X61t, SXGA+, what is the sparkly?

[nikemen]

X61t, SXGA+, what is the sparkly?

So, I received this machine, love it, but, I think I am going to get a MV/MT version, I can just see myself using the MT more than I thought. Little things, hitting web links, drawing on the screen for markup, scrolling on web pages, etc.

But, while I THOUGHT I wanted SXGA for the resolution, I quickly needed to change the DPI in order to get comfortable using the screen. 96 DPI, SXGA was just a bit small, I had to work a bit at it (granted, I’m nearly 40, but with 20/10 vision) regardless, at 120 DPI I am basically BACK to XGA almost. WHY have SXGA then.

But, one other issue comes up about this screen. The “sparkly” I know many have commented on it here and in other forums, what IS it exactly and is there a way to avoid it in the future? Is it present in the XGA MT/MV screens? What it does for me, is LOWER contrast and seemingly lower brightness? I don’t know if that is a function of the Superview SXGA+, or some sort of protective coating? I don’t want to go BACK to glossy for anything at ALL, that gives me Terets! (sp)

But, when I compare this screen, to my three year old T43, 14” XGA, the later seems brighter and a bit crisper, more pleasing to the eye to sit and look at. THAT is what I want. Oh how I wish to love thee, but you will be replaced.

Any thoughts?

[proaudioguy]

But, when I compare this screen, to my three year old T43, 14” XGA, the later seems brighter and a bit crisper, more pleasing to the eye to sit and look at. THAT is what I want. Oh how I wish to love thee, but you will be replaced.

Any thoughts?

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say sparkly.

I have an X32 that is far brighter than the X60 T, but the viewing angle has to be straight on. I went into the intel control panel to color correction and slightly increased the contrast and brightness. When I say slightly, I mean, very slightly. I also got rid of some of the warmth, by bringing in a tiny bit of blue. The factory settings might be dead on accurate, but the grays on this page looked too warm to me, and the blues looked dull and dark.

[freddy418]

X61t, SXGA+, what is the sparkly?

But, one other issue comes up about this screen. The “sparkly” I know many have commented on it here and in other forums, what IS it exactly and is there a way to avoid it in the future? Is it present in the XGA MT/MV screens? What it does for me, is LOWER contrast and seemingly lower brightness? I don’t know if that is a function of the Superview SXGA+, or some sort of protective coating? I don’t want to go BACK to glossy for anything at ALL, that gives me Terets! (sp)

Any thoughts?

the "sparkly" or "shimmering" is a byproduct of the anti-glaring coating technology on thinkpad LCD's, there is no user fix to reduce it.

[nikemen]

So, is this indicative of ALL thinkpads and tablets, or just the SXGA+ versions?

I hate the fact that one cannot FIND them really anywhere these days.

[ryengineer]

So, is this indicative of ALL thinkpads and tablets, or just the SXGA+ versions?.....snip

Flexview displays only and it varies from display to display. All IPS displays in my experience has sparkle effect to some extent.

[nikemen]

so, the SXGA+, which is listed as Superview, is that Flexview?

[ryengineer]

so, the SXGA+, which is listed as Superview, is that Flexview?

Yes, Super Wide Angle FFS (AFFS) is an extention of IPS.

FFS (IPS)

The FFS (Fringe Field Switching) technology is patented by BOE-Hydis LCD manufacturing company and extends conventional IPS technology by offering even wider viewing angles (full 180 degrees are claimed) and better transmittance.

[pibach]

X61t, SXGA+, what is the sparkly?

nikem, I agree and felt as well quite surprised at least when I received my s61t SXGA+.
I think it is a combination of surface hardening plus wide angle view coating. Its a simple tradeoff. As far as I know all tablet suffer from this issue more or less. Anyway I really enjoy the resolution. Text is sharper even if you need to zoom in a bit. I just set fonts to 10pt (default is 9pt) and kept the DPI settings as is. Gives the best results. In Firefox I use NoSquint at a default of 140% zoom. Would not go back to XGA. But a non-tablet x61s with SXGA+ would be appealing...

