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 Post subject: Where to go from X61T
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:18 pm 
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So my Thinkpads have been A21p, T42p and X61T (currently in use). The time is now coming to look for replacement of X61T.

The A21p and T42p (both 15" UXGA, T42p is IPS) were intended as mobile workstations. I needed to do graphics on remote locations.

The X61T is more of a runaround. I take it everyhwere and I use it for office type of work, reading, watching movies. There are a few issues coming up and it looks like I'll have to look for replacement. I don't have a problem with used, but I'd like same or newer.

My requriements are:
- 1400x1050 or 1440x900 or 1600x900 or higher
- IPS
- 14" or less. The lower the merrier
- 2kg or less (could be 2.3 but I'd prefer not 2.8kg that the A21p with 3 spindles weighed)
- 4GB, preferably 8GB possible


So I guess the good display Thinkpads are:
Current
X220/X220 tablet
W520
Previous
T60p X61T W510

The good resolution is currently only T420s and 15.6 FHDs. There is also X300/X200 but screens there are not so good. Actually X300 doesn't have a bad screen and I like the notebook. The wide 15 inchers are too big. I'd rather have a desktop with dual monitors since 15.6 is nigh unportable. I have Lenovo USB keyboard with trackpoint and G9x.

I don't care much for CPU speed as what I do is not CPU limited. RAM and HDD I can always upgrade myself.

What is the screen on T420s? I saw one HP with 1600x900 and while it was not IPS it wasn't that bad. Still I'd rather have slower CPU and IPS than newer CPU and bad monitor.
Should I just look for another pristine X61T (I'd rather have the tablet than X61 with SXGA+). I have 2 docks and Ultrabay DVD burner for the tablet. Should I get T60p and max it with 64-bit CPU?
The X200/X220 are a downgrade resolution wise, which is bad for productivity.

I'm also open to alternative makers but would not like HP or Dell.
What about macs? Which have more than 1366x768?

I'm not alone in this. Recently I saw consultant who had 15" IPS T43p and had replaced the screen - he was running Linux. I'm sure he could have bought a newer laptop if he preferred. Also most people on lenovoblogs are whining about lack of IPS and vertical resolution.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:16 am 
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I am not familiar of any newer models that will combine the high resolution you want with an IPS screen. Newer Lenovo tablets are 1200x800 or 1366x768. X220 is the same. I haven't exactly been keeping up-to-date with tablet offerings from others, but if there was something exciting such as super high-res, we'd hear about it on the forum, I'm sure. :)

The high-res IPS screens currently offered in laptops are in DELL's/HP's 15-17" workstations - obviously not the direction you're looking at.

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Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X61 7673-V2V
Collectibles: X32 w/ IPS Screen, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:09 am 
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My understanding is that right now, there are only five laptops with IPS screens:
Thinkpad X220 (12.5" 1366x768)
Dell Precision M4600 (15.6" 1920x1080)
Dell Precision M6600 (17.3" 1920x1080)
HP Elitebook 8560w (15.6" 1920x1080)
HP Elitebook 8760w (17.3" 1920x1080).

Utwig wrote:
- 1400x1050 or 1440x900 or 1600x900 or higher


This requirement rules out the X220.

Utwig wrote:
- 14" or less. The lower the merrier


This rules out the other four IPS laptops.

Utwig wrote:
- 2kg or less (could be 2.3 but I'd prefer not 2.8kg that the A21p with 3 spindles weighed)


Among the four Dell and HP laptops, the lightest is the Precision M4600, which "starts at" 2.79 kg according to Dell. I am almost certain that "starts at" means with the optical drive removed, assuming it can be removed.

Utwig wrote:
Actually X300 doesn't have a bad screen...What is the screen on T420s? I saw one HP with 1600x900 and while it was not IPS it wasn't that bad.


It sounds like you can tolerate pretty lousy screens. As I said above, if you insist on IPS, none of the currently available laptops would work for you. So, perhaps you should relax your requirement and settle for a non-IPS laptop.

Utwig wrote:
Should I just look for another pristine X61T (I'd rather have the tablet than X61 with SXGA+).


