15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) Display (95% Gamut, 270nit) ICM FILE

[thinkpad_user88]

Ordered T520 with 15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) Display (95% Gamut, 270nit). The display is very clear and detailed, but color rendering is not as natural as iPhone. Using iPhone took a picture and the color of it shown on the iPhone is much closer to real color compared with it shown on T520 FHD display after copying the file to T520.

I have tried to install ICM files coming with Monitor package version 4.36 downloaded from Lenovo website, but they did not improve the color rendering.

Someone on another thread pointed out that the ICM files were for non-FHD or non-95% Gamut display.

Was wondering whether anyone here having better success and would appreciate some help.

TIA.

[redhook]

The iPhone has an IPS display, the FHD screen is LCD. A cheap IPS panel has much better color reproduction than even the best LCD displays on the market. Laws of physics and all that.

[Puppy]

It is TN panel which is the worst and oldest LCD panel technology on the market. It can not have any good color representation by design. Lenovo no longer makes workstation notebook models with better LCD panel technology (IPS or PVA). The last model was T60p. Although there are 15.6" HP and Dell models with IPS panels available.

All these gamut numbers does not make any sense if the TN panel technology is used. It is just stupid marketing fluff. Even cheapest IPS or PVA panel with "worse" gamut will look significantly better, colors and contrast will be more stable from different viewing angle. Lenovo no longer cares about display quality in workstation models. The only current ThinkPad with acceptable display quality is X220.

As for all these abbrevations:
- FHD is abbrevation for display resolution 1920x1080 pixels. It does not have anything with technology or quality of the panel
- TN, MVA and IPS are LCD panel technologies. The LCD technology has the biggest impact on display quality. IPS and PVA panels have far better quality than TN.
- LED is backlight technology regardless of LCD panel technology is used. Currently there are CCFL and LED backlight. It has almost zero impact on notebook display quality.

For example, a marketing ad "15.6" FHD LED display" does not explicitly say anything about the qaulity because manufacturers usually try to hide the most important information - the LCD technology (TN / IPS / PVA) used. So you can assume it is TN panel with LED backlight. When the panel technology is TN, no other marketing features like "LED", "RGB LED" or "1000% color gamut" can improve the poor display quality you are experiencing. The same is for an ICM profile because the outdated TN technology simply can not provide good quality. Sorry.

There are marketing names for non-TN notebook displays like "FlexView" (used by IBM in older ThinkPads for IPS panels) or "DreamColor" (used by HP for IPS panels).

[Colonel O'Neill]

Yes, FHD is technically a reference to 1920x1080, but in the context of T520/W520 ThinkPads, it is equivalent to an abbreviation for the TN, 95% display gamut, LED-backlit, matte, FHD display panel found therein.

Also false is your claim that backlighting has no visible impact on quality. Have you heard of the color spectrum by any chance?

The claim that IPS outranks TN in all cases by default is totally untrue. Sure, on average, an IPS panel will be better than a TN panel, and yes, by physics, the IPS will have very stable viewing angles compared to the TN. The FHD display (also known as the "TN, 95% display gamut, LED-backlit, matte, FHD display panel found in the T520/W520) is nothing to laugh at. Weighing in at 95% color gamut, it far outranks the 60-65% color gamut of the X220 IPS display.

Might I also mention that the X220 IPS screen is known for it's backlight bleed and ghosting?

Thus ends my rant. Also way to raise a four month old post, guys.

[Puppy]

Also false is your claim that backlighting has no visible impact on quality. Have you heard of the color spectrum by any chance?

Yes, but for notebook displays there is very little difference between CCFL and LED backlight. LED backlight (especially when used with horrible TN panel) is simply overrated and overhyped. Most of professional desktop monitors still rely on W-CCFL (wide gamut CCFL) rather than LED backlight because of color spectrum stability and uniformity. Top monitors like NEC or Eizo includes technologies to improve the backlight uniformity (NEC X-Light, Eizo DUE). None of these technologies are available for notebook panels because of its complexity and power consumption.

If you need a display device for serious graphics work you still have to buy a professional desktop monitor (NEC or Eizo, office-like monitors HP, Dell etc. are 2nd class). I think that all the hunting for "better gamut" on notebook displays is simple a wish to get decent notebook display which looks nice. If you compare T520 display side-by-side to T60p UXGA FlexView one, it is clear the T60p is winner. No one will ever ask what gamut the T60p panel has It looks much better at first glance, period.

Might I also mention that the X220 IPS screen is known for it's backlight bleed and ghosting?

The backlight bleed is caused by the fancy LED backlight (CCFL would probably deliver better results but wait ... no LED hype ) and the ghosting was fixed by the new revision of the panel. It has never been explained what they changed but my personal guess is that they overdo the overdrive level in first revision to get better response time. It has similar symptoms and unfortunately makes permanent damage of the panel if used for a long time.

Weighing in at 95% color gamut, it far outranks the 60-65% color gamut of the X220 IPS display.