[proaudioguy]

Are you guys talking about the coating on the screen to make the inking feel more like pen to paper? I seen nothing "sparkly" about it. When I think sparkly, I think of a jewel.

[dr_st]

Are you guys talking about the coating on the screen to make the inking feel more like pen to paper? I seen nothing "sparkly" about it. When I think sparkly, I think of a jewel.

I think they are referring to the widely known sparkle effect of IPS panels: homogenous color does not seem smooth, but shining with many little crystals, particularly noticeable on bright colors. While most people are not bothered by this effect, some are extremely sensitive. There've been a number of threads on this effect on the forums.

[pibach]

dr_st, yes you seem to be rigth. There is a sparkle due to the RGB-pixelation of brigth colors. Aditionally there is the coating which diffuses the light, propably also to give the pen some resistance. It is a very strange effect to look at. You can get used to it. Or you can hate it. But I can't imagine people to overlook it. Maybe those who run a 30" cinema display on WXGA+ resolution without ever noticing?

[proaudioguy]

I'm looking through the smudged scratched up Tablet case that came with it. No resistance to ink at all, but you get used to it. Now that you describe the sparkle, I can't see it at all.

[DavidNY]

I thought the sparkly was from the mesh for the stylus. I'm not wild about it on my X61t, but I treat it as a character trait.

[pibach]

I thought the sparkly was from the mesh for the stylus.

No.
With the resistive touch there are 2 layers in front of the LCD but the active Wacom digitizer actually is behind the LCD. Therefore it does not interfere with the visibility and the screen is approx 15% brighter than the resistive configuration. On the other hand this setup implies some deviation of the pen/digitizer due to electrical interference.

[DavidNY]

I thought it was for the digitizer as none of my other Thinkpads have the sparkly, and none of them are tablets. Maybe its something else.

[pibach]

Yeah, David, this is what I thought too until I figured out that digitizer is completely behind the LCD and therefore has zero effect here. But, as mentioned, the sparkly is due to the IPS technologie (fine RGP pixelation) plus the coating. The coating is tablet specific to achieve better viewing angles I guess. And there is a thick layer of glass (?) over the LCD to protect it. And also the surface is hardened to withstand the pen scratches. All togehter this difuses the backlight and also might impose some refraction of RGB. And it also reflects some evironmental light resulting in what some call a sparkly effect. But it is more like a 3D holographic picture. It gave me quite a bit of irritation as my eyes could not focus on the right layer, the LCD or the surface. But you can get used to it.

[DavidNY]

OK, thanks for the clarification.

[crashnburn]

Are you guys talking about the coating on the screen to make the inking feel more like pen to paper? I seen nothing "sparkly" about it. When I think sparkly, I think of a jewel.

I think they are referring to the widely known sparkle effect of IPS panels: homogenous color does not seem smooth, but shining with many little crystals, particularly noticeable on bright colors. While most people are not bothered by this effect, some are extremely sensitive. There've been a number of threads on this effect on the forums.

I hate this sparkly effect. I finally got a chance to open up my new X61T thats been untouched since i got it.

Is this standard on all X61T's? Is it excessive on some and more bearable on others?

PC Wizard shows this for the screen - What about yours? :

General Information :
Manufacturer : HV121P01-101
Product ID : LEN4005
Manufacture : 2006
Video Input Type : Digital in 0.7/0.3v
Max. Horiz./Vert. Size : 25 cm / 18 cm
Monitor Size : 12 inches (estimated)
Aspect Ratio : 5:4
Gamma Factor : 2.2
DPMS Active-Off : Yes
DPMS Suspend : Yes
DPMS Standby : Yes
EDID version : 1.3

Features :
Maximum Resolution : 1400 x 1050 @ 50 Hz

Video Modes Supported :
Mode : 720 x 400 @ 70 Hz
Mode : 640 x 480 @ 75 Hz
Mode : 1024 x 768 @ 87 Hz interlaced

