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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:40 am 
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Back in 2009 I bought an X200s. Best laptop I've ever owned. Amazing screen resolution, perfect size when traveling, and powerful enough. Its battery was also very great. Even after I had it for about a year, the battery would sometimes charge up to a level *above* design capacity!

About a year later, after a weekend full of fun and with very little sleep, I had my mind switched off while getting off a plane and forgot to put my laptop back into my bag. Lost it. I bought a new X200s, which was just as great, except for its battery.

It's 2012 now and it only charges up to 55% of its original capacity. A year ago it was already limited to I guess 70%. Even with an SSD in it now, I can get at most two hours out of it when I'm not at home. That's really not enough.

In this topic I read about the difference between Sanyo and Panasonic batteries. My current battery's a Sanyo and indeed it's disappointing. My X200 from work has a pretty great battery and indeed, it's a Panasonic. The problem is, for X200 series only the 9-cell huge batteries can be bought with Panasonic cells.

I don't want a huge battery sticking out on the back of my laptop. I wonder what kind of battery I had on my first X200s.. What experiences do people here have with X200/X200s batteries? Are the 6-cell Sanyos some kind of "lottery"? Did I just get a bad Monday morning battery?

Someone in that topic was talking about CMP batteries making very good non-OEM batteries. I found one that should work with my laptop on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6cells-New-lapt ... 256c45c876). For that price I'm happy to try it out, I guess..


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:01 am 
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From everything I have read if you were disappointed with Sanyo you will most likely be disgusted with any non-OEM battery.

With the model and serial number information, if you know it, from your lost X200s the parts list you can view at lenovo.com should list the battery FRU or maybe even the manufacturer. With the FRU you can most likely determine the manufacturer.

Brad

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:56 am 
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Brad wrote:
From everything I have read if you were disappointed with Sanyo you will most likely be disgusted with any non-OEM battery.

With the model and serial number information, if you know it, from your lost X200s the parts list you can view at lenovo.com should list the battery FRU or maybe even the manufacturer. With the FRU you can most likely determine the manufacturer.

Good point about looking up the part# that way. Sadly I was never bright enough to write down the serial number anywhere. If I did I could've reported it as stolen and slightly increase the chance of getting back the actual laptop as well.. Either way, I already found a table with battery FRUs somewhere and the normal-size X200 batteries don't even exist in a non-Sanyo flavour. So I was just wondering what X200 batteries other people here have and how well they work.

About non-OEM: I'm specifically talking about this poster who claims his battery from CPM performed very well. Indeed that's quite different from other stories I read (nothing left after half a year and no response to warranty claims). That together with the $35 price of the one I found makes me worry..


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:50 pm 
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I wouldnt touch any non Lenovo battery with a ten foot pole. Most of them might even have faulty electronics which can explode on you. Its simply not worth the perceived cost savings.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:50 pm 
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wvdgaast wrote:
It's 2012 now and it only charges up to 55% of its original capacity.

Your time line isn't clear, but it seems likely that now is about 2 years down the track, and its also likely that you do use the battery frequently..... so for those conditions, 55% remaining is actually doing OK for a LiON laptop battery. :idea:

Cheers,

Bill B.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:21 am 
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bill bolton wrote:
Your time line isn't clear, but it seems likely that now is about 2 years down the track, and its also likely that you do use the battery frequently..... so for those conditions, 55% remaining is actually doing OK for a LiON laptop battery. :idea:

Really? Hmm. I've never really been impressed and the problem is, this one was only at 70-80% when the laptop was a year old already. The one that got stolen was still around 90% at the time (also when I had it for about a year) IIRC.

Meanwhile, the X200 battery from my work laptop, with Panasonic cells, and of approximately the same age BTW, is currently charged up to 93% of its design capacity! Admittedly, I use that laptop a little bit less than my personal one, OTOH it often enough gets discharged completely (because I forget about it and leave it sleeping in my bag for days) which is often a battery killer as well I heard.

