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W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

W500/W510/W520 and W700/W701 Series
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RMSMajestic
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W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#1 Post by RMSMajestic » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:20 pm

Hey all W701/W701ds users,
upgrading the graphics on W701(ds) is definitely the dream for all of us.
Previously, some people have attempted, however did not succeeded, you may or may not have looked into this following thread.
http://ridingtheflow.blogspot.com/2011/ ... nd-of.html

In this post he mentioned that the W701's MXM3.0 slot has different pin-out than standard MXM3.0

Well, I think there's some other reasons after today's experiment.

My original plan was to try the HP Quadro 1000m flashed with W520's Quadro 1000m's vBIOS first, then try K2000m/K2100m with W530/W540's vBIOS, and in the end, try AMD cards such as HD7970m or R9 m390X. (Don't ask me about GTX 980m, as a T61p owner I want to pay as little money to nVIDIA as possible) Obviously, vBIOS will not be the only thing, but I just wanna keep as many variables in control as possible.

So, in the past few months I've been gathering materials for this experiment, including a Clevo P150em, a Quadro 1000m, and a spare W701's FX2800m.

And today, I tried both Quadro 1000m and FX2800m on my Clevo P150em. Good news is that the P150em boots fine with both Quadro 1000m and W701's Quadro FX2800m, suggesting that there isn't anything different with W701's MXM 3.0 pin-out, cos if there indeed is something different, I'd have already ended with a dead FX2800m or an almost dead P150em screen.(Correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Regarding RidingtheFlow's black screen issue, I suspect that screen EDID injection is needed to solve this issue. I'm gonna investigate more on this.

Thanks to RidingtheFlow's valuable experience anyway.
And who can send me a .rom image of W520's BIOS (so that I can extract the BIOS)?
I've managed to extract the vBIOS of Q1000m and Q2000m. Will flash it into a HP/DELL Q1000m board and try after Aug.15th. I know this might be just another marathon modding like the T61 T9900/QC mod
Last edited by RMSMajestic on Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (W520 BIOS wanted)

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:57 pm

Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
IBM: T23 (XP/SP3) - Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, M900 Tiny (all with W7/SP1)

RMSMajestic
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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (W520 BIOS wanted)

#3 Post by RMSMajestic » Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:58 am

Thanks. I've managed to extract the vBIOS for Q1000m and Q2000m.
Will experiment after Aug.15th
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

RogerAndOut
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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#4 Post by RogerAndOut » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:51 am

Hello RMSMajestic and all!

I've been closely following if there are updates to that topic http://ridingtheflow.blogspot.ru/2011/0 ... nd-of.html. I too have w701.

By the way, I installed HP DreamColor1 panel there - LP171WU5-TLB1 -- and can assure you, it works perfectly without any modifications, and you get a little bit better viewing angles and better max. brightness.

About the MXM upgradeability, here's some of my notes:


Latest w701 system BIOS (SBIOS) contains 4 modules when unpacked: OPROM00.rom OPROM01.rom OPROM02.rom and OPROM03.rom for video cards as they contain some strings about that.
Here is layout by files:

OPROM00.rom (Quadro 2800M 1st version)
G92 Board - b6680501
Version 62.92.A0.00.09

OPROM01.rom (Quadro 2800M 2nd version)
G92 Board - b6680502
Version 62.92.A0.00.0A

OPROM02.rom (Quadro 3800M 1st version)
G92 Board - n3p6681d
Version 62.92.B5.00.0C
HWEAG92 P668 SKU 0501 Rev A01 MXM VGA BIOS for Lenovo Nico3

OPROM03.rom (Quadro 3800M 2nd version)
G92 Board - n3p6682d
Version 62.92.B5.00.0D

In my NVIDIA Control Panel info video card is stated as 62.92.B5.00.0D
so it must use last one of files.

Just replacing modules and repacking SBIOS will be clearly insufficient.
As the checks for different video cards are hardcoded seemingly -- tried
to reverse BIOS inits with IDA Pro, but no luck yet -- that requires tons of time.

Anyway, my card Quadro FX3800M has following system ID (e.g. in Windows):
PCI/VEN_10DE&DEV_061F&SUBSYS_21A017AA in device manager

Let's find a DWORD for what we should look:
Vendor ID: 10DE
Device ID: 061F

That would be DWORD like following:
0xDE101F06

So there is one file (except these VBIOS OPROMs) that has this
value: BIOSCODE06.rom -- and the checks for video cards must
be there.