This is entirely up to you.

Utwig wrote:
Should I get T60p and max it with 64-bit CPU?


The T60p can't use more than 3GB of RAM, even with a 64-bit CPU.

Utwig wrote:
I'm also open to alternative makers but would not like HP or Dell.


Why not? Are you familiar with the HP Elitebooks and Dell Precisions? I frequent the Notebookreview.com forum and over there, many people who have extensive experience with both Thinkpads and the Elitebooks rank the Elitebooks above most Thinkpads. They also rank the Precisions very high. Don't confuse HP's and Dell's business-class laptops with their consumer-class garbage.

Utwig wrote:
What about macs? Which have more than 1366x768?


The 13.3" Macbook Air has 1440x900. The 15.4" Macbook Pro has a 1680x1080 option although the default is 1440x900. The 17.0" Macbook Pro has 1920x1200 -- it's probably the only laptop that still uses this perfect resolution.

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Dell Inspiron 7500; Gateway NX860X; HP EliteBook 8740w; Panasonic CF-Y9; Sony Pro13, VGN-P530CH
Dell OptiPlex 9010 & 760, Precision 390; HP d7900, Elite 8300, 8200 & 8000
Dell 3008WFP,U2711,2408WFP,sp2309w,ST2220M,ST2210B,2007FP; HP ZR2740w,L2201x; Lenovo L220X; Samsung 2343BWX


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:03 pm 
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Utwig wrote:
What about macs? Which have more than 1366x768?


The 11.6" MacBook Air has 1366X768. The 13" MacBook Pro has 1280X00. ALL OTHER MACS have minimum 1440X900. While Apple doesn't offer any Mac laptop with an IPS screen, their TN screens are vastly superior to any non-IPS ThinkPad display I've ever seen, including a T400 LED and a brand-new X220i LED.

I have an IPS X220 on order, and should know how it compares when it arrives Monday or Tuesday.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:35 pm 
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Had exactly the same struggles you are having now. Asked exactly the same questions. I use Linux and do not need CPU, just needed a ton of RAM for VMs. Also had the dock and the UltraBase with DVDRW. While I liked the X60 tablet form factor, I never used the "tablet" feature aside from when I was watching movies on public transit and I got a new toy that is much more suited to doing that. When the battery died suddenly (3 hrs last night, not charging at all today) about 6 weeks ago. it began to feel incredibly bulky. Just my lust for a new toy methinks now.

I was fortunately able to access some options and tried for an extended period of time meaning 2 weeks+ each), in no particular order, an Thinkpad X201, a Thinkpad T400, a Thinkpad T410, a Dell E6410 - which, amazingly is an excellent machine from a display and functionality perspective - and an X61s. Also played around with some Mac products but could not bring myself to make the time and effort commitment required to learn a new OS.

I liked the X61s but hated the small display resolution after using an SXGA+ X60t for more than 2 years. It also helped that the X61s actually has a real honest to goodness 5.5 hr battery life.

So, just finished the X61s conversion to SXGA+ two nights ago, planning to sell the bits and pieces from the tablet and put in 8GB of RAM and a 1TB drive and I think that I will be there.

I know that you said that you were not interested in the conversion and I thought I was not as well until I had tried 5 other machines.

Just my thoughts, YMMV.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:27 pm 
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How much did you pay for display?

The thing is my X61T has developed a few bubbles to the right of the screen (inside scroll bar area), they are not showstoppers but are a sign of display going away.

Currently I'm most inclined towards another X61T + SSD + 8GB. Then buy another display for the original one and replace it. I need at least one notebook alive. I'd love IPS X220 or X220 Tablet (maybe one of clients will buy it so I'll be able to check it out) if it weren't for pathetic 1366x768. I need to remote into other machines and working with that resolution makes RDP inside RDP 800x600.

Dell: I saw one 6400 series that was purchased slightly after I bought X61T in used mint condition. The Dell was used by a girl which wasn't abusing it. After same amount of use (and I abuse my X61T more, also had a bike crash with it) dell developed blinking screen and screeching mouse button. Considering Dell cost about 1100 Euros I was expecting better quality.

