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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Hi everybody!

I've bought an used X40 with a (according to the seller) defective hard disk. While I'm waiting for her to arrive (hopefully before X-mas), I'm thinking which HDD to buy.

As you probably have noticed in the title of the topic, I'm not interested in buying an SSD for now! To make things clear from the beginning. It's not that I'm against SSDs, is just that for this particular purpose I want to stick to a normal HDD and also show that there are plenty of options available. This is known to many of the forum members here, but I still read many times people or forum members being afraid/scared to buy X4x series due to the infamous "1.8 HDD are rare & expensive" preconception.

So far this is the list of HDDs I'm following:

-Toshiba 60GB MK6028GAL
-Toshiba 80GB MK8009GAH
-Toshiba 80GB MK8022GAA (3600 RPM) :? Good choice for low power consumption fans
-Toshiba 80GB MK8025GAL - (My personal choice :thumbs-UP: , see benchmarks at the end of this page)
-Toshiba 100GB MK1011GAH
-Toshiba 120GB MK1214GAH
-Toshiba 160GB MK1634GAL
-Samsung 60GB HS06THB (Working fine in one of my X41's)
-Samsung 80GB HS081HA
-Samsung 80GB HS082HB
-Samsung 120GB HS12YHA
-Samsung 120GB HS122JC

All of them using a ZIF/IDE adapter of course... (like this one)

May I asked people that have/had one of these models to give me your feedback about them and in best case post some benchmarks? I know some of the drives above are in a table compiled by sjthinkpader in this topic here, and others were bought by others forums members with no benchmarks posted, but the informations is quite dispersed, some of them in really long topics. That's why I'm asking again for the information.

For those experts in storage/HDDs, any comment about the properties, advantages & disadvantages of each model are welcome. For example, I see both Samsung & Toshiba have 2 80GB models, my guess is that the "newer" the model number the better. But it's just my gut feeling only.

One last thing. I'm specially interested in performance. Let's say drive A has more capacity than drive B, but drive B is faster, I will probably stick to drive B. Of course I will then have to consider things like availability, seriouness of the seller and so on, but performance is my main criteria/driver.

I'm looking forward to the feedback comment and replies!

Cheers!

Tasurinchi

@Edit: Added Toshiba 100GB MK1011GAH
@Edit 16.01.2010: Added Samsung 120GB HS12YHA (thanks ThinkRob)
@Edit 08.03.2010: Added Toshiba 80GB MK8022GAA
@Edit 24.03.2010: Deleted the Toshiba MKxx31Gxx/MKxx34Gxx (see my post 24.03.2010)

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Last edited by Tasurinchi on Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:40 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Wow! Post one at a time please :D (I'm probably the only dinosaur looking for HDDs in the SSD era)

In the meantime, I've found this site: http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net

There are plenty of HDD benchmarks there, very interesting page... According to their results I've sorted out my list by the rating scored by each model:

Rating / Model
218 - Toshiba 80GB MK8025GAL
212 - Samsung 80GB HS082HB
197 - Toshiba 60GB MK6028GAL

196 - Samsung 60GB HS06THB
177 - Samsung 120GB HS122JC
159 - Toshiba 120GB MK1214GAH
150 - Toshiba 100GB MK1011GAH
139 - Toshiba 80GB MK8009GAH
N/A - Samsung 80GB HS081HA

This picture is very interesting. Looks like the popular (for X4x series) 120GB models are just middle field only. I was really surprised to find the Samsung HS122JC in the second half of the table, considering that it's a 5400RPM drive :!: . I was expecting it to be on the top.

I can't find any benchmarks for the Samsung 80GB HS081HA in the Net, will have to keep trying.

Up to now looks like the winners are the 80GB models, I will keep searching for more benchmarks tough before making any decision.

Cheers...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:49 am 
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Good job and excellent post. thanks
I have been using a Toshiba 120GB MK1214GAH in my X40 for about half a year now. Working well so far.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:05 am 
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guanghua19 wrote:
I have been using a Toshiba 120GB MK1214GAH in my X40

Many thanks for the feedback! Do you have some benchmarks figures? I was trying to find some numbers in this forum and in Internet, but couldn't get any.

In the meantime I've ordered the Toshiba MK8025GAL (80GB). I could find some benchmarks for it and it looked very fast at an affordable price. It will take a while to arrive here (has to swim over from Asia :)), but once it does I will publish the Crystal Benchmark.