LinSanity: The reason I was looking at CMP was performance, not price. Price indeed doesn't matter. I know laptops are expensive and am okay with that as I use them a lot. :-) I'm unimpressed by the performance of my current original Lenovo battery. I guess the only choice I have is the 9-cell Panasonic sticking out at the back of my laptop. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:29 pm 
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My 2009 panasonic is still rated 74 Wh out of 84.xx Wh capacity @169 cycle count. They are truly superior. Most of my Sanyo one are in the recycling dump now. They never lasted as long


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:13 am 
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rsutoratosu wrote:
My 2009 panasonic is still rated 74 Wh out of 84.xx Wh capacity @169 cycle count. They are truly superior. Most of my Sanyo one are in the recycling dump now. They never lasted as long

And this is what I keep hearing (and indeed what I experienced myself). I don't understand why Lenovo then only produces some battery flavours with Sanyo cells. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Knockoff batteries really aren't that bad. I've used them in a wide range of devices over the years, and have only ever had one issue. This is the same record I have with OEM batteries. The capacity on a cheap battery definitely isn't is a good as a new one, but it isn't significantly worse and they're not going to explode on you. Personally, it comes down to economics. If you can find a decent capacity genuine battery used or old stock somewhere, then that's probably the best course. New batteries from most OEMs (including Lenovo) are just so expensive.

For what its worth, here's the stats from my X200s Sanyo 9-cell:

First used date: 11-2009
Cycles: 124
69.4/84.24

Trying to find a 6 cell...never find myself needing the capacity I have.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:10 pm 
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I’ve been looking for a UK supplier of Cameron Sino laptop batteries or months, with little success. I happened upon the CMP eBay store a few weeks ago and decided to do a little research into company.

CMP seemed to be a legitimate third party manufacturer and claims to use cells from Samsung, Sanyo, BAK and other reputable makers.

I went ahead and ordered a CMP battery for my X200, it arrived via 4PX tracked courier, on Tuesday.

It fits quite well, not as perfectly as the Lenovo battery, but more than adequately. Power Manager initially indicated a full capacity of 52.65Wh, this rose to 53.19Wh after three full recalibrations.

Initial impression is that the CMP battery could well be a competent third party battery but probably not of OEM quality. This relative, taking into account the difference in cost. Lenovo wants £140+ for a 6 cell battery, the CMP cost me £22.99.

Time will tell, of course, but if I get two years use out of this battery I will be quite satisfied.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:59 am 
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Stan wrote:
I’ve been looking for a UK supplier of Cameron Sino laptop batteries or months, with little success. I happened upon the CMP eBay store a few weeks ago and decided to do a little research into company.

CMP seemed to be a legitimate third party manufacturer and claims to use cells from Samsung, Sanyo, BAK and other reputable makers.

I went ahead and ordered a CMP battery for my X200, it arrived via 4PX tracked courier, on Tuesday.

Yup, I have the same feeling about CMP, it seems like better than the average knock-off and for this money it's worth a shot as I would be very unhappy if Lenovo would give me a poor battery again for the money they charge.

Which eBay account did you buy yours from?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:00 am 
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I got mine from "cmp_battery2011" on eBay UK.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:00 am 
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I have mine from there as well now. It was packed very well, looks fine, and holds a decent charge. I had to go to sleep last night before I could fully empty the battery.

Of course the real test will be how it lasts over the next year. But at least Lenovo's original batteries set a pretty low bar.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:23 pm 
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wvdgaast wrote:
But at least Lenovo's original batteries set a pretty low bar.

As a matter of interest....... how many laptop batteries of any type have you used so far in your life?

Cheers,

Bill B.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:15 pm 
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As far batteries are concerned, from my perspective, I have to be pragmatic. I have had no axe to grind with the quality of IBM/ Lenovo products at all.

I have a much respected T42 (that may die at any time) and have no access to new OEM batteries for it in the UK (it seems the situation may be the same on mainland Europe). I need to find a reliable third party battery manufacturer, there is no other recourse.

My preferred third party battery manufacturer, Cameron Sino/ CS Technology, does not have a UK/ European supplier, I had to buy my CS mobile 'phone batteries from a supplier in the US. Unfortunately, that supplier does not deal in laptop/ netbook batteries.

For many "legacy" ThinkPad owners in some areas of the Globe, the only way is "knock off" (third party).

The chore is finding a supplier of non- OEM batteries that is/are reliable rather than being up to OEM spec.

I've used laptops since the days when they only came in Vanilla plastic and had NiCad batteries (impressive longevity on those old battery packs, if properly managed).

I paid £166 for my used P8400 model X200 and I love it to bits (much like my T42), but spending £142 on a battery for it from Lenovo would seem imprudent, IMO.

I hope that the CMP range of batteries is capable of fulfilling the needs of devotees of older ThinkPads that can't find new OEM batteries, or can't find them at a price that makes economical sense.