HP: I'd rather have W5xx than 85xx series. I preferred my T42p to 8510 despite slower CPU. Thinkpad trackpoing+black+phenomenal keyboard+less noisy fan beats any advantages HP might have. I've had only Thinkpads.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:56 pm 
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Other than resolution and TN screen quality, the x220i I returned was far nicer in build ablnd most importantly in keyboad (full size on an X series) than any prior X series I'd seen, though I admit I never got to use an X20x.

I haven't received my X220 IPS yet, though from everything I've read it's display should be even better than that of my (TN) MacBook Air.

Other than OS (I'm a Mac user), I cannot imagine a better laptop except an X220 with higher resolution. Since there is no such animal, 1366x768 will do.

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"An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Utwig wrote:
How much did you pay for display?

The thing is my X61T has developed a few bubbles to the right of the screen (inside scroll bar area), they are not showstoppers but are a sign of display going away.

Currently I'm most inclined towards another X61T + SSD + 8GB. Then buy another display for the original one and replace it. I need at least one notebook alive. I'd love IPS X220 or X220 Tablet (maybe one of clients will buy it so I'll be able to check it out) if it weren't for pathetic 1366x768. I need to remote into other machines and working with that resolution makes RDP inside RDP 800x600.


I got my display by ripping the working one out of my X60t (not an X61t - huge difference since X60 is just CoreDuo - one thread minus two plus of course the biggie which is the 8GB RAM option that I am looking forward to moving to shortly). I actually have a perfectly good X60t sitting is my house now minus display. I did the display swap with all the associated work myself. While it is difficult, it is not impossible. Details here, it should come up as the first thread in the link.

I can hear you about needing a working machine. I am fortunate is that I still have the E6410 and T410 as backup options although the T410 will not be available shortly. I am of the opinion that my new modified X61s is still a better option than either machine though. My costs were low - about $260. I paid $219 for the X61s in very good condition from a local eBay seller (who also sold me the donor X60t maybe 18 months ago) and then another $50 in part & materials and then it was just 5 hours to do the mod. I need HDD space more than speed so I am still not considering SDDs as an option. I found that I never used the UltraBay aside from OS installs and never used the docking features often enough for them to be worth the money I would have to spend. In the last 3 years of having the UltraBase hooked up to a Dell 2407WFP at home, I used it maybe 10 times. When I part and sell the X60t, I actually expect to come out with maybe $100 in cash in my pocket even after buying RAM and an external DVDRW.

The only pieces I want to add now are an external DVDRW and moar RAM. I want that 8GB in RAM bad. I will be selling the X60t parts to fund this.

The way I see it, this mod allows me to extend the life of my X60t for maybe another 2 years for just $300. This amount will probably go down to $0 when I sell the X60t parts. At that point, I will come back and see what the market has to offer in 3 or 4 year old high end machines ((X220s Thinkpad, HP 27xx & 85xx series, maybe even an Alienware M11x, MacBook Pro or Sony Z-series etc).

Utwig wrote:
Dell: I saw one 6400 series that was purchased slightly after I bought X61T in used mint condition. The Dell was used by a girl which wasn't abusing it. After same amount of use (and I abuse my X61T more, also had a bike crash with it) dell developed blinking screen and screeching mouse button. Considering Dell cost about 1100 Euros I was expecting better quality.


It is my understanding that the Dell E6410s are in a class of their own - much much better than the E6400s and much better designed that the E6420 which in my opinion looks like a child's laptop, The organization I work for has had 2000+ i5 4GB E6410s out with staff for about 3 years now - leases are just expiring - and I hear mostly good things about them aside from some drama with installing proper drivers for the Intel 6300 Ultimate card. I like my work E6410 so much that I have refused to have it replaced with a new E6320 that they are offering me.

I unfortunately know nothing about HP machines: some of my contractors use the 85xx series and I have had a chance to play with the HP Elitebook 2740p tablet which I really liked - enough to buy it if I had the cash.