Cheers from the Alps and Merry X-Mas!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:37 am 
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I too would be interested in how the 120gb drives perform in real life. Its a bit counter-intuitive that their Passmark ratings are so mediocre.


Last edited by chener on Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:44 pm 
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chener wrote:
Its a bit counter-intuitive that their Passmark ratings are so mediocre

There are benchmarks in this forum for the Samsung HS122JC, but I find it too expensive. So far the only source I found for comparison was this Passmark site and a German one containing tests of few of the drives of my original list. A shame no many people care doing benchmarking of 1.8 drives these days :(

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:50 pm 
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So if you had to choose among the bottom three, price not being a factor, which one would it be?

218 - Toshiba 80GB MK8025GAL
212 - Samsung 80GB HS082HB
159 - Toshiba 120GB MK1214GAH


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:58 pm 
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chener wrote:
price not being a factor, which one would it be?

I've decided for the first one! (MK8025GAL), basically because of the two only sites I could find in the internet (as described in my post above) having information on those three.

It was also cheaper than the other two. Due to X-mas it may take a while to arrive. My guess is end of January 2010

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:10 pm 
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I'm a battery life junkie -- I've been tweaking the hell out of my X40 trying to get maximum battery life, since I use my laptop for long days of coding away from home -- so I've put together some stats on power usage (collated from the manufacturer's sites). I figured it might be useful to power-conscious upgraders...

---

Toshiba MK6028GAL (60GB) & Toshiba MK8025GAL (80GB)

Spin-up 1.8 W
Seek 1.1 W
Read/Write 1.0 W
Active Idle 0.4 W
Low Power Idle 0.3 W
Standby 0.12 W
Sleep 0.07 W


source (MK6028GAL - 60GB)
source (MK8025GAL - 80GB)

---

Samsung HS122JC (120GB)

Spin-up 420 mA (1.386 W at 3.3V)
Seek 1.1 W
Read/Write 1.2 W
Idle 0.4 W
Standby 0.08 W
Sleep 0.08 W

source

---

Samsung HS081HA (80GB/3600RPM/2MB), Samsung HS081HB (80GB/4200RPM/2MB), Samsung HS083HB (80GB/4200RPM/8MB), Samsung HS161JB (160GB/4200RPM/2MB)

Spin-up 400 mA (1.32 W at 3.3V)
Seek 0.8 W
Read/Write (80GB) 0.9 W
Read/Write (120/160GB) 1.0 W
Idle 0.3 W
Standby 0.07 W
Slee 0.07 W

source

---

Samsung HS06THB (60GB/4200RPM/8MB), Samsung HS082HB (80GB/4200RPM/8MB)

Spin-up 400 mA (1.32 W at 3.3V)
Seek 0.8 W
Read/Write 0.9 W
Idle 0.3 W
Standby 0.07 W
Sleep 0.07 W

source (HS06THB - 60GB)
source (HS082HB - 80GB)

---

Samsung HS06YHA (60GB/3600RPM/8MB), Samsung HS08YHA (80GB/3600RPM/8MB), Samsung HS12YHA (120GB/3600RPM/8MB)

Spin-up 400 mA (1.32 W at 3.3V)
Seek 0.6 W
Read/Write 0.7 W
Idle 0.3 W
Standby 0.07 W
Sleep 0.07 W

source (HS06YHA - 60GB)
source (HS08YHA - 80GB)
source (HS12YHA - 120GB)

---

Toshiba MK1214GAH (120GB/4200RPM/8MB)

Spin-up 1.8 W
Seek 1.1 W
Read/Write 1.0 W
Idle 0.4 W
Standby 0.12 W
Sleep 0.07 W

source (MK1214GAH - 120GB) -- retrieved from Archive.org, since it's no longer on Toshiba's site

---

Toshiba MK1011GAH (100GB/4200RPM/8MB)

Spin-up 1.8 W
Seek 1.1 W
Read/Write 1.0 W
Idle 0.3 W
Standby 0.12 W
Sleep 0.07 W

source (MK1011GAH - 100GB)

---

Toshiba MK8009GAH (80GB/4200RPM/2MB or 8MB)

Spin-up 1.8 W
Seek 1.1 W
Read/Write 1.0 W
Idle 0.4 W
Standby 0.12 W
Sleep 0.07 W

source (MK8009GAH - 80GB)

---

Toshiba MK1231GAL (120GB/4200RPM/8MB), Toshiba MK2431GAH (240GB/4200RPM/8MB)

Spin-up 1.8 W
Seek 0.9 W
Read/Write 0.8 W
Idle 0.4 W
Standby 0.1 W
Sleep 0.07 W

source
---

From the above, the clear winners are the Samsung HS06YHA, HS08YHA, and HS12YHA. The power usage is quite remarkable -- that's considerably lower than most SSDs, and the capacity's nothing to be ashamed of either. Performance wise they'll suite my needs, so all that remains is to source a couple...