Depends very on viewing angle. If you are just few degrees off, the magic has gone. Even trying to display single color to look uniform on the TN panel surface fails. That's why it is useless to hunt color gamut on TN panel. But the marketing number costs nothing and the crappy product is sold over and over

Since the X220 IPS panel is very likely e-IPS, both panels are 6bit only. Considering them for graphics work is ridiculous. So we end up with the criteria "which display looks better at first glance". I bet the X220 wins even with "worse" gamut That's the story.

I'm still wondering what marketing strategy is behind offering crappy displays in top workstation models while 7 years ago was not problem to deliver much better product. We are not talking about new and expensive technology. There are e-IPS based desktop monitors available for very good price these days.

[Colonel O'Neill]

LED backlight (especially when used with horrible TN panel) is simply overrated and overhyped.

I'm not sure what the two have to do with each other here.

The backlight bleed is caused by the fancy LED backlight (CCFL would probably deliver better results but wait ... no LED hype ) and the ghosting was fixed by the new revision of the panel. It has never been explained what they changed but my personal guess is that they overdo the overdrive level in first revision to get better response time. It has similar symptoms and unfortunately makes permanent damage of the panel if used for a long time.

Are you claiming pixel overdrive and LED backlighting causes backlight bleed?

Depends very on viewing angle. If you are just few degrees off, the magic has gone. Even trying to display single color to look uniform on the TN panel surface fails. That's why it is useless to hunt color gamut on TN panel. But the marketing number costs nothing and the crappy product is sold over and over

Fair, but the viewable cone on the W520 is not that small (vertically it shifts a bit). The more gamut one has, the better, though.

Since the X220 IPS panel is very likely e-IPS, both panels are 6bit only. Considering them for graphics work is ridiculous. So we end up with the criteria "which display looks better at first glance". I bet the X220 wins even with "worse" gamut That's the story.

Yes both are 6-bit, and dithering is quite apparent. I have yet to see an X220 IPS screen myself, but I would bet on a properly calibrated W520.

I'm still wondering what marketing strategy is behind offering crappy displays in top workstation models while 7 years ago was not problem to deliver much better product. We are not talking about new and expensive technology. There are e-IPS based desktop monitors available for very good price these days.

Blame the consumers. They couldn't care less. They're the reason everyone caved into the widescreen trend too.

[Puppy]

Are you claiming pixel overdrive and LED backlighting causes backlight bleed?

The LED backlight usually causes backlight bleed because the LED backlight technology is still subpar to CCFL backlight.It isn't a rule but you can find more LED backlight panels with the issue than CCFL.

The (excessive use of) overdrive causes ghosting effects and persistent image issues (known for the first revision of X220 display). That's why you can turn it off on professional monitors where it is not recommended to use it in general because it might cause permanent damage to the panel (when used for a long time, reference http://www.behardware.com/articles/615- ... mages.html).

My guess is that in the first revision of X220 panel they overdo the overdrive level to get better response time on paper specification. Lets say 8 ms instead of 12 ms. While majority of customers probably wouldn't notice the difference between 8 and 12 ms, a lot of them noticed the side-effect in form of excessive image persistence. It is just speculation, I don't have any proof for it. You can apply it for a 'IPS + 65% color gamut' versus 'TN + 95% color gamut' discussion. I still bet more customers would complain that the latter combination looks uglier, even properly calibrated.

On the other hand the contrast ratio of the T520 FHD TN panel is very good (670:1) for these days. Especially compared to Lenovo's "funny" 98:1 on T400.

[erik]

My guess is that in the first revision of X220 panel they overdo the overdrive level to get better response time on paper specification.

i can say first-hand that it was a physical change in the hardware and had nothing to do with overdrive.   i can't be too specific but it came down to spacing between various physical layers.

You can apply it for a 'IPS + 65% color gamut' versus 'TN + 95% color gamut' discussion. I still bet more customers would complain that the latter combination looks uglier, even properly calibrated.

with both an IPS X220 and TN FHD W510 at my immediate disposal, i can absolutely agree that the X220's panel is much easier to work on in color-critical applications despite the limited gamut.   sadly, my X220 is my portable workstation and the W510 collects dust as a result.   i save heavy lifting (CAD, rendering, pre-press, etc.) for the thinkstation.

anyway, carry on...

[Puppy]

i can say first-hand that it was a physical change in the hardware and had nothing to do with overdrive.   i can't be too specific but it came down to spacing between various physical layers.

Thanks ! I was wondering what exactly has been changed. Lack of information always leads to various false speculations

i can absolutely agree that the X220's panel is much easier to work on in color-critical applications despite the limited gamut.

As expected

[k5552]

with both an IPS X220 and TN FHD W510 at my immediate disposal, i can absolutely agree that the X220's panel is much easier to work on in color-critical applications despite the limited gamut.   sadly, my X220 is my portable workstation and the W510 collects dust as a result.   i save heavy lifting (CAD, rendering, pre-press, etc.) for the thinkstation.

anyway, carry on...

@erik,

Would appreciate if you could let me know what are the color critical applications you use on the x220. I am considering using the x220 with Adobe Lightroom.

[erik]

apologies for not seeing this sooner.   when working in color i use adobe CS5 design apps, lightroom (albeit limited these days), and various autodesk products.

keep in mind that i never, ever work with pre-press files on any notebook and recommend against it.   you'll need a calibrated external graphics display if color is of absolute importance.