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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:17 am 
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I think, I have a problem with my T60p, because it randomly freezes to BIOS boot screen. The BIOS is unaccessable when the computer freezes, but the case will usually go away with a reboot or two.

But if I have external devices connected, such as USB-memorystick or USB-harddrive, the BIOS freezes at every startup. And if I wont disconnect them, the BIOS freezes continuosly.

I have updated the BIOS to the latest 79uj34us v2.27, but no help.

Could this say, that the problem is with hardware? Bad soldering somewhere on pcb, which is giving a warning signal? I have to lift my hands up, because I'm out of ideas. This kind of problem never occurred with earlier T42p. Otherwise the T60p works correctly with external devices, but they only must be removed before starting.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:27 am 
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Check your boot order in BIOS, also sometimes when USB devices are plugged in it tries to decipher them or boot from them and takes a very long time. esp if they are usb 1.0 , I faced the same with some old lexar jump drives.

If when you remove the usb devices, everything works as expected, then it is most likely not the motherboard.

Some other Bioses had a correction for Tivoli OS from usb etc. not sure if this fix caused additional problem.

Version 2.27

* (Fix) Corrected an description of UPDATING THE BIOS in this README document.
* (Fix) Fixed an issue where Tivoli OS from USB memory key might not boot.


Last edited by rssb on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:34 am 
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Yes, the HDD is first, and DVD second.

I can't see the USB devices on the boot order, because the computer won't boot with them, but I suppose, the USB-devices will be after HDD or DVD.

And all my USB devices are USB 2.0 compatible. However they seems to be idle, when the computer freezes, because their activity led is not flashing.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:38 am 
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That is one thing, they wont show up unless plugged in. And you need to have successful response ( i.e. press F12 instantaneously upon power on ) to see them. Even that would take time to respond in my case sometimes.

Do you have a fingerprint reader / or external finger print reader. May be the priority on that can be set to internal only. Just a thought.
For boot security , with finger swipe T60 and higher series are capable of using USB fingerprint reader, and by default it is the external reader which has priority.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:53 am 
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Yes, I have fingerprint reader. But I have never used it.

Maybe I should try to disconnect the mousepad + fingerprint reader common wire from motherboard. To see if that has any effect (if it is USB-functional)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Patrik:

Just a thought; have you thoroughly checked your RAM for possible malfunction? I recently had a T60 which would freeze or shut-down abruptly, and the cause turned out to be... a bad stick of RAM. I'd therefore suggest checking your RAM... use e.g. the free (and very fine!) program Memtest86+

By the way, have you tried to check the laptop using Lenovo's "PC Doctor", which has recently been replaced by ThinkVantage Toolbox? If you want to run an older version (but usable on T60's) of "PC Doctor" from a bootable CD, then grab it via Ray's post in the thread Trying to track down a copy of 1ety48ww.exe (PC-Doctor DOS).

Lenovo claim in the thread PC Doctor for DOS bootable CD that the newer ThinkVantage Toolbox also exist (also supporting T60's) as a bootable CD, but I couldn't find it... maybe you can? All I could find were the tools listed on the page Lenovo Diagnostics Software pointing to Lenovo Diagnostics (Bootable CD) - Desktops / Notebooks / Workstations / Servers which does not seem to support T6x/p's... :-(

Let's know if you find the cause and cure for this annoying problem! Good luck... :thumbs-UP:

Johan

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IBM T42p's (2373-Q1U & -Q2U): 2.1 GHz, 15" UXGA FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 128 MB FireGL T2, 128 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 am 
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The memory seems to be OK, ran memtest86 8 times, 8 passes and 0 errors.

Now it was weird, that when I used IBM USB-FDD 05K9283 to start memtest86, the BIOS didn't froze with that FDD connected.

The problem surely isn't USB-memorysticks/hdd fault, because they will work well with my other Lenovo T42p machine.
I have five different USB-memorysticks (2-8Gb): A-data, Corsair, Sandisk, OCZ, Sony and all of them causes freezing with T60p. The USB-HDD adapter is cheap chinese stuff from eBay, but because it works with T42p and few other notebooks (Fujitsu and HP models), it can be expected to be ok.