Edit: worked out the amperage/wattage conversions for the drives that didn't list spin-up wattage.

Edit #2: Fixed transcription error in HS161JB buffer size. Thanks, p78!

Edit: #3 (03-Jan-09): Added Toshiba MK1231GAL and MK2431GAH.

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Last edited by ThinkRob on Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Wow... That's am impresive list you put there... Good Job! 8)

I just noted that the winners are all 3600RPM. Aren't they very slow? I understand that you are focused on power consumption, but don't you need more performance if you code a lot?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Good list, thanks !

BTW the "Samsung HS161JB (160GB/4200RPM/8MB)" has actually a 2MB cache (I've just checked it on the spec sheet that you pointed to)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:06 pm 
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p78 wrote:
Good list, thanks !

BTW the "Samsung HS161JB (160GB/4200RPM/8MB)" has actually a 2MB cache (I've just checked it on the spec sheet that you pointed to)


Good catch. Fixed.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:17 pm 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
Wow... That's am impresive list you put there... Good Job! 8)

I just noted that the winners are all 3600RPM. Aren't they very slow? I understand that you are focused on power consumption, but don't you need more performance if you code a lot?


Well it makes sense that they're all 3600RPM drives -- spinning a drive at a slower speed requires less power.

As for my performance needs: no, I don't really need a high-RPM drive. The sort of coding that I do on the X40 doesn't need much in the way of drive performance -- compiles are few and far between (I do a ton of stuff in interpreted languages), and none of the software I write is I/O bound (at least not locally.)

The seek times and latencies aren't that bad (compared to other 1.8" ZIF drives), and the throughput is sufficient for my needs.

Sure, it's not as nice as an SSD -- but given the space, price, and power consumption, it's gonna be hard to beat.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:42 pm 
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And the list grows... Found yesterday a new drive to add to my list. It's a single platter Toshiba MK1231GAL (120MB, 4200rpm).

Specs here.

Cheers...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
And the list grows... Found yesterday a new drive to add to my list. It's a single platter Toshiba MK1231GAL (120MB, 4200rpm).

Specs here.

Cheers...



That doesn't look that bad, but the specs are kinda middling. The rotation speed's higher (as is the spin-up and write power draws), but the seek speed and latency don't really seem to be much improved over the other drives.

I've added it to the list, along with it's big brother: the 240GB (!) MK2431GAH. Found a different spec sheet with a bit more detail too -- that's how I discovered the MK1231GAL had a 240GB sibling -- and have posted the link above.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:55 am 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
-- that's how I discovered the MK1231GAL had a 240GB sibling --

You missed my topic about that one. From the discussions there it looks like it cannot be used in notebooks :?: That's why I did not put it in the list.

There is also a smaller sibling, the MK8031GAL. I just realize now that I completely forgot to add it in my list as well. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:08 am 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
You missed my topic about that one. From the discussions there it looks like it cannot be used in notebooks :?: That's why I did not put it in the list.


I didn't see your thread on it, sorry.

That said, I don't see why the 4K physical block size is a no-go. It just seems like it can't be used to boot Windows; I haven't seen anything indicating that it can't be used with other, more flexible OSs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:16 am 
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ThinkRob wrote:
I didn't see your thread on it, sorry.
No problem! I wanted to add a smiley to it but in the rush of typing I forgot it completely.

ThinkRob wrote:
I don't see why the 4K physical block size is a no-go
Well, I have no clue and I'm too lazy to spend time investigating this issue. I would love try installing any Linux distro on it, but it's too expensive to buy one just for fun... It would be great if it works and also would add an impressive storage space for the X4 series...

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:55 am 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
Well, I have no clue and I'm too lazy to spend time investigating this issue. I would love try installing any Linux distro on it, but it's too expensive to buy one just for fun... It would be great if it works and also would add an impressive storage space for the X4 series...