Video Modes Standard :
Mode : 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz

[pianowizard]

I think they are referring to the widely known sparkle effect of IPS panels

I hate this sparkly effect.

dr_st, only the X61 tablet's IPS screen has this problem. None of the 15.0" T-/R-/A-series SXGA+/UXGA/QXGA IPS screens I've seen are like that. crashnburn, I too hate this effect very much. I bought an X61t last December thinking it would be a good upgrade for my HP nc2400 but I just couldn't stand the sparkly screen. I actually preferred the HP's screen despite its lower res (1280x800) and its being cheap TN. I sold the X61t after owning it for just several weeks.

But, when I compare this screen, to my three year old T43, 14” XGA, the later seems brighter and a bit crisper, more pleasing to the eye to sit and look at.

I agree. Similar to my HP, your T43 has a cheap TN screen, which is often considered "crappy" on this forum, but I still find it more tolerable than the tablet's SXGA+ display.

I cannot emphasize this enough: Get the X61t SXGA+ only if you need a tablet; don't get it just because you want a high-res screen on an ultraportable laptop. And this tablet isn't really that light anyway. With an 8-cell battery, it weighs something like 4.3 lbs. If I want SXGA+, I would rather get a 14.1" T series. Quite a bit heavier (4.8 lbs without optical drive), but at least it has a halfway decent screen.

BTW, I had an X41t briefly and its XGA screen was also sparkly, though I think it was a little less sparkly than the SXGA+ X61t.

[Geary]

I have an X41 Tablet, an X60 Tablet, and an X61 Tablet. The 60/61 both have SXGA+ displays, and the 41, of course, is just XGA. I can confirm that neither the X41 Tablet nor the X60 Tablet suffer from the sparkly effect that the X61 Tablet has.

My T60p with UXGA IPS and A31p's with UXGA IPS do not suffer from the problem either.

In the TABOOKs, the X61 Tablet is described as having a "direct bonding panel (SuperView) for improved outdoor viewability". The X60 Tablet does not have this description.

My guess is that this "outdoor viewability" treatment is what causes the sparkles. It really doesn't help that much with outdoor viewing anyway.

The X61 Tablet display also picks up hand oils like crazy - it makes a smeary mess if you touch the thing. Bad idea for a Tablet PC! This doesn't happen with the X41t and X60t.

If I swapped the X60 Tablet's display onto the X61 Tablet, I would have the perfect machine.

[crashnburn]

I have an X41 Tablet, an X60 Tablet, and an X61 Tablet. The 60/61 both have SXGA+ displays, and the 41, of course, is just XGA. I can confirm that neither the X41 Tablet nor the X60 Tablet suffer from the sparkly effect that the X61 Tablet has.

My T60p with UXGA IPS and A31p's with UXGA IPS do not suffer from the problem either.

In the TABOOKs, the X61 Tablet is described as having a "direct bonding panel (SuperView) for improved outdoor viewability". The X60 Tablet does not have this description.

My guess is that this "outdoor viewability" treatment is what causes the sparkles. It really doesn't help that much with outdoor viewing anyway.

The X61 Tablet display also picks up hand oils like crazy - it makes a smeary mess if you touch the thing. Bad idea for a Tablet PC! This doesn't happen with the X41t and X60t.

If I swapped the X60 Tablet's display onto the X61 Tablet, I would have the perfect machine.

Ah Geary! This was a little tidbit that did not come to light. I guess something like this should be stickied here on the X6x forums so people know. I mostly assumed that no such issues / differences occur between them.