I hope to report back after some months, but a reminder might be useful. :wink:

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Last edited by Stan on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:31 am 
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wvdgaast wrote:
I don't understand why Lenovo then only produces some battery flavours with Sanyo cells. :(
Every manufacturer tries to get several suppliers for the same part. Sometimes for a particular part they can only get one or two, sometimes three or four. Rest assured that Lenovo is not the only one that does so, and they are not worse than any other laptop manufacturer in this sense (except perhaps Panasonic). ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:13 am 
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dr_st wrote:
Every manufacturer tries to get several suppliers for the same part. Sometimes for a particular part they can only get one or two, sometimes three or four. Rest assured that Lenovo is not the only one that does so, and they are not worse than any other laptop manufacturer in this sense (except perhaps Panasonic). ;)

Heh. Yes, more than happy to believe that. I wasn't really trying to blame Lenovo directly so much; even with all my complaints about their batteries here, I do still believe they make the best laptops.

Bill: I'm not very demanding when it comes to performance so it's very well possible that I just stick to laptops for longer than the average consumer and get to experience batteries that are getting old. I've owned several second hand laptops (and batteries) in my life, but they were all still fairly usable even though they were 1-2y old already.

While my first X200s' battery was still in fantastic shape (in the first few months it'd charge up to more than its design capacity regularly), the second one just never did that and generally started getting bad within the first year already. And as I already said before, the 9-cell Panasonic battery in my X200 from work (a few months older than my X200s) still charges up to 90% of its original capacity. 90% and 55%, that's a pretty significant difference. So I really don't believe that 55% after two years is good. As I mentioned, to me it feels more like a lottery which is why I'm trying out a third party battery now. If it turns out to suck, at least I get what I paid for instead of only 20% of that. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:40 pm 
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I've been using the CMP battery for a month now, I decided to recalibrate it to see if there is any degredation in capacity.

Power manager last reported a capacity of 53.19Wh, after this recalibration it reports 53.63Wh. No degredation thus far, I'm happy to report. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Yep, I'm quite happy too. Mine's up to 54Wh now, 110.69% of its design capacity. And still climbing.

Let's see how it is in a year. At least for now my laptop is very suitable for travel again. :D

One possible problem though. It seems to me that because full capacity is consistently higher than the claimed design capacity (possibly a marketing trick to make the battery look like it stays good for longer?), the mechanism that decides whether to start charging or not doesn't work and it starts a charge cycle even if I plug in the charger with 53Wh still in the battery (i.e. if I just took the laptop from one room to the other). I hope I can change that behaviour a little bit..


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Stan wrote:
I've been using the CMP battery for a month now, I decided to recalibrate it to see if there is any degredation in capacity.

Power manager last reported a capacity of 53.19Wh, after this recalibration it reports 53.63Wh. No degredation thus far, I'm happy to report. :wink:

How's yours doing now? I'm still quite happy with mine. Dipped down to 106% or so recently but now charged up to 108.15% (52.8 Wh) again. I'm pretty sure at this point that buying an original battery would be a waste.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:22 pm 
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wvdgaast wrote:
How's yours doing now? I'm still quite happy with mine. Dipped down to 106% or so recently but now charged up to 108.15% (52.8 Wh) again. I'm pretty sure at this point that buying an original battery would be a waste.


Sorry, I just spotted your post today.

The CMP I have is now shown to be at 52.85 Wh by Power Manager. The battery seems fairly comparable to the one you got, at least there seems to be some consistency. Barring catastrophic failure I suspect the CMP batteries may last quite well.

But of course, only time will tell.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:19 am 
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A year and a half later seems like a good point to report how the battery is doing. I'll admit, it's not in great shape anymore. Charges up to 71.72% now. I've had a few cases where I forgot to connect my laptop to the charger and walked away from it. Batteries don't enjoy getting drained completely so maybe that didn't help. Or maybe they really just get old faster.

So yeah, no superb performance but since Lenovo, for 4× the price, can't guarantee me great performance either, I'm not complaining too loudly about it.

I will however keep complaining about how not all batteries have Panasonic cells. Compare my CMP battery:

cycle_count:150
design_capacity:48840
first_use_date:2012-03-23
last_full_capacity:35030 (so 71.72%)
manufacture_date:2012-02-02

Against the Panasonic still in my X200 from work:

cycle_count:446
design_capacity:84240
first_use_date:2009-11-10
last_full_capacity:71090 (84.38% after nearly four years !!)
manufacture_date:2009-08-17

Now I don't use the work laptop as much as my own, but the cycle count shouldn't lie.

So IMHO: Third party batteries are much cheaper than original batteries. As long as it's cheaper for me to go through a cycle of buying a third party that will serve me well for the first year and well enough for some time after, or buy an original one for 3-4 times the price, hope it will last 3-4 times as long, but sometimes get disappointed after a year .. I'll stick with decent-reputation third parties.