The more I think about it, the more puzzled I am by the claim that the 4K sector size is a problem -- there are other drives that use physical 4K sectors, and I haven't been able to find reports of them being unusable. Now admittedly, the locations I look for that sort of thing don't tend to pay much heed to Windows XP compatibility... but I'd be amazed if the sector size was all there was to it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:48 pm 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
And the list grows... Found yesterday a new drive to add to my list. It's a single platter Toshiba MK1231GAL (120MB, 4200rpm).

Specs here.

Cheers...


I'm wondering how this drive compares performance-wise to the MK1214GAH?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:07 pm 
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chener wrote:
I'm wondering how this drive compares performance-wise to the MK1214GAH?
The easiest way to find out is buying both :D

Jokes aside, I don't even know how the MK1214GAH performs, it seems to be a popular drive here in this forum, but I have seen no benchmarks so far. I can't wait to have my MK8025GAL to run a benchmark and post it here...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Looks like the whole MKXX31GAL familiy has also a 4K sector size:

80GB Model.
120GB Model

So far the only place I could find a price for the 80GB is here. 66€, around 95 USD. Ebay has no prices yet, maybe the drive is too new? (or too old)...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
Looks like the whole MKXX31GAL familiy has also a 4K sector size:

80GB Model.
120GB Model

So far the only place I could find a price for the 80GB is here. 66€, around 95 USD. Ebay has no prices yet, maybe the drive is too new? (or too old)...


E-mailed my supplier - I was quoted a price of $240 :eek: for the MK1231GAL!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:55 am 
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chener wrote:
I was quoted a price of $240 :eek: for the MK1231GAL!
That sounds insane expensive... Prices and Ebay are around 115 USD, as you can see here

Maybe he quoted the 240GB model?

Cheers...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Hey guys!

The Toshiba MK8025GAL arrived two days ago :shock: But I just could pick it up today. It arrived much faster than expected...

I'm typing this in my still-under-resurrection-process X40, where I have quickly installed the drive and Ubuntu Karmic via USB Stick. I don't know any software in Ubuntu to run a performance test (appart from Bonnie++, but the output is not very user friendly) but here my first impressions:

- Drive is very silent! Granted, I only have experience using the 40GB & 60GB stock models, but this drive is so silent I haven't hear any "click" noises yet
- Karmic bootet in 55 seconds. As comparison, the 2.5 WD 320GB in my X31 used to boot Karmic in 45sec. Karmic in my X41 bootet in 1:20"
- Drives feels very snappy. Applications start much faster than in my X41, which has actually more RAM (see sig below)

I'll check tomorrow if the IT guys from my company can lend me an external DVD-ROM and I will install Win7 to run CrystalDisk benchmarks and post the results here. I was thinking in using Wine to run CrystalDismMark from Karmic but I have a feeling it's a bad idea. :?

I'm really excited to see the benchmarks results!

Cheers!

Tasurinchi

Edited: several typos

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Neat!

Battery/power draw figures would be appreciated too. In theory the drive is more power-intensive than the original Travelstar that it shipped with, but "hurry up and sleep" might help cut down on overall power consumption.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:02 pm 
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ThinkRob wrote:
Battery/power draw figures would be appreciated too
No problem! But I will need some guidance where to get the data from Linux/Ubuntu. Most of the time I use my TPs from the couch and connected to AC adapter. I rarely use the battery :oops:

Now I'm heading to bed but I will check tomorrow!

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:02 pm 
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powertop will happily supply you with power draw stats, provided you're not connected to mains.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:32 am 
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ThinkRob wrote:
powertop will happily supply you with power draw stats, provided you're not connected to mains.
Just realized this is a program for Linux. I thougt first it could run under Win7 too. I'm still fighting with Win7 in my X40 to get the graphic drivers working properly. As soon as I'm done with the Crystal benchmarks I'll go back to Ubuntu and run Powertop. After almost two days fighting with Microschrott products I can't wait to go back to Ubuntu. Works great in the X40... :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:26 am 
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Tasurinchi wrote:
Just realized this is a program for Linux. I thougt first it could run under Win7 too. I'm still fighting with Win7 in my X40 to get the graphic drivers working properly. As soon as I'm done with the Crystal benchmarks I'll go back to Ubuntu and run Powertop. After almost two days fighting with Microschrott products I can't wait to go back to Ubuntu. Works great in the X40... :wink:


Sorry, I should have specified.

Yes, I prefer Linux to Windows (although I use both). Can't say I'm really a fan of Ubuntu, but I'm glad you like it.

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