[lindycogito]

Hi, is the sparkling effect that you are referring to on the SXGA+ some kind of 'white noise' that is more apparent on the whites, as if the surface was a bit frosted? I bought the X61t SXGA+ on ebay as it is discontinued and they are not planning to have a higher resolution screen for the X200 tablet... I was really interested in the bigger screen estate. I just received it today, and was extremely disappointed by this 'frosty' look of the display, which makes letters not appear as sharp or smooth as on the display of my X60t multitouch screen (for the same size). Am I in the category of people who are annoyed by the 'sparkle', or is there something wrong with my screen? I have 7 days to return it if I am not satisfied... I really wanted a SXGA+, but I am not sure if I can handle this fuzziness. I am surprised that a lot of people online don't seem to mind it at all...

Here is cropping of pictures taken with my digital camera comparing the X60t XGA multitouch with the X61t SXGA+ screen.
You can see on the picture of the left (lower resolution screen) the clear regular pixel pattern. On the picture on the right, the white appears less regular, with what seems to my eye some kind of 'white noise' like you could see on old TV screen when you had no signal... The higher resolution should make the letters appear sharper (which seem to be the case on the picture), but this 'sparkling' effect actually screws things up...

My guess is that there is no way I can get a SXGA+ without this problem? I notice a similar effect on the Toshiba tablet PC of my friend. I wish I could combine the nice smooth appearance of my X60t with the higher resolution...

[AvalonXIII]

The effect exists on my computer as well. There's nothing you can do about it. However, if I leave it at a moderate distance away from me, I barely notice the sparkly effect anymore. The SXGA+ screen in the X61t is the last best screen you can get with high resolution, so you should learn to accept the "defect."

[lindycogito]

Hi, thanks for corroborating my experience and confirming it is not a screen defect. I actually reconciled with the screen when I did a test outside in the sun and saw that the display of the X61t superview was a lot clearer outdoor than my X60t, even though the latter has the 'outdoor' feature (not as the standard XGA). So maybe this 'sparkling' effect is for something, at least.

And after using it for a while, I *really* like the extra screen estate, so I am glad I got it. And funny enough, I think I am starting to like Vista as well (much better tablet experience and actually seems faster than XP for now - though I need to figure out how to turn off all those annoying warning messages).

[AvalonXIII]

Hi, thanks for corroborating my experience and confirming it is not a screen defect. I actually reconciled with the screen when I did a test outside in the sun and saw that the display of the X61t superview was a lot clearer outdoor than my X60t, even though the latter has the 'outdoor' feature (not as the standard XGA). So maybe this 'sparkling' effect is for something, at least.

And after using it for a while, I *really* like the extra screen estate, so I am glad I got it. And funny enough, I think I am starting to like Vista as well (much better tablet experience and actually seems faster than XP for now - though I need to figure out how to turn off all those annoying warning messages).

Those messages come from Vista UAC, here's how to disable them:
http://www.petri.co.il/disable_uac_in_windows_vista.htm
Use method 4 in that guide.

[meumar]

I had an old LG notebook w/ an IPS screen (about 5 years ago) & it had the sparkly effect too. It bothered me initially (I actually exchanged the computer b/c I thought it was a defect, but the one I exchanged it for had the same thing) but then I got used to it.

[IvanAndreevich]

I'd like to post an update on this topic. So I just had a X60T with an old screen which was dying serviced under warranty.

Guess what? The new screen is FREAKING AWESOME! It has minimal graininess, compared to my X61T. And I mean it's barely noticeable. The white is very uniform with no areas of pink / cyan tints. It's simply incredible.

The part number they used is 93P5607.

[crashnburn]

I'd like to post an update on this topic. So I just had a X60T with an old screen which was dying serviced under warranty.

Guess what? The new screen is FREAKING AWESOME! It has minimal graininess, compared to my X61T. And I mean it's barely noticeable. The white is very uniform with no areas of pink / cyan tints. It's simply incredible.

The part number they used is 93P5607.

Thanks for update. How did you find out the Part number?

[IvanAndreevich]

Thanks for update. How did you find out the Part number?

Well, I took it apart, of course! Just kidding I looked online at the service ticket - it was in the list of parts serviced.