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Last edited by smugiri on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:00 am 
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smugiri wrote:
It is my understanding that the Dell E6410s are in a class of their own - much much better than the E6400s and much better designed that the E6420 which in my opinion looks like a child's laptop
.

On the Notebookreview forum, the consensus is that the E6400 and E6500 were not as solid as the D620/630 and D820/830. The E6410/6510 aren't discussed as much and so I don't know how they compare with their precursors, but in terms of physical appearance they look quite similar. The current E6420/6520 look very ugly, especially the E6420, but I have heard that they are much better built than the last two generations.

I plan on upgrading my current WUXGA D820 to the E6500. I find the E6500 beautiful and don't mind if it's slightly less solid than the D820. I don't want the E6510 or the E6520 because 1920x1080 is too low.

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Dell Inspiron 7500; Gateway NX860X; HP EliteBook 8740w; Panasonic CF-Y9; Sony Pro13, VGN-P530CH
Dell OptiPlex 9010 & 760, Precision 390; HP d7900, Elite 8300, 8200 & 8000
Dell 3008WFP,U2711,2408WFP,sp2309w,ST2220M,ST2210B,2007FP; HP ZR2740w,L2201x; Lenovo L220X; Samsung 2343BWX


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:03 pm 
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Sony?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:01 pm 
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macbook air or macbook pro with an ipad2?

wait few months and ipad 3 will appear with 2048x1536 IPS LCD. then pc makers will be forced to release high resolution notebook models when apple updates theirs with high resolution IPS displays.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:22 am 
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sanjuro wrote:
wait few months and ipad 3 will appear with 2048x1536 IPS LCD. then pc makers will be forced to release high resolution notebook models when apple updates theirs with high resolution IPS displays.
I'd love to see it happen, but people have been talking about IPS displays coming to Macbooks for about 3 years now, and where are they?

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Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X61 7673-V2V
Collectibles: X32 w/ IPS Screen, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:25 am 
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Waiting for IPS LCD manufacturers to come up with high resolution and low price and low power?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:43 am 
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waiting for monopoly to play nicely and be a good chap with price.....

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:26 am 
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lead_org wrote:
waiting for monopoly to play nicely and be a good chap with price.....
LOL!

More like an oligopoly though...

https://www.google.com/search?q=lcd+price+fixing

(Yeah, I know not everybody makes IPS screens... And perhaps sometimes monopoly/oligopoly is a "necessary evil" in capitalism...)

Cheers. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:57 am 
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Ultrabook with rumored 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 resolution:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/from-idf-re ... 13689.html


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:22 pm 
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sanjuro wrote:
Ultrabook with rumored 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 resolution:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/from-idf-re ... 13689.html


I'd love for that to happen.

The current state of the Thinkpad tablet resolutions is depressing.. from 1400x1050 to 1280x800 to 1368x768.. It's just getting wide and stubbier. There is already a 5" Samsung Note phone that has 1280x800 resolution..

The phones that people play with are rapidly getting awesome resolutions, and things we use for work are getting downgrades in resolution.

I also hope that the thinness of the ultrabooks will eventually translate to Thinkpad tablets..

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X22 - 800mhz - 640MB RAM - 60GB Hitachi 7200rpm 7k100
X40 - 1.4ghz - 1.5GB RAM - 8GB Transcend 300x CF on Addonics CF/IDE Adapter
T42p - 1.8ghz - 15" UXGA - 1GB RAM - 160GB HDD
X61t - C2D 1.6ghz - 12.1" SXGA+ - 8GB RAM - Intel G3 300GB SSD


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:41 pm 
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I snagged 14" T60p to add as complement to the X61 Tablet which will get a new display, SSD and 8GB of RAM. Maybe I'll get X220 tablet in the future.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:13 pm 
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Utwig wrote:
I snagged 14" T60p to add as complement to the X61 Tablet which will get a new display, SSD and 8GB of RAM. Maybe I'll get X220 tablet in the future.



Good for you, I am glad it worked well for you. What kind of screen are you looking for to put into the tablet?

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