To be more sure:
Let's check for intel wifi card to test where the whitelist check is?
Mine WiFi card: VEN 8086 DEV 4238

searching for hex
0x86803842

-> it is in the same file! BIOSCODE06.rom

More notes:

1. In recently appeared (only in 2015!) schematics for W701 it is stated that module is MXM3, no notes given.
2. Yes, there are signal for whether the 2nd LCD is opened, but that goes into GPIO MXM pin which is allowed by the
standard and should not break anything.
3. 2nd LCD in 'ds' model, according to schematics, is actually a DVI-connected-external monitor
(nothing more than that) and has a hardware switch to turn off external ports if it is opened (active). So
even from that point of view there should not be super-large differences in VBIOS or MXM.

Well, that's where I'm standing on this right now. I have no 3rd party MXMs to experiment with, maybe some time later.

Hope to hear on your progress and your thoughts.

RMSMajestic
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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#5 Post by RMSMajestic » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:25 am

RogerAndOut wrote:
By the way, I installed HP DreamColor1 panel there - LP171WU5-TLB1 -- and can assure you, it works perfectly without any modifications, and you get a little bit better viewing angles and better max. brightness.
Nice finding! Maybe I should grab myself a DC1 screen :P But TBH W701's screen is better than any thinkpad screen from my point of view (in terms of color). Let's worry about GPU first :)
Latest w701 system BIOS (SBIOS) contains 4 modules when unpacked: OPROM00.rom OPROM01.rom OPROM02.rom and OPROM03.rom for video cards as they contain some strings about that.
Here is layout by files:

OPROM00.rom (Quadro 2800M 1st version)
G92 Board - b6680501
Version 62.92.A0.00.09

OPROM01.rom (Quadro 2800M 2nd version)
G92 Board - b6680502
Version 62.92.A0.00.0A

OPROM02.rom (Quadro 3800M 1st version)
G92 Board - n3p6681d
Version 62.92.B5.00.0C
HWEAG92 P668 SKU 0501 Rev A01 MXM VGA BIOS for Lenovo Nico3

OPROM03.rom (Quadro 3800M 2nd version)
G92 Board - n3p6682d
Version 62.92.B5.00.0D

In my NVIDIA Control Panel info video card is stated as 62.92.B5.00.0D
so it must use last one of files.
Having disassembled more than 6 W701/W701ds, I think add more proof to that the vBIOS inside the SBIOS is used.
I personally had a FX3800m with vBIOS version of 62.92.B0.00.0A and 0B
But since I've sold all my FX3800m, there's no way for me to remember what was exactly in nVIDIA control panel
It's also weird that my FX2800m is showing 62.92.B5.00.0C in nVIDIA control Panel


Just replacing modules and repacking SBIOS will be clearly insufficient.
As the checks for different video cards are hardcoded seemingly -- tried
to reverse BIOS inits with IDA Pro, but no luck yet -- that requires tons of time.
In fact, even if replacing and repacking is sufficient, I still reckon that the fan control won't work at all
Anyway, my card Quadro FX3800M has following system ID (e.g. in Windows):
PCI/VEN_10DE&DEV_061F&SUBSYS_21A017AA in device manager

Let's find a DWORD for what we should look:
Vendor ID: 10DE
Device ID: 061F

That would be DWORD like following:
0xDE101F06

So there is one file (except these VBIOS OPROMs) that has this
value: BIOSCODE06.rom -- and the checks for video cards must
be there.

To be more sure:
Let's check for intel wifi card to test where the whitelist check is?
Mine WiFi card: VEN 8086 DEV 4238

searching for hex
0x86803842

-> it is in the same file! BIOSCODE06.rom
So, maybe a whitelist removal could be "the on ring to rule them all"?

More notes:

1. In recently appeared (only in 2015!) schematics for W701 it is stated that module is MXM3, no notes given.
2. Yes, there are signal for whether the 2nd LCD is opened, but that goes into GPIO MXM pin which is allowed by the
standard and should not break anything.
3. 2nd LCD in 'ds' model, according to schematics, is actually a DVI-connected-external monitor
(nothing more than that) and has a hardware switch to turn off external ports if it is opened (active). So
even from that point of view there should not be super-large differences in VBIOS or MXM.

Well, that's where I'm standing on this right now. I have no 3rd party MXMs to experiment with, maybe some time later.

Hope to hear on your progress and your thoughts.
Could you please share the link to schematics?

P.S. my Clevo P150em is on a lease and I won't be able to try anything until Aug.15 th :/
P.P.S. I think we should approach our goal step by step, let alone the 2nd screen first shall we? :P
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

RogerAndOut
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#6 Post by RogerAndOut » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:36 am

So, maybe a whitelist removal could be "the on ring to rule them all"?
Well, there no 'whitelist' for whitelist puprose, but merely system bios has 4 VBIOSes in it.
At startup corresponding BIOS is loaded.
And all these 4 VBIOSes are 64kb in size. Modern VBIOSes are 128kb or even larger. So the
one option to rule them all would be mod SBIOS to call real VBIOS (which is placed on MXM GPU
itself) and then after it returns, system proceeds to continue boot.
Just stuffing some other VBIOS won't change a thing, as calls to these 4 VBIOSes are in other file
with hardcoded GPU ids (mentioned above).