By the way, the internal HDD is not original. I have heard, that some Thinkpad models are accurate, that the HDD is with IBM/Lenovo own OEM-firmware. Is that problem with T60-models? The current Seagate Momentus HDD is fully working though.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Don't think so, my t60 uses a wd drive removed from my dead dell.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:12 am 
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I ran now the PC Doctor. There was some test failed, pointing to serial and parallel ports.

I tried to print the log-file, but I didn't know where it was saved (it wasn't on HDD). Probably the log was saved to the RAM, and disappeared at next boot.
So I photographed the log (click the thumbnails)):

Image , Image , Image , Image , Image , Image

Could the serial and parallel port errors cause BIOS freezing? I can't try if the ports are functional, because T60 does not have the ports onboard and I dont have the dock.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:17 am 
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Possible Serial and Parallel ports are disabled in BIOS, which would give those error messages.
Or if they are enabled, disable them and then do the test again on those 2.
Either way, they would not cause your BIOS to freeze.
And it's not the BIOS that freezes, it's more likely that the Southbridge has stopped functioning properly.
If yours is a 14.1" T61p, overheating could have weakened the solder contacts between Southbridge and motherboard.
See if cleaning out the fan helps, and while you're at it, replace the thermal paste with fresh Arctic Silver 5.
Try running it with the keyboard just loosely attached.

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Check out The Board Room for:
- LED-mods for the 15" T60/R60/R61
- SATA-mods for any T43/R52 with ATI GPU
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:13 am 
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Sorry, I forgot to mention that my T60p is 15" (4:3).

The cooling system was clean, I regularly use vacuum cleaner to suck dust from vent holes outside.
But now I disassembled the fan and wiped a thin dust layer from fan blades, so it is clean as new one. And put some sewing machine oil to fan axle (it had no effect to fan sound).

At the disassembly I changed the cpu paste (which was very dry, cracked like clay). GPUs and Nortbridges thermal pad was looking good (like chewing gum) and I re-used them.
However, I'm waiting a 0.8 mm thick copper shim from eBay to replace the GPU pad. The GPU runs at about 70 deg, when using only lightly internet (writing this message). At the same time CPU is 49.

It was lucky, that I saved my old T42p, because it is much better with internet use. It runs totally silent with SSD and M755 undervoltaged. T60p spins the fan more audible than the 7200 rpm HDD.

I'll do the tests again, disabling the ports.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:43 am 
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Patrik28 wrote:
It was lucky, that I saved my old T42p, because it is much better with internet use. It runs totally silent with SSD and M755 undervoltaged. T60p spins the fan more audible than the 7200 rpm HDD.

Patrik:

While I absolutely don't intend to hi-jack your thread, I cannot help asking: What specific SSD (manufacturer, model) do you have in your T42p? Is it (still?) the OWC discussed in the thread 2.5" PATA OWC Mercury Legacy Pro SSD: Performance in T42? Also, is this (T42p) SSD in the main HDD bay, or in the UltraBay? What OS are you running on the T42p... XP, Win 7 or some Linux distro?

Thanks in advance for sharing this extremely interesting info! :bow:

Johan

_________________
IBM T42p's (2373-Q1U & -Q2U): 2.1 GHz, 15" UXGA FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 128 MB FireGL T2, 128 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate
IBM T42 (2373-N1G): 1.8 GHz, 15" SXGA+ FlexView, 2 GB RAM, 64 MB Radeon 9600, 64 GB 1.8" SATA SSD, IBM a/b/g, BT, Win 7 Ultimate


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:05 am 
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The SSD is still the same (OWC Mercury Legacy Pro IDE) on main HDD bay and Win XP installed (SSD pre-partitioned by Win 7)

Actually the T42p works so well with SSD, that I cannot feel any dramatic performance increase with T60p. The main reason for buying T60p was IPS screen, but it wasn't so big experience either.
I don't know why people are appreciating IPS so much. I'll do a lot of 3D CAM/CAD drawings, so a good screen is important, but even T42p's 14.1" TN panel is good for me.
Maybe my eyes are not so sensitive.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:50 am 
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Could your problem be caused by a bad CMOS battery? They're quite cheap over eBay and are easy to replace.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:59 am 
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Patrik28 wrote:
The main reason for buying T60p was IPS screen, but it wasn't so big experience either.
I don't know why people are appreciating IPS so much. I'll do a lot of 3D CAM/CAD drawings, so a good screen is important, but even T42p's 14.1" TN panel is good for me.
Maybe my eyes are not so sensitive.