As long as I use the X200s, that is. A true shame Lenovo's new laptops all have crappy screens...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:23 am 
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Actually, I bought my folks a CMP battery for their laptop as well and its numbers look better. Also, SMAPI reports Panasonic cells (for mine it reports Sanyo), but I have no clue whether that info is reliable in a third party battery.. :)

cycle_count:186
design_capacity:73260
first_use_date:2012-05-27
last_full_capacity:67820
manufacture_date:2011-08-15
manufacturer:Panasonic

So that's 92% with a higher cycle count, even. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:56 pm 
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I'm looking for a source to buy a decent quality battery for my X200s at a good price. Of course there are a ton of knock-offs and third parties available on ebay, but it's hard to know which seller to trust.

I can't afford to spend $200 on a new battery for a computer that I only paid $200 for in the first place. I'm in Canada... any suggestions? I'm looking for a 9-cell.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:39 am 
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So, I guess this will be my last response in this topic: As said, the CMP battery did degrade after a year. And yesterday its mechanism broke in a way that I can't or at least likely shouldn't use it anymore. Plastic shielding in between pins broke, so that could possibly cause a short between two pins that you really don't want to short.

The laptop itself is also nearing its end of useful life I'm afraid (which sucks because everything new on the market ATM is complete rubbish). I'm glad I didn't waste >$100 on a battery that would probably also be useless by now, but likely its mechanism would have been more robust.

(Meanwhile, the battery with 9 Panasonic cells in my work X200 still charges up to 87%, giving me four hours of battery time in my X200s (and only about half that in the X200).)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Hello there,

I own an x200s (bought from a member of the forum), which has a lenovo 9-cell battery (I suspect Sanyo cells, because it was already mediocre when I bought it).
Now, it gives me 2 hours on WiFi operation, and that is not a good performance.

Should I go for an Ebay seller of a 6-cell battery, to reduce the weight at least?
Any good experiences?

Cheers,
N.F.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Worth a shot. As said, you never know how good they are. Even with the expensive ones. :-( So you're better off buying getting a cheap deal for your also-cheap laptop.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Just my 2 cents regarding the manufacturers of the OEM batteries:

I went through a box of T60 batteries today. The results were consistent. While the Sanyo batteries were all either completely dead or had next to no charge left, the Panasonic batteries and SONY batteries still had 70% or more. In fact the SONY batteries were more likely to have 100%, though it might have just been a coincidence. So both, Panasonic and SONY are very good. One Panasonic that shocked me was a 6c from 2006 with 1230 cycles and 31Wh from 56Wh left. No comment.

I'm not that familiar with X200 batteries, but I'm pretty sure you should be able to get a SONY battery for them as well, perhaps even a 6c.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 am 
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Aurora wrote:
In fact the SONY batteries were more likely to have 100%, though it might have just been a coincidence. So both, Panasonic and SONY are very good.
Unfortunately, no. It's just that Sony batteries lie, and their gauges always show 100% regardless of the actual capacity. A worn out Sony battery will just go suddenly from 60% to 5% or die out of the blue. That's been my experience with several of them. They age worse than Panasonic ones, in my experience, though maybe (sometimes) better than Sanyo ones, not sure on that. Also, historically, Sony batteries seem to have been subject to more recalls, and quite often sudden death syndrome. All in all, they are my least favorite of the three, simply because their gauges lie and so you never know how much juice you really have.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:08 am 
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dr_st wrote:
Unfortunately, no. It's just that Sony batteries lie, and their gauges always show 100% regardless of the actual capacity. A worn out Sony battery will just go suddenly from 60% to 5% or die out of the blue. That's been my experience with several of them. They age worse than Panasonic ones, in my experience, though maybe (sometimes) better than Sanyo ones, not sure on that. Also, historically, Sony batteries seem to have been subject to more recalls, and quite often sudden death syndrome. All in all, they are my least favorite of the three, simply because their gauges lie and so you never know how much juice you really have.


Interesting, since it is impossible to test dozens of batteries for their actual running time, I just assumed that the power manager was showing me the correct numbers, especially since almost all of the batteries had been completely discharged. But thanks for the hint, you made me curious. I'll test some of the batteries, including the SONY's that say they have 100% left within the next days or so and see if they can hold their promises.

Most of the readings did seem somewhat legit to me, as the good batteries had very low cycle counts. But then again, after years of storage, this doesn't have to mean anything.

Personally, I also prefer Panasonic batteries. I have one in my FrankenPad, it still has 80% charge left, even though it is from 2006. These things are just great.

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