I don't actually know about how fan control is arranged. Maybe its ruled from SBIOS just by measuring GPU temp,
so until sensor/some intrinsics change (e.g. AMD card or maybe recent NVIDIAs have different temp reporting interface),
fan control should not be a concern. The problem is to get system to boot with an other MXM GPU (that WOULD require
BIOS patching), other concerns are solveable.

Oh, and I have read not long ago that new NVidias those like crazily expensive GTX980 and all upcoming cards will disable all acceleration if they detect modified VBIOS :)

Please, PM me your email I will send you schem. cause as far as I remember, posting links or even fragments of schematics
here is prohibited. Maybe we should ask some honored Thinkpad modding gurus (leokim and other guys) to help with the
SBIOS to arrange call to VBIOS during init (that may be hard, but should be doable, unfortunately, I have no big experience in disassembly).

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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#7 Post by FryPpy » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:55 pm

Have subscribed to this topic and wating more info.

But now i am wating W701 and when it arrives may be i'll need more help from RogerAndOut.

PS
Have DC-1 mod in mind and it is good to know that it can be done easy.

RMSMajestic
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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#8 Post by RMSMajestic » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:29 am

RogerAndOut wrote: Well, there no 'whitelist' for whitelist puprose, but merely system bios has 4 VBIOSes in it.
At startup corresponding BIOS is loaded.
And all these 4 VBIOSes are 64kb in size. Modern VBIOSes are 128kb or even larger. So the
one option to rule them all would be mod SBIOS to call real VBIOS (which is placed on MXM GPU
itself) and then after it returns, system proceeds to continue boot.
Just stuffing some other VBIOS won't change a thing, as calls to these 4 VBIOSes are in other file
with hardcoded GPU ids (mentioned above).
Okay a few months later, I was about to start. And it turned out that I was a bit wrong a few month ago.
the Quadro 1000m failed to boot on my P150em, in BIOS it says VGA card as N/A and beeps for 30s to 1 min as it start, I was able to see the BIOS screen, it even entered desktop but not for long before shutdown and therefore I wasnt able to flash the W520 Quadro 1000m vBIOS to it. The Quadro 1000m is a DELL version
The good news is, that W701's FX3800m boots fine, entered the OS and device manager saw the device. I didn't tried to install the drivers cos I doubt nVIDIA made support for old card like FX3800m.

I've tried HD7970m and that Quadro 1000m on W701, no boots, but the HD7970m warms up a bit
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#9 Post by jdrou » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:46 pm

RMSMajestic wrote:I didn't tried to install the drivers cos I doubt nVIDIA made support for old card like FX3800m.
FX3800M is still supported in recent drivers 341.92:
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverRe ... 4540/en-us
(Looks like this is the last one though.)
Current Thinkpads:
X31, X40, X61T, X61, X201, X220 (i7 IPS), W520 (FHD), T440p (FHD),
T480 (QHD)
Dells: Latitude C840, Precision M70, Precision M4400, M6400 (WUXGA), M6600, M6700, 7730, XPS 13
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RMSMajestic
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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#10 Post by RMSMajestic » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:07 pm

jdrou wrote:
RMSMajestic wrote:I didn't tried to install the drivers cos I doubt nVIDIA made support for old card like FX3800m.
FX3800M is still supported in recent drivers 341.92:
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverRe ... 4540/en-us
(Looks like this is the last one though.)
Problem is if optimus works or not.
I can't disable the iGPU in P150em, as iGPU is needed for display output
Now I need to determine if it's the compatibility problem or the problem with the Quadro 1000m itself
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

RMSMajestic
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Re: W701 GPU upgrade discussions (guinea pig wanted)

#11 Post by RMSMajestic » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:47 am

Okay just got a Dell M6700, tried to plug in the Q1000m, and it's not seen in system. So I think I it's highly possible that I had a faulty MXM card in the first place......
might get a second hand M4600 and try......

Read some interesting articles on notebook review
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads ... 0m.558972/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads ... 045/page-9

lenovo MXM cards will work fine on the other laptops (as long as the laptop accepts lenovo cards)
So if the system locks out on the other cards, will the M600m or M5000m from the newly released P70 work on W701.

And another question remains:
How does W701 check for Lenovo cards? Through vBIOS or soem electrical signals?
I hope someone can figure that out
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

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