I'm sure you are aware that you can buy 15" T4x machines with IPS UXGA (1600x1200).
Especially the screens made by IDTech are superior to the BoeHydis screens as used in 15" T60 models!
IDTech has another advantage over BoeHydis: if the CCFL goes out, it takes 20-30 minutes to replace it.
After that it is as good as new!

And if you dig deep enough, you can find info to add an EDID chip to these IDTech screens, and put them in a T60.

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Check out The Board Room for:
- LED-mods for the 15" T60/R60/R61
- SATA-mods for any T43/R52 with ATI GPU
- other Services


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:07 am 
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Thanks for the tip. I'll put order for a new battery. I haven't checked the old one, but it is easy to switch, when the palmrest is open.
And the 0.8 mm copper shim arrived too, but lets now wait, until the new battery arrives. It might be not good to open the machine too often (at least the screw nylon coating wears).

Yes, I know that T4x are with 15" panels too. But I cant think of buying 15" T4x series because they are at very limit with modern 3D programs. For example, at work, I have 16 GB Ram in a desktop computer, for large assemblies. And still I use to go for a 15 min coffee break, while Catia opens the assemblies. T42p is good for single and small parts, but not much bigger.

I had my T60p originally with 1400x1050 LG-Philips lcd, and then changed to a new BOE HV150UX1-101 1600x1200 from cgsplcd-seller. They both were quite equal except the resolution.

Maybe I should buy a totally new workstation, for 2-3000€. I have struggled with memory limit also with T60p, but I don't know if new Lenovos are good anymore. Many people says that the Thinkpads value have decreased after IBM era. Should I start looking after competitors (Dell Precicion & HP Elitebook etc.)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:29 am 
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Nope, the problem continues after a new CMOS battery. The old one was still good, ~3.0 V.

But something positive appeared, when the copper plate was installed on the GPU. Its temperature lowered 3-4 degrees.
With a Thinkpad fan control app, that temp decrease helps to keep the noisy fan unrotating a little longer.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Patrik28 wrote:
Nope, the problem continues after a new CMOS battery. The old one was still good, ~3.0 V.




(Sorry for the slight hijack) Where did you buy the cmos battery? And any tips for changing the battery?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:58 pm 
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There are millions of CMOS batteries on eBay, such as this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-IBM-THINKPA ... 0272924082

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Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)

Check out The Board Room for:
- LED-mods for the 15" T60/R60/R61
- SATA-mods for any T43/R52 with ATI GPU
- other Services


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:36 am 
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Ebay ist the easiest place to find a cheap battery. I bought it from IBM/Lenovo service, but the price was much higher than on ebay.

About the tips, just open 4x screws in line under the palmrest (there is three symbols next to screw-places: IC,keyb,memory) and one holding keyboard (which is located in the manufacturer-label groove). Not hard to spot.
The battery is right under the keyboard (under space button). You can use small pliers to draw the battery connector from motherboard (the connector is sometimes quite tight).

Edit. Be very careful, when taking off the palmrest and keyboard. They are connected with very short and fragile leads. They will broke off almost with no force at all.

I already broke one keyboard lead, right next to the connector:
Image

It almost looks like Lenovo has found a potential money hole, when converted the keyboard for single assembly only. For example with T4x series, the keyboard lead and connector was much more rigid and easier to separate. Specially, when you are looking for rare keyboard-layouts, the keyboards will cost highly (about 100-150 euros).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:00 am 
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Thanks Patrik. It does not sound difficult at all. I have replaced my keyboard ($35USD eBay) myself so the battery should be easy.

Always good to hear from someone who has done it.

Thanks again.

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