full documentation for all my purchases of ThinkPad’s and parts, including documentation for that everything has been delivered to Brad. All I have written in this post is true. In case some forum Moderator of Administrator should nevertheless hesitate to believe this, I offer the forum.thinkpads.com SeniorAdmin access to my private e-mail account, where all correspondence between me and Brad can be found, and where eBay and PayPal documentation (incl. payment confirmation) is also available.

For more than a year I have been extremely patient with Brad, giving him plenty of opportunities to honour all his promises and obligations taken on by accepting to enter this co-operation as he initially agreed to. I have for very long protected Bard’s fine reputation on this forum by not – until now – posting this negative feedback. It is therefore with much sadness that I can think of no other last chance to get Brad to pay me what he owes me, and get him to ship me all my ThinkPad’s and parts, than by posting this. I have tried to call Brad many, many, many times via the phone (at home, at work, to his mobile) to try to sort out this whole “thing”, but my calls are never being picked up… maybe Brad simply do not wish to talk to me?

I have simply no idea of why Brad is treating me like described in this post, since I have always been totally honest, friendly, helpful, understanding, open, relaxed and extremely patient with Brad. Today, in mid-July 2010, I just think that this affair has gone way too far. I have completely lost all faith in Brad’s promises. I have no idea of what to do.

In conclusion, by posting this I kindly ask the forum.thinkpad.com members for suggestions and help about to end this very sad matter. Thank you very much in advance for any constructive help.

With deep regret and much sadness having to post this,

Johan

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IBM T42p's (2373-Q1U & -Q2U): 2.1 GHz, 15" UXGA FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 128 MB FireGL T2, 128 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 1.5 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win XP Pro


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:41 am
Posts: 1675
Location: Long Island New York
I regret that this is happening. I apologize Johan that I have not paid you everything I owe and have not sent back the parts. Johan is fair, understanding and 100% correct. My failure to live up to my responsibilities has caused Johan much pain that he doesn't deserve. While my broken promises are well detailed I am making a commitment to pay everything owed and ship all parts in the next couple of weeks.

Brad

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:34 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Moscow, RU
Please help me. I've bought T60 from forum member. I received it yesterday. But laptop is defectife. Multiburner doesn't read CD. Windows XP doesn't install from recovery disks. Error 999 appears. I'd like to return this laptop but seller doesn't answer to my e-mail. What should I do? Open dispute in PayPal?

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